The Power of 2119 and Future

[steelthunder814]

arctus said:

I view "the game" as having three components.

1. The rules, which consist of the rulebook that came with my original purchase plus stuff that is introduced in the various game editions, like specialty matches, rules for managers, and Splatter's Lottery Chart.

I consider myself a purist when it comes to the rules. I won't even introduce a specialty match in my Fed until it gets introduced in a game edition. The only deviation I make from the official rules (as they stand in 2097) is to lower a champions' pin rating by 1 to help reduce turnover of the belts.

2. The wrestlers. I have never changed one, and would never consider changing the stats of a wrestler in my GWF Fed. I don't use bootlegs. Everyone debuts and retires as indicated in the game editions.

I have toyed with the idea of creating a spinoff Fed which examines what happened to the wrestlers that got exiled during War Games (Vanity, Mayhem, Death Masque, etc.). I envision a second rate Fed signing some of the exiles to attempt to "compete" with the GWF. If I ever go through with this I would certainly introduce bootlegs and would possibly introduce some of the GWF wrestlers into this Fed prior to making their GWF debut (Kati seems like a good candidate for this). I wouldn't be able to bring myself to alter the stats of any of the GWF wrestlers though. It would just feel wrong. Whatever I did would have to be fully consistant with the official GWF storyline though (the Fed would probably collapse when the exiles returned to the GWF)..

3. The story. Each game edition is another chapter to my GWF Fed. The game edition provides the plot, but doesn't provide an ending. I leave it to the dice to write that ending for me. I strictly follow the rosters and teams as they are presented in the game edition, and I always keep the storyline feuds intact for the full year. Its just that sometimes the dice push me in an interesting direction and I run with it.

The best example I have relates to my tag team situation in my Fed's early years. The Greek Gods dominated the first three years of my Fed, holding the belts for practically all of that time. The Gladiators underperformed for me until their 2090 upgrade. When Billy Jo Boxer joined my Fed, Titan Power quickly climbed the ranks. I had a stretch of time where where The Greek Gods were losing a ton of title matches by DQ (it wasn't planned, it was the will of the dice), and Titan Power was head and shoulders above the rest of the field (They just destroyed the Gladiators and anyon else I threw at them but couldn't win the big one cleanly). This set off one of my Fed's all time best feuds between the two. The Greek Gods were heels. When Proteus got DQ'ed he would smirk, shrug his shoulders and make a big show about retrieving his belt and attaching it around his waist before exiting the ring. Actagon was much more intense. When he got DQ'ed it was because he basically snapped in the middle of the match. Titan Power were the faces that always came up short (until they eventually won the belts and quickly dropped them to the Gladiators in 2090). Once this happened I dropped the storyline with the Greek Gods "coming to their senses" and apologizing to the Titans.

I guess my whole point in all of this is that I'm strict with the rules and stats, but a little bit flexible with the storylines if the dice push me in a certain direction.

I don't consider it my place to critique how others run their Fed. I made my decisions on how to run my Fed because I thought it would allow me the best chance to experience the GWF (and eventually the CPC and aCe) they way their respective authors intended.

you bring up very valid points, I am of the school of thought that if you arent flexible then, you fed becomes boring, i love using booters, specialty matches and any thing i see fit to enhance my fed. My champion's pin rating lowers by 3 then 2 then 1 in order to keep my title changes normal, i do tourneys, team challenges, anything to make my fed as good as i can!!!

[stephenvegas]

jefft said:

swarm said:

House rules are things like rolling DQ twice, not changing the stats on the gamecards.

Did you read the part where he wrote "As for tweaking stuff, I'm a purist. I would never change anything on a playing card..."

Hey, it's your game. If you want to play it wrong, that's fine.

Eh, don't see the difference. As I said before, I think house rules like the one you mention affect game balance and match outcomes at the least the same amount, if not more, than a few card tweaks. Still don't, and probably never will, understand why one element is such a problem. Also, please make up my mind...as much as you respond so defiantly to my statements it sure doesn't seem 'fine' that I play my game 'wrong'.

I think one difference between using one or two house rules and going so far as to alter actual card statistics is consistency. For example, if you have a house rule that requires the current champion to roll his PIN twice before losing his title, that does not really alter the game so much because if you are requiring WHOEVER is your champion to roll their PIN twice. But when you decide you want to change stats on some of your cards, then you are really altering the game's dynamics.

Also, for discussion board purposes, once you announce that you alter card stats it is really hard to follow your fed results or even to follow comments you make about your fed. For example, maybe Reptillo pinned Thantos in your fed. It is hard for the reader to understand if this is even noteworthy in your fed where you have changed wrestlers stats around because perhaps you upgraded Reptillo or really downgraded Thantos.

[theace4ever]

what does it matter to anyone else what someone does in their own fed? It's not like the person is trying to force his own way of doing things onto anyone else, if so then I could see what the point of this tired thread would be... other than that if's just a clash of opinions that no one is going to win. *shrugs*

[thefamoustommyz]

theace4ever said:

what does it matter to anyone else what someone does in their own fed? It's not like the person is trying to force his own way of doing things onto anyone else, if so then I could see what the point of this tired thread would be... other than that if's just a clash of opinions that no one is going to win. *shrugs*

I'm with Ken.

Does it REALLY matter to you enough that you have to form the GWF Rules Task Force to make sure that everyone in the privacy of their own home is playing with unmodified cards or with the advanced rules or anything else?

His BadWrongFun isn't affecting your fun any and arguing incessantly that he's doing it "wrong" just makes you sound like guys who are taking an imaginary card game way too seriously.

swarm said:

It's a paper card wrestling game people. Lighten up.

[butters]

jefft said:

swarm said:

Whew...am I glad I wasn't the one who had to say it...

See Tom, here's the thing...

I know you have been writing this game for longer than a lot of the people here have been alive...and that's cool...

and I know you have written over 30 successful game editions, followed that up with several successful sister editions like Classics, aCe, CPC, and others...

and I know the game has produced Galacticon, which is going on like 13 or 14 years now, drawing people from all over America to meet in one town and play your game...

and that's fine too, but here's the thing...

you're doing it wrong.

I'm just glad I wasn't the one who had to say it.

jefft > Tom 4-life

Is this always how you and Gatekeeper make your points? Are you two ten years old or something???

As recently as this week I praised Tom highly more than once about the game and the upcoming edition. If you're going to rag on somebody like you're back in grade school, at least get your facts straight...it will keep your foot out of your mouth.

I'd like to make it very well known that this is precisely how these two make their points. And they have never worried much about putting their feet in their mouth. Sorry that you had to deal with them.

[Matt]

butters said:

jefft said:

Is this always how you and Gatekeeper make your points? Are you two ten years old or something???

As recently as this week I praised Tom highly more than once about the game and the upcoming edition. If you're going to rag on somebody like you're back in grade school, at least get your facts straight...it will keep your foot out of your mouth.

I'd like to make it very well known that this is precisely how these two make their points. And they have never worried much about putting their feet in their mouth. Sorry that you had to deal with them.

*yawn*

[gatekeeper]

butters said:

I'd like to make it very well known that this is precisely how these two make their points. And they have never worried much about putting their feet in their mouth. Sorry that you had to deal with them.

Whatever.

If it doesn't matter what he does in his fed, why does he care so much about what we say? You could make that argument either way. And we would put reasons as to why we disagreed with it. Does it affect us, no, of course not. But believe it or not we have the right to disagree with people too. Not saying he's a bad guy.

Steven Vegas' post was great. Please refer to that. He summed up our basic point perfectly.

[bmurderh8s]

I cant believe someone said that he was playing the game the "wrong" way.

I can't wait to completely botch Thantos's stats!;-)

lol

[ThePunisher]

gatekeeper said:

butters said:

I'd like to make it very well known that this is precisely how these two make their points. And they have never worried much about putting their feet in their mouth. Sorry that you had to deal with them.

Whatever.

If it doesn't matter what he does in his fed, why does he care so much about what we say? You could make that argument either way. And we would put reasons as to why we disagreed with it. Does it affect us, no, of course not. But believe it or not we have the right to disagree with people too. Not saying he's a bad guy.

Steven Vegas' post was great. Please refer to that. He summed up our basic point perfectly.

Don't you ever, EVER, disagree with anyone on this board again, mister. The mods will probably put you in a time out for it.

Agreed, no one gives 2 craps about what Jeff decides to do. I just won't be giving a crap about his results/history because they will be skewed from everyone else's. Have fun with it how you want to. You paid for it, so just do it. Just understand how you alienated yourself from the other bunch who don't do what you do and we can all go on and play our paper wrestling game.

Butters: The posting name seems to fit you well...

[bmurderh8s]

IM not trying to start a fight here, but Ive always thought that people who played strictly by the book were somewhat narrow minded in their approach to the game. And some of this things said in this thread has reinforced that a little. Now I would never alter official stats, but I definitly am not gonna come on here and tell some one their fed doesnt matter cuz they changed reptillo's PIN by one.

You need a little frickin imagination.

Changing stats is not playing the wrong way. Playing the wrong way is not following the basic rules in the original intruction booklet. And even then its not really wrong. They're called House Rules.

[Joe]

How is someone who uses the card statistics specifically provided by the game's creator "narrow-minded?"

I understand using house rules. I understand using a champion's advantage. I understand rolling twice for DQ's or allowing three pin saves in your fed as opposed to two. These things do nothing to offset the balance of the game, which is set up for a reason by the creator.

I love Amazing Mann, and through pretty good talent and a whole lot of luck, he has held the GWF title for the past five (game) months. This is cool to me, partly because he does not have an incredible card. The fact that he has retained against the likes of Anarchy, Valour and Bloodline makes the accomplishment very impressive and memorable.

Conversely, if I had increased his agility to (-3), dropped that down from Level 2 defense and made the Contortion a (+3), his achievements would mean nothing and it wouldn't be as much fun. If I'm going to alter the stats of wrestlers, I might as well just create the results I want and not bother playing the matches out.

[ThePunisher]

bmurderh8s said:

IM not trying to start a fight here, but Ive always thought that people who played strictly by the book were somewhat narrow minded in their approach to the game. And some of this things said in this thread has reinforced that a little. Now I would never alter official stats, but I definitly am not gonna come on here and tell some one their fed doesnt matter cuz they changed reptillo's PIN by one.

You need a little frickin imagination.

Changing stats is not playing the wrong way. Playing the wrong way is not following the basic rules in the original intruction booklet. And even then its not really wrong. They're called House Rules.

Why don't you just take all the intellectual rights away and just start a whole fed of bootlegs? Is that enough imagination?

I'd rather pay $12 for every set and the $ assigned to whatever I'm buying.

Its called entreprenuial ability and we pay for that right to use Tom's ideas and cards and things he's put time toiling into. All the while, he could just stop and write more books and make a bunch more money off of them.

So show a little respect for someone else's imagination who started it all for the rest of us.

If you want to run things differently, go ahead and do it. Just put it in the bootleg section so I don't have to waste my time on it.

[Matt]

Narrow-minded = never changing game stats

Hmm...need to add that one to the GWF Files 3.

Seriously, it takes more imagination and creativity to not alter stats to fit a storyline, doesn't it? Changing stats is the easy way out; if a wrestler isn't "performing" the way we think they should, it takes more imagination and creativity to develop a storyline to go with it.

[swarm]

thepunisher said:

bmurderh8s said:

IM not trying to start a fight here, but Ive always thought that people who played strictly by the book were somewhat narrow minded in their approach to the game. And some of this things said in this thread has reinforced that a little. Now I would never alter official stats, but I definitly am not gonna come on here and tell some one their fed doesnt matter cuz they changed reptillo's PIN by one.

You need a little frickin imagination.

Changing stats is not playing the wrong way. Playing the wrong way is not following the basic rules in the original intruction booklet. And even then its not really wrong. They're called House Rules.

Why don't you just take all the intellectual rights away and just start a whole fed of bootlegs? Is that enough imagination?

I'd rather pay $12 for every set and the $ assigned to whatever I'm buying.

Its called entreprenuial ability and we pay for that right to use Tom's ideas and cards and things he's put time toiling into. All the while, he could just stop and write more books and make a bunch more money off of them.

So show a little respect for someone else's imagination who started it all for the rest of us.

If you want to run things differently, go ahead and do it. Just put it in the bootleg section so I don't have to waste my time on it.

Great post. I agree that any results including altered cards such as Jefft's whole fed should be posted in the bootleg forums because when you change the stats, that's what they become.

Also, good to Butters back in time to get his yellow belly whipped in FF again this year.

[bmurderh8s]

I own most of Tom's GWF sets with a gap between the 2110 -2118 sets, and just because I dont run a regular GWF fed, doesn't mean Tom is gonna smite me.

I've spent alot of money on this game, and me running a bootleg fed is in no way showing Tom any disrespect. I've given Tom a lot of my money, and i enjoy giving back to the community a little by creating my own stuff from time to time.

I dont see whats so wrong with doing your own thing. Why does everyone have to use Tom's imagination instesad of their own?

[bmurderh8s]

joe said:

How is someone who uses the card statistics specifically provided by the game's creator "narrow-minded?"

I understand using house rules. I understand using a champion's advantage. I understand rolling twice for DQ's or allowing three pin saves in your fed as opposed to two. These things do nothing to offset the balance of the game, which is set up for a reason by the creator.

I love Amazing Mann, and through pretty good talent and a whole lot of luck, he has held the GWF title for the past five (game) months. This is cool to me, partly because he does not have an incredible card. The fact that he has retained against the likes of Anarchy, Valour and Bloodline makes the accomplishment very impressive and memorable.

Conversely, if I had increased his agility to (-3), dropped that down from Level 2 defense and made the Contortion a (+3), his achievements would mean nothing and it wouldn't be as much fun. If I'm going to alter the stats of wrestlers, I might as well just create the results I want and not bother playing the matches out.

I meant narrow minded when it comes to Bootlegs or altering anything Tom has done in anyway.

[swarm]

bmurderh8s said:

I own most of Tom's GWF sets with a gap between the 2110 -2118 sets, and just because I dont run a regular GWF fed, doesn't mean Tom is gonna smite me.

I've spent alot of money on this game, and me running a bootleg fed is in no way showing Tom any disrespect. I've given Tom a lot of my money, and i enjoy giving back to the community a little by creating my own stuff from time to time.

I dont see whats so wrong with doing your own thing. Why does everyone have to use Tom's imagination instesad of their own?

You're missing the point brother...all we're saying is that when you change the stats on a game card, you are playing the game wrong.

Imagine taking a dollar bill and adding 2 0's to it...then running around saying you have a hundy in your pocket. Basically the same thing.

[bmurderh8s]

I was mostly just shocked to see people gang up on this guy because he admitted to altering stats. Thats all.

and for the record, Ive never altered any of Tom's guys which they were officially still wrestling. Although when Vyper and Enigma left the GWF I did do my own little stats. but they remained pretty much the same with a few tweaks to downgrade the cards.

[ThePunisher]

bmurderh8s said:

I own most of Tom's GWF sets with a gap between the 2110 -2118 sets, and just because I dont run a regular GWF fed, doesn't mean Tom is gonna smite me.

I've spent alot of money on this game, and me running a bootleg fed is in no way showing Tom any disrespect. I've given Tom a lot of my money, and i enjoy giving back to the community a little by creating my own stuff from time to time.

I dont see whats so wrong with doing your own thing. Why does everyone have to use Tom's imagination instesad of their own?

No, no one will smite you.

However, they are Tom's rules. He thought them up, therefore he has a legitmate economic stake in them.

Not you or me or anyone else who has their own GWF, CPC or bootleg fed.

But even if you create your own things, you are using Tom's imagination to create them. Those are his game mechanics, his idea to use those dice (especially the killer red and blue ones).

Like I said, do what you want with your league. Just don't run your mouth about me having a problem with it. Take it to the Home-made Fun section and I'll never look at it.

[theace4ever]

It's rather sad when people get bent out of shape over what someone else does to their cards when said person bought those cards with their own money(which gives them full reign to do whatever the wish to the card), I mean seriously, its not like the offended masses bought those person's cards for them. Tom still got paid and if the person screws up the card... oh well... it's their loss. The whole thing is rather pointless.