Not entirely happy

[Talison]

Well sometimes it was people who did buy the meal. They just wanted an extra toy for someone not there, one for an infant who wasn't eating solids, or any number of other things.

When we had Beanie Babies as a toy we had people coming in and buying full sets of them at once for over 30 dollars.

[Hegemony]

We agree that the prolongment of CPC and aCe is spectacular. But the concerns expressed by others in the game community are equally valid and deserve consideration if nothing else. I would like to think that these suggestions are not going to come off as attacks and instead the constructive criticisms they are, even if they are not followed and ultimately rejected.

And I am not trying to be cheap, as since I own almost everything that Filsinger Games makes available I feel that I qualify as the target audience for this product. However, I am not entirely interested in COTG-Online myself but am into aCe and CPC. I would probably purchase COTG-Online for this reason alone, but I can see depending on the cost that I would feel a bit trapped into something that I don't want, and to me this is not necessarily a good thing. I am not trying ot be overly critical, but it is something that I feel teh pdf format can alleviate, and should at least be considered. That is all.

[swarm]

hegemony said:

swarm said:

What would you rather have? CPC and aCe ON-line...

or

nothing at all?

Because that was the other option before Kris apparently convinced Tom to keep aCe and now apparently CPC alive through COTG Online.

You should know this as you were at GCON just like I was.

I agree that something is better than nothing, all I am saying is that the system may not be perfect yet (something those in charge of the project readily admit) and there are aspects that could potentially appease those who are feeling like they are being forced into something they may not want. Just discussing options here.

I understand that and if I thought those options were really necessary I would agree with you but I don't. COTG Online won't be expensive and hey you may even buy it and love it. I just see no reason to split it up into smaller parts just to appease a few people.

The masses will buy it and like with anything, there will be some people who don't or who don't like everything about it. So you buy it all or you don't is all I'm saying because I think that's how it's going to be imo.

[Hegemony]

swarm said:

mattpulido said:

Cheap? How am I coming off as cheap?

Not you so much as your post about people going into Macdonalds just to buy the toys. I just turns my stomach. I don't know why. It just seems so cheap.

But the friggin $3 meal you cheap-skate. Again not you, the people you talk about in your post. Just seems like white-trash christmas shopping to me.

For the record you usually pay the same amount as the meal costs with the free toy included, so money really has nothing to do with it. ;D

[gatekeeper]

A better analogy than fast food might be going into Toys R Us and saying you want to buy the board of Monopoly and not the rest of the game. The people would say it comes as a package so buy the whole game, or don't.

The best point made on here by Swarm was that the point of exclusive Online sets was so people will play the Online version.

Since the aCe and CPC were slated for termination, Kris and Tom came up with a way for these editions to live on. Saying that Tom should bend over backwards even more for you is a bit ridiculous.

Buy the online or you don't play ace -- it's that simple. Why can't you concede that? If you buy Online, you'll be able to print out the cards anyways. How much more do Kris and Tom need to do?

Jeez.

[swarm]

hegemony said:

. However, I am not entirely interested in COTG-Online myself but am into aCe and CPC. I would probably purchase COTG-Online for this reason alone, but I can see depending on the cost that I would feel a bit trapped into something that I don't want, and to me this is not necessarily a good thing. I am not trying ot be overly critical, but it is something that I feel teh pdf format can alleviate, and should at least be considered. That is all.

Well I don't and have never played aCe or CPC and I will buy COTG ONline and still plan to continue playing old-school with my game cards and dice so you can see how I can't relate.

[krisosk]

Speaking strictly business, it boils down to this:

Paper editions of the LOW are the most profitable product for Filsinger Games, followed by the GWF.

CPC and aCe seem to be on par with eachother profit-wise, but recently, both were approaching the point of nearly NO PROFIT.
In fact, it was a strong possibilty that continuously producing aCe and CPC in their current paper form would begin COSTING Filsinger Games money.

That is why, prior to the creation of COTGonline, there were rumors of aCe 2121 and CPC 2122 being the final game editions for both lines.

With the advent of COTGonline, shifting these two federations over is a no-brainer. It's been said before, but it bears repeating again here, who out there would prefer NO aCe or CPC as opposed to unlimited amounts of aCe and CPC? (and lets not forget about things like Promoter Madness, POW Classics, "The Zoo," an Aethran Federation, or anything else we can dream up).

Sure, making aCe 2121 an Online exclusive is a promotional tool, but above all else, it's a matter of business.

Also remember that aCe was, is, and will continue to be the "experimental fed." That's another reason it's the first Online exclusive. Without printing costs there are more funds for the artist and colorist which means more fantastic character cards. Without publication restrictions (like only having 19 pages of the paper booklet to work with), it allows the writer to add more pages of story and bigger and better reference material (the Character Profile section). And, with things that don't require any input from the artist and colorist (and therefore no costs), like new matches, new charts, etc., the sky is the limit.

~ :-Xsk

[Hegemony]

krisosk said:

Speaking strictly business, it boils down to this:

Paper editions of the LOW are the most profitable product for Filsinger Games, followed by the GWF.

CPC and aCe seem to be on par with eachother profit-wise, but recently, both were approaching the point of nearly NO PROFIT.
In fact, it was a strong possibilty that continuously producing aCe and CPC in their current paper form would begin COSTING Filsinger Games money.

That is why, prior to the creation of COTGonline, there were rumors of aCe 2121 and CPC 2122 being the final game editions for both lines.

With the advent of COTGonline, shifting these two federations over is a no-brainer. It's been said before, but it bears repeating again here, who out there would prefer NO aCe or CPC as opposed to unlimited amounts of aCe and CPC? (and lets not forget about things like Promoter Madness, POW Classics, "The Zoo," an Aethran Federation, or anything else we can dream up).

Sure, making aCe 2121 an Online exclusive is a promotional tool, but above all else, it's a matter of business.

Also remember that aCe was, is, and will continue to be the "experimental fed." That's another reason it's the first Online exclusive. Without printing costs there are more funds for the artist and colorist which means more fantastic character cards. Without publication restrictions (like only having 19 pages of the paper booklet to work with), it allows the writer to add more pages of story and bigger and better reference material (the Character Profile section). And, with things that don't require any input from the artist and colorist (and therefore no costs), like new matches, new charts, etc., the sky is the limit.

~ :-Xsk

Would these alleviations of limits not still be possible by making the pdf only files of equal cost to the paper game editions themselves, thus leaving the burden of printing to the buyer but not forcing him or her to pay for a service they will not use?

For example, making access to the pdf files around 12-15$ and then the consumer would also pay for printing. This allows for more money to be added to the proverbial coffers for updates, art, writing, etc. and allow purchasers to choose specific games they want without a service fee simply for access to these editions. Seems like a reasonable comprimise from this end, even if the cost is raised a bit due to the addition of printing costs on the part of the consumer. Just curious to your response, as I cannot find this particularly addressed from the Filsinger Games end.

[gatekeeper]

Dude, just take what Tom and Kris give you. Jesus. You sound like a kid whining because your mom won't buy you a sucker.

You'll get what you get.

There won't be a pdf thing for each individual card.

Have you ever heard Kris or Tom mention that would be available? No. So there's your answer.

[swarm]

That needed to be said. Strong.

[gatekeeper]

mattpulido said:

Yeah, I worked at McDonalds. Wasn't a day that went by where someone didn't just by the toy. And you can also do things at McDonalds like order fries without salt, order a Quarter Pounder made like a Big Mac, and my personal favorite when I was working there, the hamburger with full condements but no bun. In fact the reason McNuggets are now all white meat is because of the sheer number of custiomers who would ask for only white meat nuggets when they had both white and dark meat.

And when my brother's DVD player remote went out I did go to Best Buy and "just purchase the remote." Best Buy accomidated me because I was a regular costumer and there was money to be made.

I had a point when i started this post, but then I went and made breakfast Maybe I'll remember it later.

Yeah, but people like that are SO ANNOYING.

Everyone hates people like that.

[krisosk]

hegemony said:

Would these alleviations of limits not still be possible by making the pdf only files of equal cost to the paper game editions themselves, thus leaving the burden of printing to the buyer but not forcing him or her to pay for a service they will not use?

For example, making access to the pdf files around 12-15$ and then the consumer would also pay for printing. This allows for more money to be added to the proverbial coffers for updates, art, writing, etc. and allow purchasers to choose specific games they want without a service fee simply for access to these editions. Seems like a reasonable comprimise from this end, even if the cost is raised a bit due to the addition of printing costs on the part of the consumer. Just curious to your response, as I cannot find this particularly addressed from the Filsinger Games end.

I mentioned earlier in this thread that the concept of the pdf printing (brought up by Pride initially, I believe) will be taken into consideration and is absolutely a possiblity for the future. A major move like that would have to be digested by Tom obviously before any official announcement were made.

Hegemony, when you use the phrase "forcing him or her to pay for a service they will not use" I think you may be missing the point of having aCe 2121 Online exclusive as a selling point. Our hopes are that even people who have already sworn off using COTGonline (like yourself), will purchase the product in order to obtain aCe 2121, and then hopefully enjoy COTGonline and become a supporter in the process. If you do not want to use it, you'll have the ability to print the cards out.

~ :-Xsk

[Hegemony]

gatekeeper said:

Dude, just take what Tom and Kris give you. Jesus. You sound like a kid whining because your mom won't buy you a sucker.

You'll get what you get.

There won't be a pdf thing for each individual card.

Have you ever heard Kris or Tom mention that would be available? No. So there's your answer.

Just take what they give you, without offering opinions on ways that things could be improved? How sad a world it would be if we were denied the ability to communicate our satisfaction or dissatisfaction with the choices we make.

We should all just accept our lot in life and not attempt to better our individual circumstances or situations according to Payback. If we are sold a product we should just gladly accept the product as is, even if there is a substantial flaw that could have been averted since we should never "talk back".

You disappoint me greatly good Payback, and I hope you are never placed in a situation where you blindly accept things as fact when you could have changed your situation for the better. Hopefully life will be kind to you, as if unfortunately has not been to so many others who have only improved their environment through actively seeking change. Good thing you were not a part of the Civil Rights Movement, the Feminist Movement, or any other project of social change throughout history, as any gains would have been nullified with attitudes like yours.

[gatekeeper]

hegemony said:

gatekeeper said:

Dude, just take what Tom and Kris give you. Jesus. You sound like a kid whining because your mom won't buy you a sucker.

You'll get what you get.

There won't be a pdf thing for each individual card.

Have you ever heard Kris or Tom mention that would be available? No. So there's your answer.

Just take what they give you, without offering opinions on ways that things could be improved? How sad a world it would be if we were denied the ability to communicate our satisfaction or dissatisfaction with the choices we make.

We should all just accept our lot in life and not attempt to better our individual circumstances or situations according to Payback. If we are sold a product we should just gladly accept the product as is, even if there is a substantial flaw that could have been averted since we should never "talk back".

You disappoint me greatly good Payback, and I hope you are never placed in a situation where you blindly accept things as fact when you could have changed your situation for the better. Hopefully life will be kind to you, as if unfortunately has not been to so many others who have only improved their environment through actively seeking change. Good thing you were not a part of the Civil Rights Movement, the Feminist Movement, or any other project of social change throughout history, as any gains would have been nullified with attitudes like yours.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT COTG!

I am a supporter of Civil Rights and that but this is a discussion about a paper card and online wrestling game.

I am disappointed that you would even compare something like the Feminist Movement and Civil Rights Movement to COTG.

Those were social barriers being broken down.

This is about a 20 dollar online version of a game that you don't want to pay for.

It's not the same thing. Not even close.

[GOODZILLA]

If you wanna get drunk, you gotta buy the beer.

[Hegemony]

gatekeeper said:

hegemony said:

Just take what they give you, without offering opinions on ways that things could be improved? How sad a world it would be if we were denied the ability to communicate our satisfaction or dissatisfaction with the choices we make.

We should all just accept our lot in life and not attempt to better our individual circumstances or situations according to Payback. If we are sold a product we should just gladly accept the product as is, even if there is a substantial flaw that could have been averted since we should never "talk back".

You disappoint me greatly good Payback, and I hope you are never placed in a situation where you blindly accept things as fact when you could have changed your situation for the better. Hopefully life will be kind to you, as if unfortunately has not been to so many others who have only improved their environment through actively seeking change. Good thing you were not a part of the Civil Rights Movement, the Feminist Movement, or any other project of social change throughout history, as any gains would have been nullified with attitudes like yours.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT COTG!

I am a supporter of Civil Rights and that but this is a discussion about a paper card and online wrestling game.

I am disappointed that you would even compare something like the Feminist Movement and Civil Rights Movement to COTG.

Those were social barriers being broken down.

This is about a 20 dollar online version of a game that you don't want to pay for.

It's not the same thing. Not even close.

Just pointing out the dangers inherent in the comments you expressed. Yours is a scary attitude in my opinion, and that was the point of my comparison.

[gatekeeper]

bad2begood said:

If you wanna get drunk, you gotta buy the beer.

Right on!

Goodzilla gets it.

[gatekeeper]

hegemony said:

gatekeeper said:

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT COTG!

I am a supporter of Civil Rights and that but this is a discussion about a paper card and online wrestling game.

I am disappointed that you would even compare something like the Feminist Movement and Civil Rights Movement to COTG.

Those were social barriers being broken down.

This is about a 20 dollar online version of a game that you don't want to pay for.

It's not the same thing. Not even close.

Just pointing out the dangers inherent in the comments you expressed. Yours is a scary attitude in my opinion, and that was the point of my comparison.

No it isn't. Your attitude is worse with complaining about something so trivial and the fact that you can still print out the cards anyways makes your arguement even more ridiculous.

[swarm]

gatekeeper said:

hegemony said:

Just take what they give you, without offering opinions on ways that things could be improved? How sad a world it would be if we were denied the ability to communicate our satisfaction or dissatisfaction with the choices we make.

We should all just accept our lot in life and not attempt to better our individual circumstances or situations according to Payback. If we are sold a product we should just gladly accept the product as is, even if there is a substantial flaw that could have been averted since we should never "talk back".

You disappoint me greatly good Payback, and I hope you are never placed in a situation where you blindly accept things as fact when you could have changed your situation for the better. Hopefully life will be kind to you, as if unfortunately has not been to so many others who have only improved their environment through actively seeking change. Good thing you were not a part of the Civil Rights Movement, the Feminist Movement, or any other project of social change throughout history, as any gains would have been nullified with attitudes like yours.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT COTG!

I am a supporter of Civil Rights and that but this is a discussion about a paper card and online wrestling game.

I am disappointed that you would even compare something like the Feminist Movement and Civil Rights Movement to COTG.

Those were social barriers being broken down.

This is about a 20 dollar online version of a game that you don't want to pay for.

It's not the same thing. Not even close.

Yeah you got to stop bringing race and politics into all your arguments it's a real turn off and takes away from the topic at hand. And it's offensive. I've been offended twice now for real in less than 48 hours from it so...

I would leave race and politics and religion and stuff out of this it's just an on-line wrestling game. C'mon.

[swarm]

gatekeeper said:

hegemony said:

Just pointing out the dangers inherent in the comments you expressed. Yours is a scary attitude in my opinion, and that was the point of my comparison.

No it isn't. Your attitude is worse with complaining about something so trivial and the fact that you can still print out the cards anyways makes your arguement even more ridiculous.

You just don't want to buy the game you just want to buy the cards and you can't.

If you could it would be called COTG PDF and not COTG ONLINE.

C'mon.