Not entirely happy

[Pride]

mattpulido said:

I'm man enough to accept your apology. I don't have a problem with you personally, I don't even remember seeing you post before last month. Not that you didn't, just saying that I don't know you so I couldn't have a problem with you personally. I stated my problem with what you said, you apologized, I accepted. Quite frankly it wouldn't have bothered me from another fan, but you represent Filsinger Games.

As far as my opinion not being supportive, I disagree. I support Filsinger Games. I enjoy thier products. I want to see thier continued success so that I can continue to enjoy those products.

As a fan and consumer, I consider it my duty to offer my opinion on product. I don't follow blindly. I give praise where it's due. If something doesn't appeal to me or I see problems with a proposal, I point that out as well.

I'm not anti-Online. I'm not against the idea. I just personally see more problems than perks and I hope that by pointing them out I may also be speaking for someone who agrees with me and we'll see those problems adressed. This is something that I have waited for for a long time. No one is more upset over the fact that I don't think I'll be buying it as currently proposed than me. As a consumer, if I can create change for the better than I feel I have to do so. I'm hopeing my opnions are being taken seriously and not just ignored as hateing.

I only want to see Filsinger Games put out the best product possible.

now that was well said.and thats the same point i was tring (felled at)to make.things tend to sell better if you keep it simple.but i do see both sides of the perks and flaws of COTG ON-LINE. and i was just tring to fight for the guy that wont or cant fight.ie the ones not on line are only have an few minutes at most to be online.think about it how about that guy the puts everything in to this game but only have maybe 30min on his lunch break to get access to an cumputer.do you think its proffitble for him to buy COTG ONLINE?why should he have to pay more money for an system that he cant use?or how about the good kid that lives home with mom and dad that dont understand or even like wrestling do you think his parents are going to allow him to buy "another on-line game little timmy i dont think so"?did you guys even think about that before you rushed in with this ideal of yours?did you even try to take an poll first to see the over all impact?i would of took the time and called everyone up first and got some real feed back.not just anouced it on the boards what about the guys and gals who dont even have internet.did you think about the impact you had on them and what they might tell there friends.COTG is an word of mouth game.i think it may have been better to let the feds died out if its going to segragate fans from an game it loves.

but any ways good job looking forward to COTG on-line cant wait to play.but i'll have to wait longer than others but when i do i hope you guys have an rumble system so i can play Pride and throw sombody out the ring ;D

[Trent Lawless]

Well, I wouldn't call the Online move "rushed" in any way. I know that this computer version has been talked about for years now. It just wasn't evident what form it would take. Economically, this is the best way it can be. Many of us would love a CD-ROM based platform that had graphics and sound and "career mode" and all that, but there isn't the money or corporate (meaning big computer gaming companies) interest to do it. And Filsinger Games certainly doesn't have the resources to go that route alone. Nor do they have the resources to conduct focus group-type settings to get a feel of what form things should take and what direction they should go. These guys have just asked a sampling of people what they'd like and then created a product from there. In this low-margin market, that's an acceptable approach to me. Besides, sometimes focus groups just confuse the hell out of the people conducting them, especially folks like us not entirely versed in the nuances of marketing philosophy. (I don't know about the other guys, but the number of credits I took toward my MBA is exactly zero!)

No product will satisfy every potential customer. Sad fact of business. I realize it every time I write a CPC set.

Kris, BDS, and everyone are doing a heck of a job pulling this all together and I for one am supporting it all the way, no matter what minor blemishes might appear. I understand that it's not for everyone, and I don't fault any skeptics in any way, either. But for me, this stuff rocks. I'm counting the days.

[Mr. Jimmyface]

I'm looking forward to CotGOnline, and can't wait to see what it can do. And the fact that you can print out the cards makes me glad that both types of players will have a chance to play the game in their favorite format.

By the way, Mark, as a former market researcher, I can tell you that it is not an exact science on both ends of the spectrum! Potential customers have no idea what the product is, and if the research questions are written or executed poorly, the results the manufacturers are looking for will be skewered. Remember that when it came to movie focus groups, both "License To Kill" and "UHF" remain two of the highest scoring test scores in movie history. Market research is, at best, a tool to guess what people really want.

That's the beauty of COTG - thanks to Tom, and more so than any other game, we ARE the R&D teams for the products!

[Hegemony]

Still not sure it has been addressed as to why the pdf files cannot be purchased separate from the COTG-Online package. This seems like a way to appease the desires of those who still want to play ACE and CPC sets without paying for a service they have no intention of using. And it doesn't seem like it would hurt production in any way, as there would be no printing involved. Just charge enought to cover expenses. This seemed to be what Pride was suggesting.

[swarm]

Because then what's next? People are going to start bitc*ing about "Well I don't like Monolith and I don't use him so why can't I just buy the cards I want to buy separately?"

This is a business. You get what you get. You don't go to best buy and say "Hey that's a great TV but I only really want the remote that comes with it."

Tom is going to sell COTG Online and one of the features that comes with it is printable cards. I guess if you don't buy COTG Online you don't get the cards. Seems simple and fair enough to me.

[swarm]

I'm on the phone with Payback and this is what he wants me to tell type to Hegemony:

"You don't go to MacDonalds and ask to just buy the toy that comes with the Happy Meal...you don't."

and

"It's not like COTG Online is going to cost a million dollars to play...it will be like 20 to 50 bucks. If you don't have 20 to 50 bucks then I guess oh well."

Strong points imo.

[Hegemony]

swarm said:

Because then what's next? People are going to start bitc*ing about "Well I don't like Monolith and I don't use him so why can't I just buy the cards I want to buy separately?"

This is a business. You get what you get. You don't go to [censored] best buy and say "Hey that's a great TV but I only really want the remote that comes with it." and wonder why the hell everyone is looking at you like an idiot.

Tom is going to sell COTG Online and one of the features that comes with it is printable cards. I guess if you don't buy COTG Online you don't get the cards. Seems simple and fair enough to me.

I thought one of the best things about COTG was that it was more than a business to Tom Filsinger. Since he has another job that pays the bills this game was free from the constraints placed on it by market conditions. As far as I understood it, as long as he isn't losing money on the game then the game was serving its purpose. I don't see how losing money would be an option if the Ace and CPC sets were available as pdf only editions independent of COTG-Online.

If I am wrong about this than I apologize, but I think that to Tom (going by his writings and the one time I have spoken with him) this is more than a business and therefore not entirely dependent on what is going to make the most profit. That's why the community is as strong as it is, because we all seem to feel that we are more than consumers, but actual participants in this wacky world of COTG.

[Hegemony]

swarm said:

I'm on the phone with Payback and this is what he wants me to tell type to Hegemony:

"You don't go to MacDonalds and ask to just buy the toy that comes with the Happy Meal...you don't."

and

"It's not like COTG Online is going to cost a million dollars to play...it will be like 20 to 50 bucks. If you don't have 20 to 50 bucks then I guess oh well."

Strong points imo.

Actually, you can purchase the toys separately, as I have purchased a Simpsons watch in the past and I refuse to eat Burger King. ;D

And I still find it reasonable that some may find paying a subscription to a service they won't use just to have access to these sets a bit disarming. Not saying it doesn't happen in other aspects of life, but that doesn't make it right necessarily either.

[Talison]

I am eagerly awaiting the demo. I have resolved myself to believe that I'm just not "getting" it since I am in the vast minority of people that don't think this is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I'm hopeing the demo will persuade me.

You don't think that it bothers me to be sitting here wondering why everyone is getting so excited over this when I don't see the appeal? It does. I love this game and this fan community and I enjoy being a part of it. By not "getting" online I almost feel left out of things.

Yes, I was in favor of a CD-Rom version. Not that I care about sound effects and graphics and careeer modes. I'm on record as saying color art isn't a selling point to me, so I'm not out for bells and whistles. I just think a program on my computer solvs many problems I am seeing with the whole endevor. It meens I'm not reliant on your bandwidth, on my internet status, or a million other technical problems. It meens, worst case senerio, that if the product desn't do well and goes away I still have something on my computer to show for the money I spent. A program where I input my own character data means a computer version of the game where I can use bootlegs or play Legends without legal entanglements that I can see.

So, like I said, I'm waiting for the demo. I'll be happy to say that I am wrong if the demo appeals to me.

[swarm]

I can't relate to your thoughts at all. This is more than a business to Tom of course but of course this IS STILL A BUSINESS.

Anyways it's already been mentioned several times that one of the reasons that aCe is exclusivly available on-line is so you buy COTG Online.

I guess Tom should just give the game away for free since it's "more than a business" to him.

[Hegemony]

swarm said:

I can't relate to your thoughts at all. This is more than a business to Tom of course but of course this IS STILL A BUSINESS.

Anyways it's already been mentioned several times that one of the reasons that aCe is exclusivly available on-line is so you buy COTG Online.

I guess Tom should just give the game away for free since it's "more than a business" to him.

I think you are being a bit extreme here. I am not saying that Tom should go the altruistic route and just ignore all business aspects of COTG. However, these aspects, to my understanding, have never been the primary determinant on what decisions are made regarding COTG. That is,unless these decsisions are COSTING Filsinger Games money. And it it is the case that aCe and CPC sets are being made exclusively online in order to sell more people on a service that they are uniinterested in, then this is bad business to be sure - very upset customer base.

[Talison]

Yeah, I worked at McDonalds. Wasn't a day that went by where someone didn't just by the toy. And you can also do things at McDonalds like order fries without salt, order a Quarter Pounder made like a Big Mac, and my personal favorite when I was working there, the hamburger with full condements but no bun. In fact the reason McNuggets are now all white meat is because of the sheer number of custiomers who would ask for only white meat nuggets when they had both white and dark meat.

And when my brother's DVD player remote went out I did go to Best Buy and "just purchase the remote." Best Buy accomidated me because I was a regular costumer and there was money to be made.

I had a point when i started this post, but then I went and made breakfast Maybe I'll remember it later.

[swarm]

What would you rather have? CPC and aCe ON-line...

or

nothing at all?

Because that was the other option before Kris apparently convinced Tom to keep aCe and now apparently CPC alive through COTG Online.

You should know this as you were at GCON just like I was.

[Hegemony]

swarm said:

What would you rather have? CPC and aCe ON-line...

or

nothing at all?

Because that was the other option before Kris apparently convinced Tom to keep aCe and now apparently CPC alive through COTG Online.

You should know this as you were at GCON just like I was.

I agree that something is better than nothing, all I am saying is that the system may not be perfect yet (something those in charge of the project readily admit) and there are aspects that could potentially appease those who are feeling like they are being forced into something they may not want. Just discussing options here.

[Talison]

It seems a few people are saying they would rather have nothing at all then pay for a service they don't want. I don't play aCe or CPC so it doesn't effect me.

Your being at GCON is irelevant. Not being able to attend the convention for any number of reasons doesn't make anyone any less of a fan.

[swarm]

mattpulido said:

Yeah, I worked at McDonalds. Wasn't a day that went by where someone didn't just by the toy. And you can also do things at McDonalds like order fries without salt, order a Quarter Pounder made like a Big Mac, and my personal favorite when I was working there, the hamburger with full condements but no bun. In fact the reason McNuggets are now all white meat is because of the sheer number of custiomers who would ask for only white meat nuggets when they had both white and dark meat.

And when my brother's DVD player remote went out I did go to Best Buy and "just purchase the remote." Best Buy accomidated me because I was a regular costumer and there was money to be made.

I had a point when i started this post, but then I went and made breakfast Maybe I'll remember it later.

I think it's best I just stay out of this as COTG Online is Kris and Tom's thing and whatever I say here is just my opinion but right now I am really turned off at how cheap you guys posts are coming off as.

[Talison]

Cheap? How am I coming off as cheap?

[swarm]

mattpulido said:

Your being at GCON is irelevant. Not being able to attend the convention for any number of reasons doesn't make anyone any less of a fan.

No you're not understanding me. It was announced at GCON that CPC and aCe would soon come to an end and Hegemony knows that because he was there as was I.

That's all I'm saying do you even read the whole post?

[Talison]

Sorry, I read it quickly. My mistake. But I knew they were coming to an end and I wasn't there.

[swarm]

mattpulido said:

Cheap? How am I coming off as cheap?

Not you so much as your post about people going into Macdonalds just to buy the toys. I just turns my stomach. I don't know why. It just seems so cheap.

But the friggin $3 meal you cheap-skate. Again not you, the people you talk about in your post. Just seems like white-trash christmas shopping to me.