A Call for Disclosure
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Post by A Call for Disclosure on Sept 18, 2004 13:20:37 GMT -5
I'm curious, for the sake of disclosure, how many of those who have posted on this thread are friends with or have prior relationships with any or all of the producers of this game?
While it may just be an 'odd coincidence' this thread seems more like a commercial than an objective gamers review. The dissenter has a right to his opinion...as do the supporters. Yet labeling anyone as a 'troll' for having either view is certainly counter-productive in the casting of an honest dialogue.
So I invite a call for disclosure and a respect for all opinions. Tells us who you are and why your posting about this game on the official Filsinger Games subforum. Are you random gamers, or are you affiliated directly/indirectly with the product and those who represent it? Is the goal casual conversation on the product? Or is there a concerted effort being made to stimulate new customer sales from with-in the niche market represented on this site?
Certainly we can all agree that we can each do a better job of interacting with one another than is currently being evidenced on this thread. Disclosure would be a good start!
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Post by Allensh on Sept 18, 2004 13:40:58 GMT -5
I'm curious, for the sake of disclosure, how many of those who have posted on this thread are friends with or have prior relationships with any or all of the producers of this game? While it may just be an 'odd coincidence' this thread seems more like a commercial than an objective gamers review. The dissenter has a right to his opinion...as do the supporters. Yet labeling anyone as a 'troll' for having either view is certainly counter-productive in the casting of an honest dialogue. So I invite a call for disclosure and a respect for all opinions. Tells us who you are and why your posting about this game on the official Filsinger Games subforum. Are you random gamers, or are you affiliated directly/indirectly with the product and those who represent it? Is the goal casual conversation on the product? Or is there a concerted effort being made to stimulate new customer sales from with-in the niche market represented on this site? Certainly we can all agree that we can each do a better job of interacting with one another than is currently being evidenced on this thread. Disclosure would be a good start! I have a friendship of sorts (we have never met in person) from participating in an online game with Cynthia Celeste Miller. Other than that, I have no connection with the game other than being a fan of wrestling and RPG's. The fact that he didn't like the game is not the issue with me. The insults towards people he doesn't even know and his arrogance in asserting that he and his friends opinions must obviously represent that of the majority of people who were at Gen Con is what annoyed me. I can handle INFORMED dissent; it's when people shoot off their "mouths" without knowing that they are talking about that I get bothered. And when someone posts something on a message board clearly designed to cause trouble, THAT is a troll. Allen |
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Post by Just a Guy on Sept 18, 2004 14:27:16 GMT -5
I'm curious, for the sake of disclosure, how many of those who have posted on this thread are friends with or have prior relationships with any or all of the producers of this game? While it may just be an 'odd coincidence' this thread seems more like a commercial than an objective gamers review. The dissenter has a right to his opinion...as do the supporters. Yet labeling anyone as a 'troll' for having either view is certainly counter-productive in the casting of an honest dialogue. So I invite a call for disclosure and a respect for all opinions. Tells us who you are and why your posting about this game on the official Filsinger Games subforum. Are you random gamers, or are you affiliated directly/indirectly with the product and those who represent it? Is the goal casual conversation on the product? Or is there a concerted effort being made to stimulate new customer sales from with-in the niche market represented on this site? Certainly we can all agree that we can each do a better job of interacting with one another than is currently being evidenced on this thread. Disclosure would be a good start! I'm a "random gamer" who has taken a look at the demo and I'm reserving judgement until I see the final product. Why get overly excited/disappointed over a game that isn't complete? As far as my involvement in this particular thread goes, I found it strange that someone would have so much vitriol for a company that produces games. Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when someone is asked to clarify or back up their opinion, it's only fair that they do so. Otherwise, it's not a wild conclusion to think that an individual is trolling. The individual may actually have some valid criticisms, but no one will ever know when all we're barraged with is; "It sucks", "It's incredibly stupid", "it's a piece of garbage". The bottom line is, we're talking about a game and not the solution for world peace. Aside from the folks associated with the game, I really don't see a reason to get too emotional about it. If people truly are bothered by the game, at the very least they should provide some reasoning as to why things bother them so much. The same logic applies to overly positive responses as well. |
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Post by WWE Raw Deal Fan on Sept 18, 2004 19:33:39 GMT -5
I find it vaguely amusing that someone saying they don't like something is considered trolling whereas someone just blatantly supporting something is considered perfectly fine.
Unlike the person defending it, I am just a guy who checked the game out with his friends at GenCon and didn't like it.
I have nothing against Comic Images, as they produce Raw Deal, which I do enjoy. I just wish they did as good of a job on this game.
So, as to the Who Am I Question: I am a CCGer, RPGer, and WWE fan who was originally very excited about a product and, after examining it, found it extremely lacking and not worthy of purchase, barring some major overhaul.
I spoke with at least ten people about it at GenCon, probably more like a dozen, and outside of two guys, the rest found it lacking. This list isn't counting my friends, who shared my personal opinion that the product was substandard.
Many people probably do like it. I hope so. I hold nothing against those that do or the company that produces it. I simply voiced my opinion and stated that it is held by a majority of people that I spoke to and discussed this product with at GenCon. While the sample size is far from complete, it is nevertheless valid.
If you'll notice, I have not attacked anyone or name-called, even after I would be righteous in doing so in response to the uncalled for attacks against myself.
I'm just a fan of games giving my opinion as well as the opinion of those I spoke to, so that those who perhaps haven't had the chance to see it would realize that, at least from my perspective, a majority of people were not satisfied with the product with their sampling of it.
Let's not try to hide the truth due to our allegiances and friendships with the designers and the desire to try to make a quick buck off the unaware.
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Post by Allensh on Sept 18, 2004 20:05:38 GMT -5
I find it vaguely amusing that someone saying they don't like something is considered trolling whereas someone just blatantly supporting something is considered perfectly fine. Unlike the person defending it, I am just a guy who checked the game out with his friends at GenCon and didn't like it. I have nothing against Comic Images, as they produce Raw Deal, which I do enjoy. I just wish they did as good of a job on this game. So, as to the Who Am I Question: I am a CCGer, RPGer, and WWE fan who was originally very excited about a product and, after examining it, found it extremely lacking and not worthy of purchase, barring some major overhaul. I spoke with at least ten people about it at GenCon, probably more like a dozen, and outside of two guys, the rest found it lacking. This list isn't counting my friends, who shared my personal opinion that the product was substandard. Many people probably do like it. I hope so. I hold nothing against those that do or the company that produces it. I simply voiced my opinion and stated that it is held by a majority of people that I spoke to and discussed this product with at GenCon. While the sample size is far from complete, it is nevertheless valid. If you'll notice, I have not attacked anyone or name-called, even after I would be righteous in doing so in response to the uncalled for attacks against myself. I'm just a fan of games giving my opinion as well as the opinion of those I spoke to, so that those who perhaps haven't had the chance to see it would realize that, at least from my perspective, a majority of people were not satisfied with the product with their sampling of it. Let's not try to hide the truth due to our allegiances and friendships with the designers and the desire to try to make a quick buck off the unaware. As has been pointed out to you, you have not seen the completed product. The demo was based on an earlier draft of the rules and I can testify that they ARE being playtested and that they are NOT as simplistic as the demo. The phrase "try to make a quick buck off the unaware"..basically, you are accusing the designers of the game, and Comic Images, of fraud! And you don't think that is insulting? From what I have seen, Tony and Cyndi are trying to make sure that people are VERY aware of what the game is and what it's all about. Not of course that you and your dozen or so "friends" actually care. You want disclosure? fine. My name is Allen Shock, and i live in Michigan. Now lets find out what your real name is. I am not afraid to sign my name and stand behind what I say---you do the same. Allen |
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Post by Tone Cold on Sept 18, 2004 22:06:11 GMT -5
Triple H actually doesn't have an ability, but thanks for playing along. Those of us seeing it from the outside at GenCon have other opinions. While some thought it looked cool at GC, most didn't. Technically, no, HHH doesn't have an ability. Doesn't mean I didn't come up with that, tho, so you're welcome  As for paycheck, every one of us designers has been working without one... and whether the core book sells out or not even a copy won't put any additional cent in our pocket. I have no problem with you not liking the game, but can you tell us what exactly you think is wrong so we can try to fix it? Things like "Doesn't feel like wrestling," "unbalanced" are pretty hard to pin down and to correct without specific examples. Tony |
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Post by wsh on Sept 18, 2004 22:35:15 GMT -5
My name is William S. Hillard. I'm a role player, a wrestling fan of about 2 decades, a poet, and a writer. I compiled the demo from the information provided by the Macharbor forums. I did this mainly because I thought the game was cool, the official .pdf document hasn't been posted by Comic Images yet, and I thought it would be nice if all the information was in one easily accessible spot. Since my work on that document, I was invited to playtest the game, which I agreed to because I wanted to be a part of that process. As a longtime gamer and wrestling fan, how could I possibly refuse. I'm otherwise unaffiliated with Comic Images. I'm not getting paid one red cent for anything I contribute to the game. For me, it's all about being a part of something cool. I second the notion that if you want to be taken seriously, you should give reasons why the game is unbalanced, not fun, etc. It's when you start throwing out words like "idiotic" that I stop taking you and your opinion seriously. I'm sure you mean well. But, if it means that much to you, then this is your chance to explain what you think needs to be fixed in the game. The demo is, obviously, right at your fingertips. I'm all ears. Edit: And the reason I'm here? My web page was brought up as "evidence" of how bad the game is. I do care about my work, even if it's just a compilation. |
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Post by CynthiaCM on Sept 18, 2004 23:04:54 GMT -5
I'm Cynthia Celeste Miller and I'm on the KYR design team. Like Tony said, we don't get paid based on how well the game sells. We've been doing this without financial compensation thus far. The amount we're to be paid will be the same whether the book sells 10 copies or 10,000 copies.
So, technically, we don't need to worry about whether we garner a few extra sales. We inform people about the game because we believe in it and enjoy discussing it.
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Post by Allensh on Sept 18, 2004 23:21:49 GMT -5
My name is William S. Hillard. I'm a role player, a wrestling fan of about 2 decades, a poet, and a writer. A better poet than John Heidenreich, I hope  Allen |
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Post by wsh on Sept 18, 2004 23:42:21 GMT -5
A better poet than John Heidenreich, I hope Allen Well.... At first I thought he ripped off some of my work. But, he raped Cole. So I thought to myself "Maybe not." |
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Post by Tone Cold on Sept 29, 2004 23:04:50 GMT -5
Well, guess if nobody cared to tell us specifically how the game's "not fun" or "unbalanced," let the "BS PR campaign" continue Anyway, the official website is up, with the 8-page demo in PDF format, at www.comicimages.com/KYR . You'll also notice that the release date is now "in time for Wrestlemania 21." Well, the WWE isn't the fastest gun in approving licensed materials, is all I have to say... Now I wanna see William play Heidenreich in a match and rattle off some impromptu poems  Tony |
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Post by wsh on Sept 30, 2004 21:09:47 GMT -5
When all this is said and done, we might have to get together for an online game and make that happen. ;D Edit: And remember, it's not just rape... It's [glow=red,2,300]HEIDENRAPE[/glow] Poor Michael Cole.  |
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Post by Allensh on Oct 2, 2004 14:14:46 GMT -5
When all this is said and done, we might have to get together for an online game and make that happen. ;D I'm there, man! Just let me know when and where! Allen |
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Post by Vidtek on Oct 7, 2004 22:46:09 GMT -5
Hey, an online game for this sounds great, sign me up if it happens.
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Post by Tone Cold on Oct 9, 2004 13:49:05 GMT -5
Online game, eh?... sounds like it might be an idea we can implement for the official KYR site, a sub-message board dedicated to online matches. I like that!
Tony
p.s.: pitched the idea of an interactive demo game where you can select a wrestler and go up against a computer-controlled opponent for the website... unfortunately that's a little beyond CI right now.
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Post by wsh on Oct 10, 2004 9:25:05 GMT -5
Online game, eh?... sounds like it might be an idea we can implement for the official KYR site, a sub-message board dedicated to online matches. I like that! Tony p.s.: pitched the idea of an interactive demo game where you can select a wrestler and go up against a computer-controlled opponent for the website... unfortunately that's a little beyond CI right now. It wouldn't be that hard. I started to run one for the demo on RPG.net's Play by Post forum, but it kinda fell through. |
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Post by Just a Guy on Oct 10, 2004 12:42:22 GMT -5
p.s.: pitched the idea of an interactive demo game where you can select a wrestler and go up against a computer-controlled opponent for the website... unfortunately that's a little beyond CI right now. Tony, I might be able help out with something like this. What's the best way to get in contact with you (or CI) on something like this? |
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Post by Tone Cold on Oct 11, 2004 0:36:15 GMT -5
Tony, I might be able help out with something like this. What's the best way to get in contact with you (or CI) on something like this? Drop me a line at tmlee15@hotmail.com. I'll talk to the CI people and see what they think in the meantime. Would really be cool if this works out! Tony |
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Post by CynthiaCM on Oct 11, 2004 10:48:43 GMT -5
EXTREMELY cool. In fact, I feel it will increase the buy rate of KYR, as it will enable would-be customers to truly give the game a whirl.
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Post by Allensh on Oct 26, 2004 23:18:22 GMT -5
Well I have been helping to playtest this game and I have to say it is excellent. It is going to be much fun indeed. My group adores it.
Allen
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