The Power of 2119 and Future

[swarm]

wildfire said:

As far as the card design, the groups are designed that way too, I don't see that much difference between this and, oh, turning Swarm heel and having him at the top of the card , instead of a mid card feud with Amazing Mann, for example.

Yes. Evolving my characters through self-designed story-lines, feuds, and alliances is exactly like busting out my no.2 pencil and erasing a game cards stats and replacing them with what I think they should be.

Totally the same thing.

[gatekeeper]

wildfire said:

I don't see how making your own upgrades or downgrades is any different from using bootlegs.

Very true. That's why you'll never see any bootlegs in DR or GK's feds. We're COTG purists.

Turning a guy heel or face is nowhere near altering the guy's stats. Tom throws wrestlers at guys of different skill all the time. Swarm had a feud with Kill Prey and now it's Tricks.

[Minotaur]

I have changed the cards if it fit an angle.

But I rarely do it.

I think the only time I can actaully remember doing it was during one of my runs with the game....Commander Sam started fighting fire with fire...and modified his finisher. The SAM'S ATOMID DROP would be an atomic drop into a chair propped up in the corner. It would raise the finisher rating...but also could get him DQ'd. It wasn't a permanent change, though...just a temporary one for that angle.

[offspring515]

I can respect both sides of this debate. I wouldn't change stats, but If someone wants to I think it's fine if it works for them.

The easiest way to lose a debate is to start off with "YOU ARE WRONG, I AM RIGHT.....and here are the reasons why." I think that's why we get so much bickering about fairly mundane topics.

[thefamoustommyz]

wildfire said:

I don't see how making your own upgrades or downgrades is any different from using bootlegs.

I personally dont tweak cards, but I definately did a couple downgrades/upgrade to EC guys before EC came out... heck, they're prolly still around here some where.

I think we can appreciate the time and effort that goes into the cards, yet try some things on our own as well.

Dood...didn't you get the memo?

Despite all of Tom's talk of "creativity" and "it's up to YOU, Promoter!" and whatnot, playing with bootlegs, altering card stats, not using the Choice Charts or PIN fatigue...heck, if you so much as DARE to use a house rule at all, then you're committing BadWrong Fun, are making a PERSONAL insult to Tom Filsinger whose concept of game design is so far beyond your meager desire to "have fun" that you may as well burn your CotG sets and issue Tom a written apology for daring to change things to fit your concept of personal enjoyment.

Also, you should never debut a wrestler before their time or allow them to stay a bit longer than is written, because that would disrupt the delicate balance of the cards in each set and - possibly - cause reality to implode.

Note, also that this only applies to the GWF (written by Tom) and aCe (which Tom has a large hand in guiding) and not the CPC, since Mark Ashby just uses it to push his dream fed of MMA Dudes in Wifebeaters, and so his entire vision is mutable and all the best characters are leftover GWF cards anyway...which you better dare not touch.

[swarm]

thefamoustommyz said:

wildfire said:

I don't see how making your own upgrades or downgrades is any different from using bootlegs.

I personally dont tweak cards, but I definately did a couple downgrades/upgrade to EC guys before EC came out... heck, they're prolly still around here some where.

I think we can appreciate the time and effort that goes into the cards, yet try some things on our own as well.

Dood...didn't you get the memo?

Despite all of Tom's talk of "creativity" and "it's up to YOU, Promoter!" and whatnot, playing with bootlegs, altering card stats, not using the Choice Charts or PIN fatigue...heck, if you so much as DARE to use a house rule at all, then you're committing BadWrong Fun, are making a PERSONAL insult to Tom Filsinger whose concept of game design is so far beyond your meager desire to "have fun" that you may as well burn your CotG sets and issue Tom a written apology for daring to change things to fit your concept of personal enjoyment.

Also, you should never debut a wrestler before their time or allow them to stay a bit longer than is written, because that would disrupt the delicate balance of the cards in each set and - possibly - cause reality to implode.

Note, also that this only applies to the GWF (written by Tom) and aCe (which Tom has a large hand in guiding) and not the CPC, since Mark Ashby just uses it to push his dream fed of MMA Dudes in Wifebeaters, and so his entire vision is mutable and all the best characters are leftover GWF cards anyway...which you better dare not touch.

Well said Tommy. I suppose I had been underestimating you. But you forgot the part about if you post a fed in the fed forums and you don't put it all one one easy to find thread, you are effing up the fed forums.

otherwise, great post.

ps: the spell check button is the third one from the left. Might want to check it out.

[Trent Lawless]

thefamoustommyz said:

Note, also that this only applies to the GWF (written by Tom) and aCe (which Tom has a large hand in guiding) and not the CPC, since Mark Ashby just uses it to push his dream fed of MMA Dudes in Wifebeaters, and so his entire vision is mutable and all the best characters are leftover GWF cards anyway...which you better dare not touch.

Ain't too many of those wife-beaters left, by my count.

And yes, I know you're joking. Kinda.

[thefamoustommyz]

swarm said:

Well said Tommy. I suppose I had been underestimating you. But you forgot the part about if you post a fed in the fed forums and you don't put it all one one easy to find thread, you are effing up the fed forums.

otherwise, great post.

ps: the spell check button is the third one from the left. Might want to check it out.

Oh...right. Consider than an official amendment to the post, then...you'll wreck the entire fed forum if you post your fed in more than one thread.

And the only misspelling I caught in that post was "dood", which was quite intentional (and the spellchecker wouldn't have caught it anyway).

But good try.

You might wanna work on capitalization though, while we're critiquing typing skills. After all, capitalization is the only thing that differentiates between "I helped my Uncle Jack off a horse," and "i helped my uncle jack off a horse."

[BrianU]

Actually, I like the MMA guys. My favorite part of CPC. Please expand the OFC Mark.

[Trent Lawless]

I think in 2121, your wish may be my command. But maybe not in the way you think.

Shoot! This thread turned into a teaser and away from little personal quibbles! Whatever shall we do?

[offspring515]

Riot in the streets?

Find a way to call everyone big poopy heads without sounding like a 3rd grader?

Stay on topic for once?

The possibilities are endless.

[jefft]

gatekeeper said:

jefft said:

I don't agree with changing his finishers

That's how you should feel about the rest of the card too.

'SHOULD FEEL' - What...are we living in Orwell's 1984 now? Or perhaps Nazi Germany?

Actually, the blasphemy I committed was changing his Pin rating and his defense slightly. Strangely enough, the cards didn't disintegrate, the universe did not collapse inward upon itself and implode, and I didn't find myself falling into some Lovecraftian-nightmare in which my subconscious was doomed to remain trapped for all eternity.

However, my fed DID become somewhat more enjoyable almost immediately.

[swarm]

Let it go man. Nobody cares anymore about this. We are all pumped up for Galacticon. We made our point. Later!

[jefft]

swarm said:

jefft said:

Please...educate me then as to how making my own personal upgrades and downgrades based on how things have occured in my own fed over long periods in any way conflicts with the points you just made. Really.

Not even if I possesed the IQ of Mesmer, the life-span of Solaris, and the patience of Atman, would I be able to find the time it would take to "educate" you on why making your own personal upgrades and downgrades conflicts with the way Tom writes the game.

Right.

So basically you have no idea, you're talking out of the other side of your mouth, and basically you're just pouting because someone dares to play the game differently than you do.

You seem to know Tom pretty well, being his apparent bodyguard/press agent and all. /Sarcasm off/ Perhaps you could ask him to write an article or something on what you are discussing and how wrong I am in doing what I've done. Possibly once it has been properly explained to me how I've been mismanaging my game all these years, then I'll be able to turn over a new leaf and be happy and content playing the game EXACTLY like you do.

[bmurderh8s]

I don't see whats so wrong with tweaking stats.


The dice have a lot to do with the play mechanics, in fact, the dice are the most important part IMO. The stats are merely a reference to the dice roll. Sure, setting up cards is somewhat of a "science", but I think Deadringer is taking it a bit too far. You play the odds when you set up the card in accordance to the dice roll.

I don't know if that made sense..let me know if it didn't. (And Im sure you will)

I can't believe people are even debating whether or not its right to "alter" Tom's cards. People should have the freedom to use and do to the cards as they see fit. As long as they aren't ripping Tom's stuff off and tyring to sell it.

INSANITY I tell you! INSANITY!!!!

[bmurderh8s]

EXAMPLE: In on fed Star Warrior could be nearly unbeatable at 10 wins and 2 loses but it another fed he could be barely past mid card at 4 wins and 6 loses. Randomness has a lot to do with it. The card set alters the randomness somewhat (ie some guys are more likely to win then lose.)

am I even making sense?

[Chewey]

I'm with Brandon (Death Match Kid) here. As long as you're not re-marketing Tom's stuff, I don't see a problem with tweaking the original stats for a storyline purpose here and there.

I don't do it frequently, in fact I think I've only done it twice. In 2087, I had Comrade Terror feud with Wolf over who had the better face claw (Comrade Terror move 5 on L3O is the "Terror Face Claw"). Now it wouldn't make any sense if the Terror Face Claw was only a power-3 move, so I gave it a (0) finisher rating, though in retrospect I probably would have only given it an add 1 if I knew such rule existed at the time. This led to a kickass feud between the two, and I moved the Terror Face Claw back to a regular power-3 move once the feud ran its course.

I also switched Jim Londos' LOW stats to make his Sleeperhold a finisher, and his Airplane Spin a regular move because I think it reflects the actual wrestler better in my opinion.

On the topic of by-the-book or personal freedom, I admit I haven't read much of DR or Gates' feds because I have only recently gotten caught up on game editions for them to make sense to me, but from what I have read of them, their feds don't follow the storylines rigidly either. While there are probably some true BTB'ers out there, the things that make our feds different is what makes this game unique. Besides, changing the stats is not showing Tom any disrespect if you keep on buying Tom's stuff, in my opinion.

[Splattercat]

Only change we've made is to the Iron Sheik's Finisher...It now reads:

CAMEL CLUTCH +2*

*When facing B Brian Blair this move becomes CAMEL CLUTCH +4. If Blair is beaten by this hold, roll 2 dice for injury, and roll suspension for Iron Sheik.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

EDIT: it should be noted that no actual card text has been changed...This is a house rule...

[Chewey]

just thought of another thing. As a bootlegger, I do not mind if someone tweaks the stats of one of my creations if that is what it takes for them to use one of my guys. Most people I know feel the same way about their creations as I have asked several people in the past if I could tweak their characters. I'm sure Tom and Mark and the whole crew have similar thoughts?

[Trent Lawless]

Weeeeellllllll...

I can see why someone might want to tweak a CPC character. And I can't stop anyone from doing so. Nor would I want to.

But I know that I at least put a lot of thought into the mechanics of it all, especially since (as I've said before) that card stats are the most taxing part of the process for me. The writing is a comparative breeze. It's kind of a blow to hear when someone's second-guessing me.

Then again, I know I'm not infallible. Just stings a little, is all.