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Post by Aquinas on Mar 13, 2007 8:32:06 GMT -5
Shoulders on the mat for a 3-count is kind of hard to refute. He was pinned.
Christian has more upside than Joe as a champion anyway. I'm glad they kept the strap on him.
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Post by Splattercat on Mar 13, 2007 12:22:29 GMT -5
I'm not exactly refuting it...note the part where I said "Not that it matters"...I just thought of that after the fact that I brought up the Piper/Hart ending...Maybe instead of saying "Joe didn't lose" I should have put it "Joe has a possible story-related excuse for a rematch, and they could make up some loophole based on wherever Piper got it from"...Guess I was in a hurry... Anyway, the match itself was really good...Christian was awesome and got dominated like a pro...Joe was awesome and kicked his ass like a pro....They both did their parts, and they used the old "Outmatched heel outsmarts his opponent" approach...I like that in a match... Again, not that it matters...Just saying..  |
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Post by Wildfire on Mar 13, 2007 12:28:52 GMT -5
I really wonder why Joe has gone exclusive to TNA... he's really been JTTS more than a main eventer of late.
I think Christian carrying the title works well, and they can go with that for a while, if they'd groom a face or two to challenge him (Daniels maybe, or Starr, or even Sting if they have to)
I think Angle and Joe have been getting far too much air time for guys that aren't champs.
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Post by swarm on Mar 13, 2007 12:40:47 GMT -5
I'm not exactly refuting it...note the part where I said "Not that it matters"...I just thought of that after the fact that I brought up the Piper/Hart ending...Maybe instead of saying "Joe didn't lose" I should have put it "Joe has a possible story-related excuse for a rematch, and they could make up some loophole based on wherever Piper got it from"...Guess I was in a hurry... Anyway, the match itself was really good...Christian was awesome and got dominated like a pro...Joe was awesome and kicked his butt like a pro....They both did their parts, and they used the old "Outmatched heel outsmarts his opponent" approach...I like that in a match... Again, not that it matters...Just saying.. That is terrible booking. The heel isn't supposed to out-smart the face...Joe is already fat if they book him to be stupid now he's fat and stupid. He's basically Shock Master right now but fatter. |
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Post by blueraider2 on Mar 13, 2007 12:45:12 GMT -5
besides wouldn't the heel cheat to gain the upper hand ?
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Post by Aquinas on Mar 13, 2007 12:48:22 GMT -5
Heels cheating to get the upper hand is tried and true booking. That's why they are heels. They are generally good enough to win outright, but still resort to illegal tactics. Ric Flair was the best in the business back in the day, but he still had the Horseman running in and helping him win (or bailing him out of defeat)....not to mention the well-timed crotch shot or feet on the ropes.
I have zero problem with a good heel like Christian using such tactics to beat Joe. It fits perfectly.
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Post by swarm on Mar 13, 2007 13:07:23 GMT -5
That's a cheap way to close out a PPV though...feet on the ropes? Joe is this bad a** but he can't kick out of a roll-up with feet on the ropes? I have no problem with Christian cheating to win but if Joe is this unstoppable force they try to make him out to be the least they could have done was have a ref bump and have him get opened up with a few chair shots to at least protect him a little...
but feet on the ropes? C'mon. That makes him look stupid and weak.
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Post by Aquinas on Mar 13, 2007 13:11:04 GMT -5
That's a cheap way to close out a PPV though...feet on the ropes? Joe is this bad a** but he can't kick out of a roll-up with feet on the ropes? I have no problem with Christian cheating to win but if Joe is this unstoppable force they try to make him out to be the least they could have done was have a ref bump and have him get opened up with a few chair shots to at least protect him a little... but feet on the ropes? C'mon. That makes him look stupid and weak. I agree about the making the unstoppable force look bad -- and I guess I'm just not sure he fits that bill anymore. That worked fine when he was undefeated....but they seem to be getting away from that now that he's had a few losses under his immense belt. I don't know if they are giving up on that or not. I've never especially liked Joe, so I'm not troubled by it either way. I certainly don't feel he should carry the company. Someone like Styles or Daniels, absolutely....but not some pudge with Elvis sideburns. "I got long sideburns and my hair slicked back, I'm coming to your town to eat your pink Cadillac, I'm just Samoa Joe I'm fat, I'm ugly and I'm bad." |
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Post by swarm on Mar 13, 2007 14:02:01 GMT -5
Great post. I said a long time ago that TNA has given up on Joe and I really think they have...and for good reasons...he's no pro. He is mid card fodder at best at this point in his career...if even that...he may end up being like 99% of every other guy to come from ROH and prove himself to be no better than Indy circuit garbage who has zero chance of ever really making it in this business...
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Post by dukedave on Mar 13, 2007 14:26:18 GMT -5
"I got long sideburns and my hair slicked back, I'm coming to your town to eat your pink Cadillac, I'm just Samoa Joe I'm fat, I'm ugly and I'm bad." That would be Sweet. I'd mark out for the Samoa Joe Man. |
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Post by Aquinas on Mar 13, 2007 14:37:22 GMT -5
Great post. I said a long time ago that TNA has given up on Joe and I really think they have...and for good reasons...he's no pro. He is mid card fodder at best at this point in his career...if even that...he may end up being like 99% of every other guy to come from ROH and prove himself to be no better than Indy circuit garbage who has zero chance of ever really making it in this business... I preface this by not having ever seen ROH and only first getting into TNA last year, but I've never "gotten" the appeal of Joe. I don't think guys need to be in ripped shape to be big names, but he doesn't even look menacing because of it. He's solid in the ring but not remarkable. I just don't get it. They ought to push the hell out of guys like Styles who are phenomenal (bad pun) in the ring and solid on the mic. Keep Joe around as a mid-carder, but keep him out of the title race for now. |
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Post by swarm on Mar 13, 2007 14:49:58 GMT -5
I agree. Styles and Daniels need to be the top face and top heel in TNA. Always should have been.  |
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Post by ewt on Mar 13, 2007 14:51:55 GMT -5
That's a cheap way to close out a PPV though...feet on the ropes? Joe is this bad a** but he can't kick out of a roll-up with feet on the ropes? I have no problem with Christian cheating to win but if Joe is this unstoppable force they try to make him out to be the least they could have done was have a ref bump and have him get opened up with a few chair shots to at least protect him a little... but feet on the ropes? C'mon. That makes him look stupid and weak. I seem to recall a all time great champion (Bruno) being beate with the old foot on the ropes trick(Superstar). I LOVE the move. |
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Post by swarm on Mar 13, 2007 14:55:22 GMT -5
That's a cheap way to close out a PPV though...feet on the ropes? Joe is this bad a** but he can't kick out of a roll-up with feet on the ropes? I have no problem with Christian cheating to win but if Joe is this unstoppable force they try to make him out to be the least they could have done was have a ref bump and have him get opened up with a few chair shots to at least protect him a little... but feet on the ropes? C'mon. That makes him look stupid and weak. I seem to recall a all time great champion (Bruno) being beate with the old foot on the ropes trick(Superstar). I LOVE the move. That was like 100 years ago though. And...LOL...(not at you...)...but...Fat Joe is no Bruno...  |
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Post by Wildfire on Mar 13, 2007 15:03:31 GMT -5
I agree. Styles and Daniels need to be the top face and top heel in TNA. Always should have been. I also agree 100% I think TNA needs to decide if they want to make it with their own talent, or be WCW 2007. They've been choosing the latter, and its not working, IMO. As to Joe, he puts on some great matches in RoH, and has more personality than he's shown in TNA, IMO. In TNA is just gonna use him to Job to the top stars, they should just let RoH have him and let Rhino do all the jobbing. I would like to see TNA focus on the X-Division and tag wrestling, have longer matches, and make themselves DIFFERENT from WWE. Styles, Daniels, Shelley, Starr, and Homicide should be the top guys, not Steiner, Angle and Sting. The problem is, the ratings have inched up since they've got to Russo, so I can't see the direction changing. |
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Post by Tournament Master on Mar 13, 2007 16:53:59 GMT -5
As to Joe, he puts on some great matches in RoH, and has more personality than he's shown in TNA, IMO. In TNA is just gonna use him to Job to the top stars, they should just let RoH have him and let Rhino do all the jobbing. However, I'm sure Joe is more than happy to continue to cash the TNA checks, even if he is jobbing out all the time now. |
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Post by swarm on Mar 13, 2007 17:53:40 GMT -5
As to Joe, he puts on some great matches in RoH, and has more personality than he's shown in TNA, IMO. In TNA is just gonna use him to Job to the top stars, they should just let RoH have him and let Rhino do all the jobbing. However, I'm sure Joe is more than happy to continue to cash the TNA checks, even if he is jobbing out all the time now. Which is also why one day Joe will wrestle for Vince and get jobbed out and take it. I can't wait. |
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Post by LWPD on Mar 13, 2007 19:22:28 GMT -5
Which is also why one day Joe will wrestle for Vince and get jobbed out and take it. I can't wait. Samoa Joe's already worked jobber matches for VKM a few years ago. Most of them were just 'dark' enhancement sprints...the one below is a rare 4 minute squash that aired on one of the B Shows. When SJ failed his try out with the WWE the agents were brutally honest with him about his prospects as a money talent...and back then he looked a lot slimmer and more fit than he does now. Always keep this in mind whenever assessing his public comments about 'not wanting' to go to WWE. Essa Rios vs Samoa Joe 3/3/01 |
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Post by Joe on Mar 13, 2007 20:16:32 GMT -5
Which is also why one day Joe will wrestle for Vince and get jobbed out and take it. I can't wait. Samoa Joe's already worked jobber matches for VKM a few years ago. Most of them were just 'dark' enhancement sprints...the one below is a rare 4 minute squash that aired on one of the B Shows. When SJ failed his try out with the WWE the agents were brutally honest with him about his prospects as a money talent...and back then he looked a lot slimmer and more fit than he does now. Always keep this in mind whenever assessing his public comments about 'not wanting' to go to WWE. Essa Rios vs Samoa Joe 3/3/01 This backs up the point that I have made numerous times. If Samoa Joe really had no desire to work for WWE (other than possibly AJ Styles' logic of, "If they want me now at one price, give me a couple years to become a bigger star while my wife finishes college, and they will pay me even more money then"), then why would he have ever worked out for them in the first place? |
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Post by swarm on Mar 13, 2007 20:25:56 GMT -5
Which is also why one day Joe will wrestle for Vince and get jobbed out and take it. I can't wait. Samoa Joe's already worked jobber matches for VKM a few years ago. Most of them were just 'dark' enhancement sprints...the one below is a rare 4 minute squash that aired on one of the B Shows. When SJ failed his try out with the WWE the agents were brutally honest with him about his prospects as a money talent...and back then he looked a lot slimmer and more fit than he does now. Always keep this in mind whenever assessing his public comments about 'not wanting' to go to WWE. Essa Rios vs Samoa Joe 3/3/01  BEST...............................POST.........................................................EVER. edit: also quoted for hilarious fact. |
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