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Post by gatekeeper on May 6, 2006 12:00:29 GMT -5
Ok, fair enough, but this goes to show you that Ric Flair who's about 10 yrs. older than Borden, can still work the WWE schedule. This shows you that Flair's love of wrestling is far greater than Sting's. Yeah, either that or Flair HAS top work to pay off the incredible amount of money he owes in child support, to his ex-wives in alimony, and to the IRS for all his back taxes. Plus his attorney fees for that road rage incident which may or may not have violated his probabtion, depending on who you believe. If you've read any of the stories regarding his personal life, Flair is in deep trouble outside of the ring and his WWE paycheck is the only thing keeping him afloat; much like Mike Tyson, Ric's personal excesse have cost him any saving he should've had from his lucrative pro career. So I don't think it's really fair to question Sting's desire in comparison to Ric. There's a pretty good chance Flair would've retired or become a semiregular like Foley if only he could afford to. Good points. I'm sure that does play a factor in it. But, even before all of these "off the field" incidents, Flair was still pulling the WWE travel schedule at an older age than Sting is now. |
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Post by thefamoustommyz on May 6, 2006 13:45:25 GMT -5
Tommy - It's not so much that Sting can give you a rub, because he's not really been in TNA long enough to do that. It's not enough that you are a name to get a rub. You have to have history in the promotion for it to be truly effective. Why do you think Bret Hart failed to get over in WCW? While it's cool to have credibility, it can only help book a match. Time in your organization where you earned your credibility gives you the ability to help establish someone in that company. So, Sting vs. Samoa Joe could be a match with a good buy rate, but at best it could be a showcase for Samoa Joe to show off in front of new fans. The difference here is that the WCW fans never seemed to quite accept Bret, and that hasn't been the case with TNA fans and Sting. I don't know if that was some kind of residual hatred coming off of Bret's extended anti-American tour or what, but the arms never quite opened in WCW for Bret. |
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Post by pikemojo on May 6, 2006 14:36:58 GMT -5
Not to mention the bookers in WCW never quite seemed to know what they were doing with Hart. He switched from story line to story line without any of it making much sense. You never knew whether to be cheering for him or hating him.
As for Sting's love for the business, he is still wrestling when he doesn't have to at all. That proves to me that he still loves it. Whether he loves it as much as Flair or whether Flair is just doing it for money doesn't matter much for me. I still like seeing both guys in the ring and I feel that both are still putting on some great matches. And it still definitely means something to beat either one of them. Just like it meant something for Hogan to beat an over the hill barely walking Andre the Giant.
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Post by thefamoustommyz on May 6, 2006 18:33:46 GMT -5
I would go so far as to say Sting sucks at this point. In fact, I would have to say he sucked when they brought Sting in before for the tag match with Luger in which the two has-beens wrestled Styles and, I believe, Jarrett. That was especially successful because they spent that PPV and the one before it talking about how Styles wasn't in the class of those two. Actually, it was Jarrett teaming with Luger, and the two of them were talking about how Styles wasn't in their league. Sting was AJ's partner, and cut a promo pre-match saying that Styles was the real deal. |
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Post by Joe on May 6, 2006 20:44:02 GMT -5
I would go so far as to say Sting sucks at this point. In fact, I would have to say he sucked when they brought Sting in before for the tag match with Luger in which the two has-beens wrestled Styles and, I believe, Jarrett. That was especially successful because they spent that PPV and the one before it talking about how Styles wasn't in the class of those two. Actually, it was Jarrett teaming with Luger, and the two of them were talking about how Styles wasn't in their league. Sting was AJ's partner, and cut a promo pre-match saying that Styles was the real deal. That's right. I was actually thinking it was prior to AJ falling out with Jarrett. "They" I was referring to was West and Tenay, who went overboard selling the "AJ is great, but how can he possibly compete at the level of these two legends?" thing. |
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Post by thefamoustommyz on May 7, 2006 1:46:52 GMT -5
Ah, misunderstood...thought you were saying Styles' opponents were trashing him...which, they were, but yeah, I get what you're saying now.
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Post by Joe on May 7, 2006 16:52:30 GMT -5
It's cool.
I remember watching it and thinking, "AJ Styles has held every title on the show and is the main reason I get the weekly PPVs, so why in the hell are Don West and Mike Tenay trying to make him sound so weak?"
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Post by Splattercat on May 10, 2006 16:56:42 GMT -5
Personally, I like when Sting's on TNA...He's still strong on the mic, he's entertaining to listen to, and like it or not he still is in good shape, and can still put on a good match...Is he past his prime..? Sure...But I do personally believe he adds to the show...Remind me, since I keep not watching Raw, what's Flair up to these days..? Still good on the mic..? Still in good shape..? Still putting on a good match..? Still adding to the show..?
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Post by canadianpittbull on May 10, 2006 18:09:36 GMT -5
I think I remember him getting his butt handed to him by Umanga.
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Post by Joe on May 10, 2006 18:10:22 GMT -5
Personally, I like when Sting's on TNA...He's still strong on the mic, he's entertaining to listen to, and like it or not he still is in good shape, and can still put on a good match...Is he past his prime..? Sure...But I do personally believe he adds to the show...Remind me, since I keep not watching Raw, what's Flair up to these days..? Still good on the mic..? Still in good shape..? Still putting on a good match..? Still adding to the show..? One thing Flair is not is the centerpiece of a company that only has one hour of programming each week and involved in a feud with a never-been masquerading as a has-been. Also, when Flair returned to action, he wasn't followed by the Steiners and Buff Bagwell. |
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Post by swarm on May 10, 2006 22:33:24 GMT -5
Personally, I like when Sting's on TNA...He's still strong on the mic, he's entertaining to listen to, and like it or not he still is in good shape, and can still put on a good match...Is he past his prime..? Sure...But I do personally believe he adds to the show...Remind me, since I keep not watching Raw, what's Flair up to these days..? Still good on the mic..? Still in good shape..? Still putting on a good match..? Still adding to the show..? One thing Flair is not is the centerpiece of a company that only has one hour of programming each week and involved in a feud with a never-been masquerading as a has-been. Also, when Flair returned to action, he wasn't followed by the Steiners and Buff Bagwell. not to mention Flair didn't wuss out for years and disappear like Stink... ...instead he was part of the greatest super group since the nWo, helping grow the careers of HHH, Batista, and Orton. Flair > Stink |
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Post by thefamoustommyz on May 11, 2006 1:50:42 GMT -5
Well, at least Sting didn't milk his company for all it was worth, get pushed to the moon over everyone and their dog, and then whine like a little b*tch about how tough the schedule was, threaten to kill himself to get out of his contract, fail miserably at trying to get into the NFL, then whine like a little b*tch when the contract he signed came back to bite him in the a** when he realized that he'd crapped his lifestyle away perhaps a bit too soon...after all, supporting aging Barbie Dolls takes money.
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Post by Splattercat on May 11, 2006 1:56:25 GMT -5
Flair was okay in Evolution...I didn't mind so much when he tagged with Batista, that was cool...But I wasn't so much a big fan of him kissing Triple H's *** week in and week out...not really in the Nature Boy style, but moreover, it just got old really really fast...
Oh yeah, and the nut shots Flair laid in every Monday night against whoever Triple H happened to be keeping down that week was equally annoying...Seeing it done to Steiner and Goldberg was bad enough, but seeing it done to Batista...Well, the point is, it just made the other guy look helpless at the hands of Flair...None of the above, especially Batista should look helpless at the hands of Ric Flair...
And other than that everything was great... ;D
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Post by swarm on May 11, 2006 8:41:45 GMT -5
Well, at least Sting didn't milk his company for all it was worth, get pushed to the moon over everyone and their dog, and then whine like a little b*tch about how tough the schedule was, threaten to kill himself to get out of his contract, fail miserably at trying to get into the NFL, then whine like a little b*tch when the contract he signed came back to bite him in the a** when he realized that he'd crapped his lifestyle away perhaps a bit too soon...after all, supporting aging Barbie Dolls takes money. Right, because we are totally talking about Brock Lesner here and not Ric Flair...please don't reach... also, since when is it cool for mods to avoid the swear filter? I don't get it. |
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Post by Joe on May 11, 2006 9:08:50 GMT -5
When you make Tommy mad, that's when the claws come out. He can be a very temperamental little fella!
Help me out, though. Exactly what does Brock Lesnar have to do with this discussion anyway?
Anyway, I have a question for Splattercat. How does somebody falling down when a 240-pound man gives him a shot in the ballbag make him look weak? Last I checked, going after someone's eyes or testicles is usually a pretty surefire way to take him down, or at least slow him down.
This made about as much sense as the guy on another site who said the Foley/Edge double-team on Tommy Dreamer made ECW look weak. I was really trying to find the logic in an entire federation looking weak because a guy who used to wrestle there got took down from behind by a guy with a baseball bat wrapped in barbed-wire.
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Post by PureHatred on May 11, 2006 10:08:42 GMT -5
Because everyone knows that guys as big as Batista are on the juice, so therefore their balls are the size of raisenettes.So a low blow would be harmless. ~DUH!
Nah...j/k...I got nothing.
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Post by Splattercat on May 11, 2006 10:48:07 GMT -5
Because during evolution, Flair was a weasily kiss-as* Manager that wrestled now and then...When he did his famous knee to the groin during his matches it was fine, but during the famous "Evolution beatdowns" that took place EVERY monday night just made the guy in the ring look bad...
And it's hard for me to explain, but I don't mean that from a story point of view because they were supposed to make them look bad...But when he did it to Goldberg for example, it just came across as Goldberg fighting it because he didn't want Flair to make him look bad, and then he realized that he was supposed to take it so he let him...Then Flair did it 3 times...Which okay, I laughed out loud a bit when I typed that cause it's rather funny...
Point is, it made the "wrestler" look bad as opposed to making the "superstar" look bad (Thank you Joey Styles)...Does that make sense at all..?
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Post by PureHatred on May 11, 2006 11:00:49 GMT -5
No. No it doesn't. Or at least, it makes it seem as if you're watching every episode of Raw paying attention to two things: the storylines AND the rumors of what's happening backstage. Try not to think so hard.
Evolution was a heel stable that would do whatever it took to get a win. So those weekly beatdowns got over the heel group so that it meant more down the line when they did lose and when they eventually broke up. Flair was playing the sycophant cheater weasel heel and he did it perfectly.
So I'm not sure why it mattered whether or not Bill *wanted* to take a nut shot. That sounds like his personal problem. Better performers than him have allowed a weaker looking heel to get the better of them.
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Post by Joe on May 11, 2006 11:40:03 GMT -5
I always thought the good guy looked strong anytime he battled valiantly until finally succumbing to the numbers game in play during a four-on-one beat down.
Sorry if I sounded like Mike Tenay just now, but it got my point across.
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Post by Splattercat on May 11, 2006 13:04:12 GMT -5
Well, I was just using Bill as an example...But there were other times that it was just innapropriate...Like, I think it was RVD, they beat him to unconsciousness and THEN Flair did it....Like, you're unconscious...How do you sell a lowblow when your unconcious..? Do you even sell it..?
From a Story point of view, Evolution was VERY predictable...Every week the ending was the same...Evolution beatdown...True, it got them over as a heel stable, but to me it got really tedious, with every main event ending with the same routine (and yes, that's what it was, the same beatdown every night)...And with Flair doing nothing during the whole beatdown and then, because he's the dirtiest player in the game, he just HAD to get his low blow/s in every night....Often enough, to me at least, they seemed misplaced or unneccessary...Just Flair doing his same 20 year routine...
Anyway, Flair was the weakest member of Evolution, which I guess is a testament to the other guys...I just didn't like his role in Evolution that's all...He played the weasily kiss-a*s manager very well, it's true...I guess I just expected more from the leader of the Four Horsemen...
Dunno...maybe it's a personal thing...
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