|
|
Post by Joe on Feb 5, 2008 15:23:37 GMT -5
I would tend to disagree that no one meant to insult Neal. It was pointed out in the second post of the thread he was Alex's friend. It was pointed out in the fourth(I believe) that he was 14 when did the drawing.
The original poster did proceed to continue about how he thought the artwork sucked and lacked professionalism.
That is called insulting.
I do agree with Chewey that it was obvious that the card was a fan-made product its description.
Furthermore, I don't think anyone has any room to be critical of Tom for not catering enough to the people who play his game because of things like not posting pictures of all the special edition cards. Some of the SE cards do not have stat-changes, so wouldn't posting the art to a card with the same back basically encourage people to scan the art and make their own SE card?
|
|
|
|
Post by jefft on Feb 5, 2008 15:27:31 GMT -5
Seriously, just to diffuse the bootlegger vs. anti-bootlegger argument, I think it's pretty distasteful that a bunch of grown men would have such nasty things to say about a 14-year old's creation. Just imagine if you were 14, how pumped would you be that your best friend's father promoted your card through his website? Just lay off the kid.. he did a great job, and nobody needs to go hurting people's feelings or anything like that. Please show me exactly where the direct insult came from. I think I read 'disappointed by the art" and "not professional" at different points. The first statement really and truly equates to 'saying nasty things' in your mind? The second statement is a plain and simple fact that could only possibly be misconstrued as nasty if maybe the reader already decided he was going to see it in a negative light. Furthermore, 'distaste' actually enters your mind here. Dude, maybe if the guy came out by actually with actual attacks and insults. He asked a question and basically misunderstood the situation from the get go. Not to mention repeatedly (and unnecessarily in my view) posted that he never intended any insult. |
|
|
|
Post by dvdmorse on Feb 5, 2008 15:31:18 GMT -5
Don't understand that logic. Maybe YOU'VE purchased every single COTG product $2 and under (which essentially is what you're suggesting), but I don't see why everyone should. No one insulted a little kid here, fellas. Lets chill and not be so defensive. Give peace a chance....  The point is, you are being over-critical of a drawing of a character that isn't an "official" character. And, it only costs $2.00 If you feel you've been cheated out of a "professional" art at the expense of 8 quarters, that's sad (I'm not sure you can buy anyone's actual professional art for $2). You are being silly here, Payback. I said in the very first post that it only cost me five dollars (for the two cards), so it was not a big deal. I never complained about the money. I never exactly complained about anything. You are reacting instead of reading now. But personally, when I read the description on the website that "RUSH is fast becoming a popular character in the CotG underground movement," I automatically assumed that it was a fan-made character. It seems relatively clear to me, but then again, maybe it wasn't so clear to others. But the other art sold on the website is still more professional. Werner's stuff is better than some of the official cards. The create-a-character cards were drawn by CotG artists. This one is different. All I said was that, from a business standpoint, it would be nice to indicate that difference. It does not stop Tom from doing something nice for Neil. There is no insult of Neil or of Tom here. It would simply be a good idea to let people know when they are buying something that is not what they expect--five dollars or not. That was the whole point, apart from the title of the thread--simply seeking an explanation, as I did not know the story behind the card. Don't make this into something that it is not. It is not a complaint. It is not an insult. It is not some deep analysis of Neil's art of of Tom's business practices. It was a question and an observation. That's it. |
|
|
|
Post by jefft on Feb 5, 2008 15:32:31 GMT -5
Yeah, you do have a point. I didn't even realize that people were dogging art done by a 14 year old. For god's sake..c'mon people. Its almost comical now. Please point out specifically when these terrible tragedies occurred. No offense, but if you actually find comments that you actually consider 'dogging', attacks, trying to insult, whatever...I'd advise working on your skin thickness. |
|
|
|
Post by dvdmorse on Feb 5, 2008 15:41:38 GMT -5
I would tend to disagree that no one meant to insult Neal. It was pointed out in the second post of the thread he was Alex's friend. It was pointed out in the fourth(I believe) that he was 14 when did the drawing. The original poster did proceed to continue about how he thought the artwork sucked and lacked professionalism. That is called insulting. I do agree with Chewey that it was obvious that the card was a fan-made product its description. Furthermore, I don't think anyone has any room to be critical of Tom for not catering enough to the people who play his game because of things like not posting pictures of all the special edition cards. Some of the SE cards do not have stat-changes, so wouldn't posting the art to a card with the same back basically encourage people to scan the art and make their own SE card? Please show where I said the artwork "sucked." I am quite sure I never did. I said it was not on the same level as that of the other cards sold on the website. I would think that is obvious. I never asked for all artwork to be posted on the website, though I am not sure I see the harm for the SE cards--after all, you still do not have the stats posted. But I was talking about doing so for these specific cards, as they are a clear exception to the standard artistic quality of CotG products. But since people are extrapolating to this degree, they are not really even reading what is actually being said anymore, so this discussion is sort of silly. I will simply let my comments from a business standpoint stand as they are. Neil, if you read this, I apologize for anything that may have seemed offensive to you. I never meant to insult you in any way. I am currently using your second card in one of my feds, and I like the character. |
|
|
|
Post by jefft on Feb 5, 2008 15:43:45 GMT -5
Okay, I understand the sentiments on both sides here. Nobody here intends to insult a teenager for his drawing. However, these comments are on a public message board in which he visits sometimes. I've seen him here before. This is also the reason why some people are jumping in to stick up for him, because they know him personally from seeing him at Galacticon every year. So let's just try to be mindful of that.. ...and he's how old right now? Still trying to find the insults everyone keeps mentioning. Then there's the handful of attempts by the person supposedly doing the insulting clearly explaining no insult was intended. Closest thing to insults in this thread have been thrown by those 'stick up for him". Perfect example of perception there - Original poster is apparently 'insulting', others are just 'sticking up for somebody'. Don't forget also to be mindful of what someone is, umm, actually saying and the manner in which they say it. |
|
|
|
Post by jefft on Feb 5, 2008 16:03:29 GMT -5
The original poster did proceed to continue about how he thought the artwork sucked and lacked professionalism. That is called insulting. I do agree with Chewey that it was obvious that the card was a fan-made product its description. Furthermore, I don't think anyone has any room to be critical of Tom for not catering enough to the people who play his game because of things like not posting pictures of all the special edition cards. Some of the SE cards do not have stat-changes, so wouldn't posting the art to a card with the same back basically encourage people to scan the art and make their own SE card? *Seriously starts to wonder if anybody actually bothered to read comments in this thread* - Did not say 'sucked', obviously. Said other art is usually better...and he said it in a questioning matter without understanding the actual situation. Honestly, purposely twisting all that into 'saying it sucked' only reflects poorly on you. If you actually have an argument to make then using the actual dialogue shouldn't be a problem. - Said he'd come to expect professional art...didn't say 'lacked professionalism'. The latter leans more toward directing negativity in a certain direction. Fact - art in question wasn't professional. - Wow. Discussing that SE art maybe be made available to look at before purchase is now being 'critical of Tom'. Y'know what, I'll just leave it there. - Then you end with that last sentence about scanning. See dude, nothing wrong there. Valid point really. Next time just try responding to ideas you disagree with a simple counterargument like that. Maybe now I should twist everything negative and say your idea suggests that I would try to steal from Tom? I guess if someone decides they want to see negativity and attacks, they'll find some way to make it happen. |
|
|
|
Post by theace2008 on Feb 5, 2008 16:18:53 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by gatekeeper on Feb 5, 2008 16:57:52 GMT -5
Okay, I understand the sentiments on both sides here. Nobody here intends to insult a teenager for his drawing. However, these comments are on a public message board in which he visits sometimes. I've seen him here before. This is also the reason why some people are jumping in to stick up for him, because they know him personally from seeing him at Galacticon every year. So let's just try to be mindful of that.. ...and he's how old right now? Still trying to find the insults everyone keeps mentioning. Then there's the handful of attempts by the person supposedly doing the insulting clearly explaining no insult was intended. Closest thing to insults in this thread have been thrown by those 'stick up for him". Perfect example of perception there - Original poster is apparently 'insulting', others are just 'sticking up for somebody'. Don't forget also to be mindful of what someone is, umm, actually saying and the manner in which they say it. You were saying how the art was bad. It's not. Plain and simple. Your reaction should've been, "Oh, Alex Filsinger's friend (who was 14 at the time) drew Rush. Great job for someone in Middle School! He must really love the game and Tom is awesome for letting him have his character come to life." Instead it was - "I was expecting professional artistry for something that costs $2.00" |
|
|
|
Post by Trent Lawless on Feb 5, 2008 17:23:51 GMT -5
So I'm confused. Which of these guys is Rush?   |
|
|
|
Post by theace2008 on Feb 5, 2008 17:26:55 GMT -5
So I'm confused. Which of these guys is Rush? Post of the day... |
|
|
|
Post by Chewey on Feb 5, 2008 17:28:21 GMT -5
But personally, when I read the description on the website that "RUSH is fast becoming a popular character in the CotG underground movement," I automatically assumed that it was a fan-made character. It seems relatively clear to me, but then again, maybe it wasn't so clear to others. But the other art sold on the website is still more professional. Werner's stuff is better than some of the official cards. The create-a-character cards were drawn by CotG artists. This one is different. All I said was that, from a business standpoint, it would be nice to indicate that difference. It does not stop Tom from doing something nice for Neil. There is no insult of Neil or of Tom here. It would simply be a good idea to let people know when they are buying something that is not what they expect--five dollars or not. That was the whole point, apart from the title of the thread--simply seeking an explanation, as I did not know the story behind the card. Don't make this into something that it is not. It is not a complaint. It is not an insult. It is not some deep analysis of Neil's art of of Tom's business practices. It was a question and an observation. That's it. Hey, I'm cool with that. This statement above explains everything completely. Thanks. |
|
|
|
Post by jefft on Feb 5, 2008 18:00:44 GMT -5
...and he's how old right now? Still trying to find the insults everyone keeps mentioning. Then there's the handful of attempts by the person supposedly doing the insulting clearly explaining no insult was intended. Closest thing to insults in this thread have been thrown by those 'stick up for him". Perfect example of perception there - Original poster is apparently 'insulting', others are just 'sticking up for somebody'. Don't forget also to be mindful of what someone is, umm, actually saying and the manner in which they say it. You were saying how the art was bad. It's not. Plain and simple. Your reaction should've been, "Oh, Alex Filsinger's friend (who was 14 at the time) drew Rush. Great job for someone in Middle School! He must really love the game and Tom is awesome for letting him have his character come to life." Instead it was - "I was expecting professional artistry for something that costs $2.00" Again, you're confused. dvdmorse said the $2 comment, not me. Beating a dead horse still but...nobody said art was bad. At all. Anywhere. Ever. Its like people are deliberately messing around or something now. Is this the Twilight Zone?  |
|
|
|
Post by Dragon Breath on Feb 5, 2008 18:15:59 GMT -5
Still trying to find the insults everyone keeps mentioning. Then there's the handful of attempts by the person supposedly doing the insulting clearly explaining no insult was intended. Closest thing to insults in this thread have been thrown by those 'stick up for him". Perfect example of perception there - Original poster is apparently 'insulting', others are just 'sticking up for somebody'. Don't forget also to be mindful of what someone is, umm, actually saying and the manner in which they say it. Maybe you didn't insult anyone in this thread. However, you have displayed a complete lack of sensitivity throughout this thread. From what I've seen, Tom goes out of his way to encourage this community to participate and truely be a part of his creation. Some of the ways he has done this is through Promoter Madness, Create a Character, the development of COTG online, and his support to the bootleg community. Most of us understand this and support those who put themselves out there and add to the COTG Universe. I have a Rush card and I hold it in the same regard as any other card I have in my collection, and I appreciate the effort that was put into it. I've gotten a lot of enjoyment from playing a game that has storylines and characters created by people much more creative than me and drawn by artists much more talented than me. I guess what I am trying to say is that maybe you didn't insult anyone in your posts. It doesn't change the fact that some of us find some of the sentiment expressed in those posts insulting. |
|
|
|
Post by DMK II on Feb 5, 2008 18:35:01 GMT -5
Yeah, you do have a point. I didn't even realize that people were dogging art done by a 14 year old. For god's sake..c'mon people. Its almost comical now. Please point out specifically when these terrible tragedies occurred. No offense, but if you actually find comments that you actually consider 'dogging', attacks, trying to insult, whatever...I'd advise working on your skin thickness. I take everything I read on this site with a grain of salt. If I didn't I'd be in big trouble. But thanks for your concern on the matter. As far as my post goes, I never actually mentioned your name anywhere in it and it wasn't directed at you. Sorry if there was any confusion on that front. |
|
|
|
Post by dvdmorse on Feb 5, 2008 19:09:41 GMT -5
Still trying to find the insults everyone keeps mentioning. Then there's the handful of attempts by the person supposedly doing the insulting clearly explaining no insult was intended. Closest thing to insults in this thread have been thrown by those 'stick up for him". Perfect example of perception there - Original poster is apparently 'insulting', others are just 'sticking up for somebody'. Don't forget also to be mindful of what someone is, umm, actually saying and the manner in which they say it. Maybe you didn't insult anyone in this thread. However, you have displayed a complete lack of sensitivity throughout this thread. From what I've seen, Tom goes out of his way to encourage this community to participate and truely be a part of his creation. Some of the ways he has done this is through Promoter Madness, Create a Character, the development of COTG online, and his support to the bootleg community. Most of us understand this and support those who put themselves out there and add to the COTG Universe. I have a Rush card and I hold it in the same regard as any other card I have in my collection, and I appreciate the effort that was put into it. I've gotten a lot of enjoyment from playing a game that has storylines and characters created by people much more creative than me and drawn by artists much more talented than me. I guess what I am trying to say is that maybe you didn't insult anyone in your posts. It doesn't change the fact that some of us find some of the sentiment expressed in those posts insulting. Well, I guess if people want to look for something to be insulted by, you can't stop them. And you also can't control it when people read in sentiments that you never intended or felt. As for appreciating the creativity of others, or appreciating Tom's willingness to embrace it, I agree with you. I have felt the same way since I started playing this game--17 years ago (apparently before Neil was even born ). I'm not sure of what that has to do with anything I have posted, but I do agree with you, in any case. |
|
|
|
Post by Trent Lawless on Feb 5, 2008 20:14:41 GMT -5
Nobody's answered my question yet. And after further research, I'm even more confused...  |
|
|
|
Post by theace2008 on Feb 5, 2008 20:37:12 GMT -5
Nobody's answered my question yet. And after further research, I'm even more confused... Are you sure you arent seeking ABBA there? Oh wait... |
|
|
|
Post by Trent Lawless on Feb 5, 2008 21:06:10 GMT -5
I think it's the guy with the mustache, because the other two quite possibly are girls.
|
|
|
|
Post by Swarm on Feb 5, 2008 21:07:43 GMT -5
If I ever get this assed-up about five bucks I would shoot myself in the face.
|
|
