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Post by Tom on Jul 3, 2006 20:18:24 GMT -5
Like Mark, I put a lot of thought into card stats. It drives my printer crazy. I was making last minute switches on the 2121 cards...really little things like a dazed-1 or hurt-2 on L1D or a deathjump rating or the many other minor changes that could be made on a playing card. I literally went back and forth a few times. Thankfully the people I work with are patient...or they seem to be.  As for tweaking stuff, I'm a purist. I would never change anything on a playing card for Magic, VS, or Strat-O-Matic, even though I've often wanted to. I have a friend that does it to his Strat cards. He actually writes new stats on the cards in pencil. Even on an aesthetic level that bothers me. On the other hand I use "house rules" for all the games I play. So go figure.  |
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Post by Pete Beck on Jul 3, 2006 23:15:16 GMT -5
Thankfully the people I work with are patient...or they seem to be. No wonder Bob always looks "dazed-1" at G-Con...Tom puts him through the ringer each edition! (lets keep this clean!) |
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Post by swarm on Jul 4, 2006 0:26:11 GMT -5
Thankfully the people I work with are patient...or they seem to be. No wonder Bob always looks "dazed-1" at G-Con...Tom puts him through the ringer each edition! (lets keep this clean!) dazed-1? More like down-3 (lv) |
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Post by gatekeeper on Jul 4, 2006 1:03:11 GMT -5
'SHOULD FEEL' - What...are we living in Orwell's 1984 now? Or perhaps Nazi Germany? Actually, the blasphemy I committed was changing his Pin rating and his defense slightly. Strangely enough, the cards didn't disintegrate, the universe did not collapse inward upon itself and implode, and I didn't find myself falling into some Lovecraftian-nightmare in which my subconscious was doomed to remain trapped for all eternity. However, my fed DID become somewhat more enjoyable almost immediately.  Wow! The universe didn't collapse?! (this sentence should be read with the most sarcastic voice ever) My whole point is that it's changing the game. Lots of people use house rules, but changing the stats is going too far. As you'll notice Tom and Mark don't seem all that gung ho about you changing their cards that they spend many hours going over to create the right balance for their characters. It's like saying "When we play basketball, MY baskets count double, so if I score 1, it's really 4pts instead of 2. If you played by yourself, I guess no one would care that much, but people would still know you're doing it wrong. And no, we're not in Nazi Germany, I'm in Detroit. |
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Post by PureHatred on Jul 4, 2006 11:37:24 GMT -5
As for tweaking stuff, I'm a purist. I would never change anything on a playing card for Magic, VS, or Strat-O-Matic, even though I've often wanted to. I have a friend that does it to his Strat cards. He actually writes new stats on the cards in pencil. Even on an aesthetic level that bothers me. Changing stats on a Strat-O-Matic card is like being in the Taliban. It's that evil. |
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Post by Pete Beck on Jul 4, 2006 14:10:20 GMT -5
I was trying to be nice with the "dazed-1", but you are correct...However, the (lv) option is never "optional" as Bob is usually headed to the store around the corner... |
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Post by Trent Lawless on Jul 4, 2006 16:38:59 GMT -5
His finisher is BOTTLE OF JACK TO THE HEAD (his own, that is) (+2). And it's easy to get him down, but he just ... keeps ... coming ... back ... for more!
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Post by ThePunisher on Jul 4, 2006 18:59:57 GMT -5
As for tweaking stuff, I'm a purist. I would never change anything on a playing card for Magic, VS, or Strat-O-Matic, even though I've often wanted to. I have a friend that does it to his Strat cards. He actually writes new stats on the cards in pencil. Even on an aesthetic level that bothers me. Damn it. That's why I never won any Pro Tours when I used to play Magic. I never edited the cards. Also explains why Humberto Cota never led the league in Home Runs in any Strat season I played either. Hmmmmm... |
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Post by Pete Beck on Jul 4, 2006 23:09:23 GMT -5
His finisher is BOTTLE OF JACK TO THE HEAD (his own, that is) (+2). And it's easy to get him down, but he just ... keeps ... coming ... back ... for more! AAAAHHHHHH HHHHAAAAAA!!!! Too True! |
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Post by thefamoustommyz on Jul 5, 2006 4:36:48 GMT -5
I can only thing of a single instance in which I tweaked a card...I had a Ted DiBiase turn face and team with Jim Duggan, reverting to his old Mid-South persona and I brought back the BLACK GLOVE OF DOOM, replacing the last MILLION DOLLAR SLEEPER (0) with LOADED GLOVE (+1) dis...
And I thoroughly enjoyed the angle...of course, I hated the Million Dollar Man character and would have (would still) loved a "Mid-South" Ted DiBiase card instead of what we got, but such is life.
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Post by jefft on Jul 5, 2006 6:40:47 GMT -5
Like Mark, I put a lot of thought into card stats. It drives my printer crazy. I was making last minute switches on the 2121 cards...really little things like a dazed-1 or hurt-2 on L1D or a deathjump rating or the many other minor changes that could be made on a playing card. I literally went back and forth a few times. Thankfully the people I work with are patient...or they seem to be. As for tweaking stuff, I'm a purist. I would never change anything on a playing card for Magic, VS, or Strat-O-Matic, even though I've often wanted to. I have a friend that does it to his Strat cards. He actually writes new stats on the cards in pencil. Even on an aesthetic level that bothers me. On the other hand I use "house rules" for all the games I play. So go figure. - I never doubted that you put a great deal of thought into every aspect of every edition you put out, Tom. - As Magic and similar such games are meant to be played AGAINST others, I would never change stats on cards. I just play GWF for myself so I don't see it as the same. My entire family plays Magic every so often...it had never even occurred to me to change a card. - I use one or two House rules for the GWF myself. I see changing cards as pretty much the same as House rules...I've changed something about the game to make it more fun for ME. At the same time, I realize were I to make massive rule changes or changed most of the cards it would ruin the overall game integrity. As such...I've really only made small changes over the lifetime of my game. Thanks for your input! |
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Post by jefft on Jul 5, 2006 7:10:00 GMT -5
'SHOULD FEEL' - What...are we living in Orwell's 1984 now? Or perhaps Nazi Germany? Actually, the blasphemy I committed was changing his Pin rating and his defense slightly. Strangely enough, the cards didn't disintegrate, the universe did not collapse inward upon itself and implode, and I didn't find myself falling into some Lovecraftian-nightmare in which my subconscious was doomed to remain trapped for all eternity. However, my fed DID become somewhat more enjoyable almost immediately. Wow! The universe didn't collapse?! (this sentence should be read with the most sarcastic voice ever) My whole point is that it's changing the game. Lots of people use house rules, but changing the stats is going too far. As you'll notice Tom and Mark don't seem all that gung ho about you changing their cards that they spend many hours going over to create the right balance for their characters. It's like saying "When we play basketball, MY baskets count double, so if I score 1, it's really 4pts instead of 2. If you played by yourself, I guess no one would care that much, but people would still know you're doing it wrong. And no, we're not in Nazi Germany, I'm in Detroit. Sorry...we're just still WAY apart here. I'm very aware that I'm not playing exactly according to the rules (nor are you, I suspect), but I cannot agree that it is 'wrong'. It would only be 'wrong' (you guys need to be careful with statements like that) were I to try to impose how I play on you or others, or try to bring my game into an official tournament or something. At that point, I would certainly expect to get laughed at, receive disapproving looks, or worse. Many people don't follow the storylines, some don't even use certain guys, a few change stats, and I'm sure a large majority use house rules (and let's be clear, changing certain rules would have a much larger effect on overall game balance than making minor tweaks to a couple cards would). Believe it or not, I find maintaining such a pure attitude towards the game somewhat admirable actually. However, the more I think you and DR's argument through from a logical stance...I find it more and more to make no sense at all. As I said elsewhere, we'll just have to agree to disagree, sir.  |
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Post by swarm on Jul 5, 2006 9:25:20 GMT -5
Not even if I possessed the IQ of Mesmer, the life-span of Solaris, and the patience of Atman, would I be able to find the time it would take to "educate" you on why making your own personal upgrades and downgrades conflicts with the way Tom writes the game. You seem to know Tom pretty well, being his apparent bodyguard/press agent and all. /Sarcasm off/ Perhaps you could ask him to write an article or something on what you are discussing and how wrong I am in doing what I've done. He already did, like 20 years ago. It's called the Official COTG Rules and Instruction booklet. it comes with the game. |
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Post by jefft on Jul 5, 2006 11:26:58 GMT -5
You seem to know Tom pretty well, being his apparent bodyguard/press agent and all. /Sarcasm off/ Perhaps you could ask him to write an article or something on what you are discussing and how wrong I am in doing what I've done. He already did, like 20 years ago. It's called the Official COTG Rules and Instruction booklet. it comes with the game. Given Tom's comments about house rules above...this statement sounds kinda silly, dude. |
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Post by swarm on Jul 5, 2006 12:19:18 GMT -5
He already did, like 20 years ago. It's called the Official COTG Rules and Instruction booklet. it comes with the game. Given Tom's comments about house rules above...this statement sounds kinda silly, dude. House rules are things like rolling DQ twice, not changing the stats on the gamecards. Did you read the part where he wrote "As for tweaking stuff, I'm a purist. I would never change anything on a playing card..." Hey, it's your game. If you want to play it wrong, that's fine. |
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Post by steelthunder814 on Jul 5, 2006 12:33:26 GMT -5
His finisher is BOTTLE OF JACK TO THE HEAD (his own, that is) (+2). And it's easy to get him down, but he just ... keeps ... coming ... back ... for more! I wonder how he'd do against Sandman, bud vs.jack the ultimate duel!!! |
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Post by jefft on Jul 5, 2006 12:37:56 GMT -5
Given Tom's comments about house rules above...this statement sounds kinda silly, dude. House rules are things like rolling DQ twice, not changing the stats on the gamecards. Did you read the part where he wrote "As for tweaking stuff, I'm a purist. I would never change anything on a playing card..." Hey, it's your game. If you want to play it wrong, that's fine. Eh, don't see the difference. As I said before, I think house rules like the one you mention affect game balance and match outcomes at the least the same amount, if not more, than a few card tweaks. Still don't, and probably never will, understand why one element is such a problem. Also, please make up my mind...as much as you respond so defiantly to my statements it sure doesn't seem 'fine' that I play my game 'wrong'. |
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Post by gatekeeper on Jul 5, 2006 12:44:39 GMT -5
Eh, don't see the difference. As I said before, I think house rules like the one you mention affect game balance and match outcomes at the least the same amount, if not more, than a few card tweaks. And there's the crux of the matter. The fact that you don't see the difference speaks volumes. |
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Post by Dragon Breath on Jul 5, 2006 12:44:43 GMT -5
I view "the game" as having three components.
1. The rules, which consist of the rulebook that came with my original purchase plus stuff that is introduced in the various game editions, like specialty matches, rules for managers, and Splatter's Lottery Chart.
I consider myself a purist when it comes to the rules. I won't even introduce a specialty match in my Fed until it gets introduced in a game edition. The only deviation I make from the official rules (as they stand in 2097) is to lower a champions' pin rating by 1 to help reduce turnover of the belts.
2. The wrestlers. I have never changed one, and would never consider changing the stats of a wrestler in my GWF Fed. I don't use bootlegs. Everyone debuts and retires as indicated in the game editions.
I have toyed with the idea of creating a spinoff Fed which examines what happened to the wrestlers that got exiled during War Games (Vanity, Mayhem, Death Masque, etc.). I envision a second rate Fed signing some of the exiles to attempt to "compete" with the GWF. If I ever go through with this I would certainly introduce bootlegs and would possibly introduce some of the GWF wrestlers into this Fed prior to making their GWF debut (Kati seems like a good candidate for this). I wouldn't be able to bring myself to alter the stats of any of the GWF wrestlers though. It would just feel wrong. Whatever I did would have to be fully consistant with the official GWF storyline though (the Fed would probably collapse when the exiles returned to the GWF)..
3. The story. Each game edition is another chapter to my GWF Fed. The game edition provides the plot, but doesn't provide an ending. I leave it to the dice to write that ending for me. I strictly follow the rosters and teams as they are presented in the game edition, and I always keep the storyline feuds intact for the full year. Its just that sometimes the dice push me in an interesting direction and I run with it.
The best example I have relates to my tag team situation in my Fed's early years. The Greek Gods dominated the first three years of my Fed, holding the belts for practically all of that time. The Gladiators underperformed for me until their 2090 upgrade. When Billy Jo Boxer joined my Fed, Titan Power quickly climbed the ranks. I had a stretch of time where where The Greek Gods were losing a ton of title matches by DQ (it wasn't planned, it was the will of the dice), and Titan Power was head and shoulders above the rest of the field (They just destroyed the Gladiators and anyone else I threw at them, but couldn't win the big one cleanly). This set off one of my Fed's all time best feuds between the two. The Greek Gods were heels. When Proteus got DQ'ed he would smirk, shrug his shoulders and make a big show about retrieving his belt and attaching it around his waist before exiting the ring. Actagon was much more intense. When he got DQ'ed it was because he basically snapped in the middle of the match. Titan Power were the faces that always came up short (until they eventually won the belts and quickly dropped them to the Gladiators in 2090). Once this happened I dropped the storyline with the Greek Gods "coming to their senses" and apologizing to the Titans.
I guess my whole point in all of this is that I'm strict with the rules and stats, but a little bit flexible with the storylines if the dice push me in a certain direction.
I don't consider it my place to critique how others run their Fed. I made my decisions on how to run my Fed because I thought it would allow me the best chance to experience the GWF (and eventually the CPC and aCe) they way their respective authors intended.
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Post by gatekeeper on Jul 5, 2006 12:48:10 GMT -5
Well Tom did say that the handbooks are just a guide and just the beginning of each year. So, you're more than justified in changing feuds as you want. It would be hard to have the same guys only fight each other for the whole year.
But you notice he never says, "Change any wrestler's stats on the back as you see fit."
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