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Post by Chris Ingersoll on May 19, 2006 15:03:51 GMT -5
I remember a lot of people being hyped about the re-signing of Jamal because they thought it was going to lead to a 3 Minute Warning reunion. People talked about what a huge upside Jamal had and how he had been mastering his craft in various places. Seriously, there was very little, if any, criticism of him. Then WWE released Rosie, thus bringing an end to the IWC's hopes for 3MW reunion. Instead, WWE unleashed Umaga onto the scene. Now I hear he sucks. Now I read he's sloppy and reckless in the ring. Now I read experts and insiders like Tommy Brownell call him "lucky and protected," and question his toughness. I could be wrong, but from where I sit the only thing that has changed about Jamal is the way WWE is packaging him. Internet wrestling fans criticize other, less-informed fans for being "mindless sheep" for liking what Vince pushes at them, but aren't the fans who are now critical of a guy they once praised just because Vince is pushing him guilty of the same thing, only in reverse? Kindly point out to me where in those threads -- or anywhere else -- people were praising Jamal in any context other than him being a part of 3MW. There was some talk about him being considered the "top gaijin in Japan" (note: "top" is not the same as "best"), but all hopes about him coming stateside were firmly centered around him and Rosey bolstering one of the WWE's lagging tag divisions, not around him squashing nobodies* on RAW with a weak gimmick straight out of the 80s and a finisher that is seemingly never the same move twice. *And Ric Flair |
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Post by poisonshadows on May 19, 2006 15:27:04 GMT -5
Now I read experts and insiders like Tommy Brownell call him "lucky and protected," and question his toughness. I really hesitate to say anything in this thread, because I think it represents a good part of the very worst of the Internet in general, and this forum in particular. However, in Tommy's defense, I don't think he was trying to pass himself off as an insider, nor coming out and saying that Oooooooooooomaga is lucky or protected. I think he was just offering a potenial analysis of his time so far, and was probably doing it in a fairly tongue-in-cheek manner. It was a specific response to another poster, not an over-reaching assertion, nor (I expect) a serious assessment of his performance. I don't know Tommy as well as some of you, but I think I know enough about him to say that he has nothing but respect for anyone who has reached a level of success sufficient to get him regular exposure on TV, regardless of the number of sides on the ring, the quality of the opponents he faces, or how many matches he loses. |
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Post by swarm on May 19, 2006 15:30:00 GMT -5
I remember a lot of people being hyped about the re-signing of Jamal because they thought it was going to lead to a 3 Minute Warning reunion. People talked about what a huge upside Jamal had and how he had been mastering his craft in various places. Seriously, there was very little, if any, criticism of him. Then WWE released Rosie, thus bringing an end to the IWC's hopes for 3MW reunion. Instead, WWE unleashed Umaga onto the scene. Now I hear he sucks. Now I read he's sloppy and reckless in the ring. Now I read experts and insiders like Tommy Brownell call him "lucky and protected," and question his toughness. I could be wrong, but from where I sit the only thing that has changed about Jamal is the way WWE is packaging him. Internet wrestling fans criticize other, less-informed fans for being "mindless sheep" for liking what Vince pushes at them, but aren't the fans who are now critical of a guy they once praised just because Vince is pushing him guilty of the same thing, only in reverse? Kindly point out to me where in those threads -- or anywhere else -- people were praising Jamal in any context other than him being a part of 3MW. There was some talk about him being considered the "top gaijin in Japan" (note: "top" is not the same as "best"), but all hopes about him coming stateside were firmly centered around him and Rosey bolstering one of the WWE's lagging tag divisions, not around him squashing nobodies* on RAW with a weak gimmick straight out of the 80s and a finisher that is seemingly never the same move twice. *And Ric Flair praise is praise regardless of how a guy is used. I don't remember anyone saying he would suck as a singles star while praising the 3MW team returning. |
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Post by Joe on May 19, 2006 15:34:05 GMT -5
I remember a lot of people being hyped about the re-signing of Jamal because they thought it was going to lead to a 3 Minute Warning reunion. People talked about what a huge upside Jamal had and how he had been mastering his craft in various places. Seriously, there was very little, if any, criticism of him. Then WWE released Rosie, thus bringing an end to the IWC's hopes for 3MW reunion. Instead, WWE unleashed Umaga onto the scene. Now I hear he sucks. Now I read he's sloppy and reckless in the ring. Now I read experts and insiders like Tommy Brownell call him "lucky and protected," and question his toughness. I could be wrong, but from where I sit the only thing that has changed about Jamal is the way WWE is packaging him. Internet wrestling fans criticize other, less-informed fans for being "mindless sheep" for liking what Vince pushes at them, but aren't the fans who are now critical of a guy they once praised just because Vince is pushing him guilty of the same thing, only in reverse? Kindly point out to me where in those threads -- or anywhere else -- people were praising Jamal in any context other than him being a part of 3MW. There was some talk about him being considered the "top gaijin in Japan" (note: "top" is not the same as "best"), but all hopes about him coming stateside were firmly centered around him and Rosey bolstering one of the WWE's lagging tag divisions, not around him squashing nobodies* on RAW with a weak gimmick straight out of the 80s and a finisher that is seemingly never the same move twice. *And Ric Flair Most everyone in the posts does say that they liked Jamal and/or 3 Minute Warning. Throw in the respect that most seem to have for Japanese wrestling, then you see where I would conclude that he was well thought of. Actually, I was speaking in general terms of what I had read on this and a couple others sites pertaining to Jamal, not specifically pointing out that Tommy had once said he thought Jamal was great. |
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Post by gatekeeper on May 19, 2006 15:39:39 GMT -5
I still don't get why people dog Masters. I'm guessing you didn't order Backlash, where he completely forgot to kick out at one point of the match. Or that you missed the RAW where Carlito officially turned on him: Masters was supposed to be out cold and Carlito was going to spit the apple on him; when Carlito couldn't find the apple, Masters actually started looking for it instead of continuing to play dead. The simple truth is the guy is clearly not ready for primetime, especially not on live TV. If the WWE does a draft this year, he needs some pre-taped protection until he loses his raw greeness. I saw Backlash and if we're going to say guys suck because they miss a spot, ok fine. But then, every wrestler has then sucked at some point in their career because they didn't do everything perfect. I agree that Masters is not ready to be the top guy. He reminds me of Cena. A few years ago when Lesner was champ and went against Cena, I thought they were giving the belt to Cena. Cena missed a few spots in the match and it was very obvious. So, I knew he wasn't quite ready to be on top but you could see the potential was there and that's what I see in Masters. (who BTW, is way younger now than Cena was during his big push so that shows that WWE/Vince see a lot of upside to this guy!) |
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Post by Splattercat on May 19, 2006 16:21:17 GMT -5
Just got a few seconds here, but wanted to throw my two cents in about Chris Masters...
You know who Chris Masters reminds me of..? Mark Jindrak, Sean O'Haire, Chuck Palumbo, Shawn (sp) Stasiak...That's right...Chris Masters is a Natural Born Thriller...
Sorry, but he ain't goin' nowhere...
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Post by floydthebarber on May 19, 2006 17:21:05 GMT -5
Maybe some of the fans who liked him in 3MW and in Japan just don't like his new gimic and how he's being pushed (as a copy/mockery of Joe) in WWE. In my eyes, a gimic like Umaga's has a limited shelf life with even the best of writers...would I like it more if he was jumping Carlito from behind crates backstage and not squashing no name dudes on RAW when you NEVER see no name dudes on RAW...maybe.
Would I like it more if I wasn't a TNA fan or a more 'happy' WWE fan...maybe...but I think some of the coments about Umaga are more than fair...or at the very least, as fair as some of the stuff that's been said about Joe.
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Post by thefamoustommyz on May 19, 2006 18:14:04 GMT -5
Actually, I was speaking in general terms of what I had read on this and a couple others sites pertaining to Jamal, not specifically pointing out that Tommy had once said he thought Jamal was great. That's good, too...because I don't think anyone could find any evidence of me ever praising Rosey OR Jamal. I don't see anything remotely entertaining about either of them. And I never, NEVER said Jamal wasn't tough. I questioned the logic that he was tougher than Joe just because Joe hurt his knee. I was giving Swarm the benefit of the doubt that he wasn't just trolling, and have received nothing that's convinced me that because Joe hurt his leg that Umaga's tougher than him. And wanting to someday work in a six-sided ring has nothing to do with my likes or dislikes in TNA or WWE. I like Joe, when he's not being used for squash matches. They were impressive the first few times, and they've gotten old. I laughed when I first saw Umaga, and nearly cried when I realized we were supposed to be taking him seriously. Who cares if Joe's overweight (an anti-Joe point used earlier in this thread)? Umaga's not exactly cut...unless you mean cut out of playdough. |
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Post by swarm on May 19, 2006 18:40:02 GMT -5
Actually, I was speaking in general terms of what I had read on this and a couple others sites pertaining to Jamal, not specifically pointing out that Tommy had once said he thought Jamal was great. I laughed when I first saw Umaga, and nearly cried when I realized we were supposed to be taking him seriously. don't you think you're being a little exaggerative here Tommy? You "...nearly cried..." when you realized we were supposed to take Umaga seriously? 1) of course we are supposed to take him seriously...that's the whole point of creating new stars... I'd love to see you point out one guy who was ever designed to help the company lose money... 2) this coming from a fan who thinks it's ok to take Sting seriously at this sorry a** stage of his career. I understand you don't like Umaga, or at the very least have decided to dog him since I pointed out how much more clearly tougher than Joe he is, but saying you "...nearly cried..." when you "realized" he was a character that was to be taken seriously by the fans, and thus maybe contribute to the revenue of the company, is a bit of a stretch... especially since your kind of in the business, you would think you would have "realized" this a lot sooner... |
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Post by PureHatred on May 19, 2006 18:42:56 GMT -5
Chis Masters sucks because he's lousy in the ring, he doesn't sell, he talks like has a mouth full of marbles, he was pushed to the absolute moon with the whole Masters Challenge thing and was getitng Conway-esque reactions from the crowd which pretty much prove he doesn't have the ablity to connect on any level (he was on a PPV with HBK and got dead air..c'mon..), and he's show little to no improvement even with all the TV time he's gotten.
Granted..he did take few weeks off to get those hair plugs...but still..he's got an easy straighforward gimmick that's been done literally dozens of times in the WWE alone and he's failed.
Other than his physique, he has nothing going for him.
He sucks.
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Post by BDS on May 19, 2006 18:55:48 GMT -5
But isn't his finisher the MASTERLOCK? He's got to get coolness points for that ... What? What do you mean it's a full nelson? Nobody uses a full nelson as a finisher in 2006, do they?
Yeah, he sucks.
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Post by thefamoustommyz on May 19, 2006 19:28:53 GMT -5
Dude...Umaga's just Kamala '06...they just filed off "Uganda" and replaced it with "Samoa"...Hell, the NAME is almost "Uganda". I'm supposed to take THAT seriously?
It is an exaggeration...I didn't "nearly cry"...I fast-forwarded.
Kamala was scary and impressive...WHEN I WAS SIX.
Umaga's...just a bad cartoon character.
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Post by gwffantrav on May 19, 2006 19:30:06 GMT -5
Dude...Umaga's just Kamala '06...they just filed off "Uganda" and replaced it with "Samoa"...Hell, the NAME is almost "Uganda". I'm supposed to take THAT seriously? It is an exaggeration...I didn't "nearly cry"...I fast-forwarded. Kamala was scary and impressive...WHEN I WAS SIX. Umaga's...just a bad cartoon character. Ditto.... |
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Post by thefamoustommyz on May 19, 2006 19:31:05 GMT -5
Granted..he did take few weeks off to get those hair plugs...but still..he's got an easy straighforward gimmick that's been done literally dozens of times in the WWE alone and he's failed. Other than his physique, he has nothing going for him. He sucks. And...thanks to the "Wellness Policy", his new gimmick seems to be "The Incredible Shrinking Man". Good thing they got him out of that feud with Carlito, because his size was the ONLY thing he had going for him there. |
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Post by PureHatred on May 19, 2006 21:00:26 GMT -5
Granted..he did take few weeks off to get those hair plugs...but still..he's got an easy straighforward gimmick that's been done literally dozens of times in the WWE alone and he's failed. Other than his physique, he has nothing going for him. He sucks. And...thanks to the "Wellness Policy", his new gimmick seems to be "The Incredible Shrinking Man". Good thing they got him out of that feud with Carlito, because his size was the ONLY thing he had going for him there. Lotta guys on the roster looking smaller lately. Conway, Angle, Benoit, Edge (who was HUGE when he came back from injury)...the policy if enforced correctly could really change the business. Without that "hoss" excuse to fall back on, the WWE would be forced to push guys who are good workers or who can cut a promo. Hey, maybe even give the cruisers some more TV time and in-ring freedom. Maybe. |
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Post by floydthebarber on May 19, 2006 21:01:40 GMT -5
I've noticed this too...same thing with Snitsky, who looks like he has been literally deflated. Masters is still in good shape, but his whole gimmick was that he had this 'amazing' physique...and now...not so much...
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Post by PureHatred on May 19, 2006 21:04:26 GMT -5
Play off the baldness thing:
"The MasterPlugs" Chris Masters
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Post by offspring515 on May 20, 2006 0:47:52 GMT -5
So, getting injured means you're not tough?
Or, Joe getting an injury right now, and Umaga being healthy right now means Umaga is tougher?
Or, real life "toughness" means more than wrestling talent in a worked sport where men fake fight?
This is all confusing to my small brain. I will however agree that Chris Masters has been laughably bad at times, and decent at others.
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Post by swarm on May 20, 2006 1:49:58 GMT -5
So, getting injured means you're not tough? Or, Joe getting an injury right now, and Umaga being healthy right now means Umaga is tougher? Or, real life "toughness" means more than wrestling talent in a worked sport where men fake fight? This is all confusing to my small brain. I will however agree that Chris Masters has been laughably bad at times, and decent at others. See here's the thing...do I really think Umaga is tougher than Joe? Yeah I do, and I have no problem defending it...do I base it mostly on the fact that I'm a go to the grave WWF/WWE fan and supporter along with the fact that I find TNA to be the pussiest wrestling fed I have ever watched?...Yeah, I do. do really I care? No. do I find it hilarious and extremely self-satisfying that I started a thread named "uh-oh" not even days ago, called out Joe's bad knee and big titties, thus raising the ire of so many TNA fan boys, including their leader, that is has become the largest and most viewed TNA thread in...I don't know, months? Yeah, I do. edit: oh my bad, my "ECW is the end of TNA" thread is actually way bigger and more popular than even this one...oops. |
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Post by thefamoustommyz on May 20, 2006 2:52:58 GMT -5
Are you implying that you're *bragging* about *trolling*?
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