Lockdown is a pretty stupid concept

[hawk]

Everything is opinions. It's just presenting that opinion in such a way that it doesn't piss off other people.

As for WWE and Steiner...That just shows how petty and idiotic Vince McMahon is. You do not screw over a potential draw just because you feel like it. He did it to the Invasion botching what should have been the biggest angle in wrestling history, and has done it constantly since. That's just not good business at all.

As for lockdown...should be a fun show. I won't be getting it, but it should be a fun show.

[Joe]

tafkaga said:

I'm not really a big TNA fan, but I think Purehatred's post shows just as much, if not more, bias than Canadianpitbulls. This whole "if you're enjoying that product you must be a mark" thing that some people have going on is incredibly lame. I heard the exact same arguments every day in high school because I was one of the few guys still watching WWF when WCW was ruling the ratings. Ever thought that it's possible that someone can just enjoy a product for what it is? When I watched TNA I found it enjoyable just for what it was, then I came on this board and read a bunch of posts from a bunch of people telling me why I should NOT be enjoying it. Screw you. I'll like what I like, and so will Canadianpitbull and everyone else who enjoys TNA. It doesn't have to be 100% original or innovative. People like it for what it is, and there's nothing wrong with them being a fan and coming to the forum and expressing some enthusiasm about the product.

Actually, I was thinking the same thing as PH in regards to CanadianPitbull.

Say what you want about being overly-negative or someone else being enthusiastic, but when you read a line like, "It will be total bedlam that night in Orlando!" and "find out as Sting appears tonight on iMPACT!" it does sound like a promoter shilling for company.

That's where the criticism of the people who are big time TNA fans on this board comes from. They don't come off like fans, they sound like employees hoping to get a pay raise by selling the product to new fans.

I know this is going to bring Tommy B back out and firing on me, but I just felt I couldn't stand by and let Tafkaga let loose with a "personal attack" on a fellow board member, especially when his post contained the phrase "Screw you."

[tafkaga]

Congratulations, you're the second most predictable member of this board.

/golfclap

[thefamoustommyz]

Joe, you just seem like you want me to make it personal with you.

SO...

Tafkaga, watch with the "screw you's"...although that one was pretty clearly not directed at any one person, and was directed at everyone who tries to tell people on this board what they should and should not like...and there is a TON of that.

Who cares if someone's a mark? Anyone? God, sometimes I wish I could be a mark again. I was thumbing through some old magazines last night, remembering when I was still a dyed in the wool mark...that was GREAT...I was such a mark that when I saw Bischoff mouthing Scott Hall's lines on Nitro, and then joined the nWo a few months later, that it was solid proof that he had been behind it all along and no one had caught it.

If someone shilling for TNA or WWE bothers you *that* much, maybe they're not the only ones that need to reevaluate things.

[hawk]

Oh for gods sake. This is just silly.

First off, claiming anyone opinion is not valid because of what they believe is just downright ignorant. I've talked to Pitbull, and we haven't seen eye to eye in the LOW folder on atleast one occasion, but to say his opinion is lesser because of his phrase? Come the crap on here.

You say: "That's where the criticism of the people who are big time TNA fans on this board comes from. They don't come off like fans, they sound like employees hoping to get a pay raise by selling the product to new fans. "

Well, I can safely say that posts like that is where people's point of views come from in regards to people being negative for the sake of being negative. Like I said earlier, it's a two way street. I think I'm a very fair fan of TNA. I praise them for what they do right, and I get on them for what they do wrong. I don't hold it against anyone to be either way, but it's when people present their opinions as FACTS and claims to other people being wrong that I take exception with.

If you're negative about the product but phrase you're points well, in a civil manner? Fine. Saying something that basicly translates into "I'm right, you're wrong!" is not okay on either side of this situation. From what I've seen, it's the Pro-TNA people that are the ones that usually go "Well, I understand what you mean, but I really like TNA." while it's the negative ones that don't.

We all need to step back and check ourselves, because I'm sick of this constant bickering between people with different views that involve the same five or six people.

[swarm]

tafkaga said:

Congratulations, you're the second most predictable member of this board.

/golfclap

EDIT BY CHRIS -- WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN TOLD ABOUT BYPASSING THE FILTER?!

[hawk]

Exactly what I was talking about right above me.

[tafkaga]

Wow, I'm glad we're on the same page. That's exactly the analogy that I've used many times to describe your posts.

[swarm]

tafkaga said:

Wow, I'm glad we're on the same page. That's exactly the analogy that I've used many times to describe your posts.

yes...I know how you feel. you never shut up.

[hawk]

Okay, thats it. I've had it. I've had it with all this bickering, all this fights. If I was a mod, I'd be really, really pissed right now.

No more of this crap. If you can't stay on topic, get out of the thread. Now. I refuse to see another topic hijacked over this bullcrap.

If you two can't settle this, then ignore each other. DO SOMETHING, because if I was a mod, I swear to god I'd seriously be considering getting rid of you both at this point, and anyone else who can't be civil.

Knock it off.

[swarm]

hawk said:

Okay, thats it. I've had it. I've had it with all this bickering, all this fights. If I was a mod, I'd be really, really ticked right now.

No more of this crap. If you can't stay on topic, get out of the thread. Now. I refuse to see another topic hijacked over this bullcrap.

If you two can't settle this, then ignore each other. DO SOMETHING, because if I was a mod, I swear to god I'd seriously be considering getting rid of you both at this point, and anyone else who can't be civil.

Knock it off.

hey you read my pm. you know where I stand.

[hawk]

And it's a silly stance. I'm taking this topic back on topic like it should be.

Christopher Daniels v.s. Jushin Lyger should be a fun match, but it'll be interesting if they give the match enough time to develop, or make them go balls out in less then ten minutes. The odd thing, is I can't see NJPW wanting Lyger's two TNA matches to both be losses, regardless of title stature or not. He's friggin LYGER.

[swarm]

hawk said:

And it's a silly stance. I'm taking this topic back on topic like it should be.

Christopher Daniels v.s. Jushin Lyger should be a fun match, but it'll be interesting if they give the match enough time to develop, or make them go balls out in less then ten minutes. The odd thing, is I can't see NJPW wanting Lyger's two TNA matches to both be losses, regardless of title stature or not. He's friggin LYGER.

I agree. I have always been a fan of Liger (at least that's how he spelled his name when I was watching him...) but I have not seen him wrestle in a long time.

does he still have it? How old is he now? Is it even the same guy under the mask?

there, that's 3 new topics. see.

[gwffantrav]

To just stay on the topic, Liger is, from what I can recall, 42 or 43. But, while he doesn't have it like he did in the heyday on the 90s, still a solid performer. It was always a joy to see him wrestle in WCW in the early 90s.

Actually with his style and the tumor, I'm shocked he's still even wrestling!!!! I didn't get to see the Samaoa Joe match, but it didn't seem like a good matchup on paper. I'd be more jacked to see Daniels vs Liger.

[hawk]

For his age, Lyger's the best of his generation by a landslide. I have no idea how he's managed to keep it all together while everyone else (Except Benoit to a degree) have lost several steps.

Lyger's a genius, in that he's consistantly reinvented himself within his gimmick. At first, he was a pure flier. Then when he botched a SSP, he turned into more of a power wrestler. Then after his tumor scare, he changed his style a bit more, and eventually went "Black Lyger" where he was a ruthless bastard.

Now, in Japan, he's a rudo prick back in his Black Lyger attire after having lost it for a few years, leading the heel army CTU. Of course, in the states he'll always try to be the same Lyger as he was in 1992.

Another thing about Lyger, is you can't tell with his outfit, but Lyger is STAAACKED. He's in amazing condition, and probably has heavyweight power. It has to be why he's stayed so good all these years.

[Joe]

I like both guys, and it should be a hell of a match. I will be getting this PPV because of it.

[PureHatred]

On topic: Liger v Daniels should be an awesome match.

If they put these two men in cage to satifsfy the Lockdown theme I think that would actually make me want to watch it less, but one of TNA's strong points is that they are willing to present truly athletic matches and can bring in stars like Liger. So hopefully someone loks past the 6 SIDES OF STEEL hype and realiuzes these two don't need it.

As to what I said before: I've never once said that if you were a fan of TNA then you had to be a mark. All I said that was certain fans on this board come off as though they've lost all objectivity and I can't take their opinion on TNA seriously.

When I read posts form guys like tafkaga, Joe, Hawk, Swarm, or offspring or many others, I may or may not agree with them and lord knows they might not agree with each other, but at least I know that whatever they are posting is their honest opinion on that particular topic.

But as Joe said (and thanks for getting what my point was) if every single post is just blindly optimistic, never adresses the topic of the thread, and is so overly pro TNA that it sounds like your writing the header for the PPV, then I have no reason to take what you're saying seriously. We are no longer having a discussion because I can't believe any 'opinions' you might post on this board.

Being a fan ultimately means you are a consumer of the poduct and if I don't believe that you are an objective consumer and you are one of those people that buy products (whether it be wrestling or anytihng else) because of the name on the label, then I just tune you out.

You can be a fan of something and still retain your objectivity. if its crappy, its crappy and you change the channel. if its great, then you can say so, and people would believe you because you were willing to admit when it was crappy.

And if you're trying to spread the gospel about that which you are a fan of, then you're actually doing it wrong, because I would never at this point buy a TNA PPV or watch Impact based on what pitbull has said because he's such an obvious shill.

That's all I was trying to say. I like TNA. And there a e plenty of people who are pro-NA who's opinion I take to heart, both on these boards and others. Because they are being at least reasonable.

But I don't listen to the others. They sound ridiculous to me.

EDIT: To be clear, that doesn't mean I have a personal issue with pitbull or whatever, that just means I don't take his opinion seriously on the topic. I have friend of mine who's one of those ridiculous radiers fans who wears body armor to the game: he's pretty sure Aaron Brroks will be the league MVP. i just don't talk to him about football.

[offspring515]

I think it's cute that so many of us think we aren't marks....just because we know it's predetermined doesn't mean they aren't still working us.

[canadianpittbull]

Well for one I am not apart of the company, too bad I wasn't cause I have some great ideas to help push them along.

Ultimately you don't have to like my views or anyones for that matter, but coming on here and directly bashing someone or hinting at it is not what these boards are for. Who cares if someone is a mark for one company or the other??? I watch wrestling regardless because I am a WRESTLING FAN FIRST AND FOREMOST!!! If WWE's product is crap right now so be it, doesn't mean it all is. Same with TNA, you might not like everything they are doing but that doesn't mean you cannot enjoy the moments that are there.

Overall, I am tired of the constant childish low blows some here like to pull. Get over yourselves and knock it off! Be mindful of the things you say and be PRODUCTIVE not DESTRUCTIVE!

Because at the end of it all and the dust clears we are all still fellow Filsinger fans and wrestling fans. Again, letting "opinions" over who is a mark for what company and what company is better as well as personal attacks, among other verbal diarrhea does nothing for the everyone who contributes. It makes the entire community look bad.

In closing, be mindful of what you say and respect others feelings. If you cannot post in an intelligent matter and prove your position without going into personal attacks then just refrain from posting. If ya don't have something nice to say then don't say anything.

[tafkaga]

I think that everyone was probably a mark at some point in their life. I am admittedly a mark for Randy Savage. Prior to the late 90's, I loved just about ANYTHING he did. You'll never convince me that anyone was better than Randy Savage or that any wrestler could put on a better show than Randy Savage could.

There's really nothing wrong with being a mark. Not saying that anyone here is, but let's not set ourselves up too high on a pedestal as if we're above being marks. I say that if someone is loving TNA that's great. I WISH that I could love TNA that much, but I don't. If someone loves WWE, that's great too. We're all just wrestling fans and we should be happy about being able to mark out now and then. I'd a lot rather be a mark than be so jaded toward the business that I'm no longer capable of mark-out moments.