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Post by gatekeeper on Feb 22, 2006 1:51:07 GMT -5
Ok so I just don't get this fed. Christian talks all this smack about how the WWE (he said "everyone who said I didn't have it but who else could it be?) was holding him back. Doesn't wrestle. The Jackie Gayda videotape thing and her still unresolved or really not-a-all-developed situation with Jarrett. They need to go somewhere with this. And Jarrett seemingly not caring about losing the belt. (  ) A bunch of guys nobody cares about like Jay Lethal and Shannon Moore etc.keep having matches. More boring segments with Fat Samoa Joe. A horrible "Background segment" about Ron Killings growing up in a tough neighborhood. (I guess I'm supposed to like him and his stupid break-dancing now) And a ridiculously predictable main event. With the Dudleys and Team Canada again in a 6-man tag match. It seems every week a 6 man match is the main event. Oh yeah, the viewing party they advertise each segment doesn't actually happen. I just don't get it. Each week I hope to see something better in this fed but, each week I'm more and more disappointed. |
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Post by Big Bri on Feb 22, 2006 16:01:59 GMT -5
I actually enjoyed the show, but the "no viewing party" was a downer.
Christian comes off as a little weaker than he was in WWE. That promo needed to show more of his cocky side, but instead we got a sob story. I did like how the show ended with Monty barging into Christian's dressing room though.
You're right, JJ should've at least said something to the fact that he'd be champ again soon (Kinda like HHH said to Cena backstage a few months back: lok at them now)
I liked the Killings segment. Funny hair.
I'm tired of having an "Ultimate X" match every 3 or four months. This should only be done annually, like HIAC & the Elimination Chamber.
It wasn't great by any means, but it wasn't horrible either.
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Post by swarm on Feb 22, 2006 16:18:03 GMT -5
Christian needs to shut up...since he showed up in TNA, all it has proved is that he needed the WWE to be a star...
he is probably the dumbest guy in wrestling right now...
crying about how he was never given a chance...give me a break..
he has more tag titles than anyone in the WWE thanks to Edge carrying him all those years...
he is no World Champion...he sucks in the ring...he has charisma yes, but his matches suck.
what a loser.
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Post by gatekeeper on Feb 22, 2006 17:47:00 GMT -5
Yeah, could anyone really buy Christian as WWE Champion? No way.
He's great on the mic when not complaining but his matches definitely leave a lot to be desired. Edge definitely carried him.
And he says he was dissed by the WWE.....let's see....like 9 time tag champ...Inter-Continental Champ.....European Champ...probably Hardcore Champ (who didn't hold this belt for at least 5 seconds..literallly?)
Yeah sounds like he really had it rough. There were a lot of guys way better than him never to hold the WWE title.......
Mr. Perfect, Rick Rude, Jake Roberts, Jimmy Snuka, Nikolai Volkoff, Hillbilly Jim, Roddy Piper, King Kong Bundy, Magnificent Muraco, Ricky Steamboat, Brutus Beefcake, HonkyTonk Man, Greg Valentine, Tito Santana, Ted DiBiase, just to name a few.
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Post by floydthebarber on Feb 22, 2006 19:38:26 GMT -5
I haven't seen it, but I do agree that in his current state, or at the height of his WWE character, he would be a 'tough' sell as WWE Champ. I thought the same of Edge, but I was wrong. Edge did a nice job. I still think Christian will do a good job, and I don't agree that he isn't talented in the ring. He's wrestling in a new environment, in a 6 sided ring against wrestlers he has never faced and has rarely seen in person. I think the whole 'hard done by the WWE' stuff is more TNA than him, but he's playing along so he must have SOME say in it.
I still think Christian's best days are ahead of him, and hopefully this run as NWA Champ will be the thing he needs to take that next step. I think he needs someone like Tyson Tomko as his right hand man again...but in a face role.
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Post by floydthebarber on Feb 22, 2006 19:43:54 GMT -5
I think its also safe to say that Christian is better as a heel than a face...but because of the jump to TNA, there is no way they could bring him in as a top heel (esp with JJJ holding down that title).
I'm sure within 6-8 months we'll start to see a more heelish Christian, especially if they aquire some more talent to fill out the 'main event' roster.
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Post by PureHatred on Feb 23, 2006 14:12:23 GMT -5
Yeah, could anyone really buy Christian as WWE Champion? No way. He's great on the mic when not complaining but his matches definitely leave a lot to be desired. Edge definitely carried him. And he says he was dissed by the WWE.....let's see....like 9 time tag champ...Inter-Continental Champ.....European Champ...probably Hardcore Champ (who didn't hold this belt for at least 5 seconds..literallly?) Yeah sounds like he really had it rough. There were a lot of guys way better than him never to hold the WWE title....... Mr. Perfect, Rick Rude, Jake Roberts, Jimmy Snuka, Nikolai Volkoff, Hillbilly Jim, Roddy Piper, King Kong Bundy, Magnificent Muraco, Ricky Steamboat, Brutus Beefcake, HonkyTonk Man, Greg Valentine, Tito Santana, Ted DiBiase, just to name a few. I agree with the gist of your post, but Volkoff and Hillbilly Jim??? Seriously???!!?? There's no need for hyperbole. |
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Post by gatekeeper on Feb 23, 2006 17:10:57 GMT -5
Yeah, could anyone really buy Christian as WWE Champion? No way. He's great on the mic when not complaining but his matches definitely leave a lot to be desired. Edge definitely carried him. And he says he was dissed by the WWE.....let's see....like 9 time tag champ...Inter-Continental Champ.....European Champ...probably Hardcore Champ (who didn't hold this belt for at least 5 seconds..literallly?) Yeah sounds like he really had it rough. There were a lot of guys way better than him never to hold the WWE title....... Mr. Perfect, Rick Rude, Jake Roberts, Jimmy Snuka, Nikolai Volkoff, Hillbilly Jim, Roddy Piper, King Kong Bundy, Magnificent Muraco, Ricky Steamboat, Brutus Beefcake, HonkyTonk Man, Greg Valentine, Tito Santana, Ted DiBiase, just to name a few. I agree with the gist of your post, but Volkoff and Hillbilly Jim??? Seriously???!!?? There's no need for hyperbole. Well, I'll bet you there are way more people know who Hillbilly and Nikolai are than people who know who Christian Cage is. I know they may have not been the best guys but they were names. |
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Post by JED-SE on Feb 23, 2006 18:12:49 GMT -5
Christian needs to shut up...since he showed up in TNA, all it has proved is that he needed the WWE to be a star... he is probably the dumbest guy in wrestling right now... crying about how he was never given a chance...give me a break.. he has more tag titles than anyone in the WWE thanks to Edge carrying him all those years... he is no World Champion...he sucks in the ring...he has charisma yes, but his matches suck. what a loser. Dumbest guy in wrestling?! Dumber than Rob Conway? Okay, I'm sorry that was wrong... You're right, in the sense that Christian is not a world Champion to say like Edge, Cena, Angle or even Benoit. But to say he "sucks" is a little too harsh. Maybe his promo was slightly unecessary. I think that he was playing to the TNA fans (or better yet the anti-wwe fans). He should get past the fact that WWE is in the rear view mirror and that he's now on top of TNA. For now, it's not saying much. On a side note, I have to agree with you gatekeeper that this weeks impact sucked serious a$$. |
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Post by PureHatred on Feb 24, 2006 10:53:00 GMT -5
I agree with the gist of your post, but Volkoff and Hillbilly Jim??? Seriously???!!?? There's no need for hyperbole. Well, I'll bet you there are way more people know who Hillbilly and Nikolai are than people who know who Christian Cage is. I know they may have not been the best guys but they were names. OK..tht's just stupid. Both Volkoff and Jim were lower midcarders with limitedto no movesets, very little skill on the mic, and cartoonish gimmicks that were well known because they appeared in the WWF during the height of its mid-80s popularity. Saying that they would've been better world champion because "oH YEAH they were names!!!1!!1roxorz~" is basically saying that the WCW was right to put the world title on Arquette because he was more of a "name" than anyone else on the WCW roster at the time. Forget it. You were trying to make a point about Christian(actually you were just parroting what Swarm said, but whatever) and you were throwing out a bunch of names to reinforce that point. Two of the names on that list were just ridiculous. Just pointing that out. |
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Post by PureHatred on Feb 24, 2006 11:03:16 GMT -5
As to the topic, I'm not a big fan of Impact either, but mainly they are trying to sell TNA as the more serious wrestling with the better athletes, yet each week the show is almost exclusively filled with squash matches. And the non-squash matches almost never have a clean finish.
If even the clowns on the WWE writing team can manage to put together two hours where there are actually some matches worth watching, then TNA has no excuse.
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Post by gatekeeper on Feb 24, 2006 11:55:29 GMT -5
Well, I'll bet you there are way more people know who Hillbilly and Nikolai are than people who know who Christian Cage is. I know they may have not been the best guys but they were names. Saying that they would've been better world champion because "oH YEAH they were names!!!1!!1roxorz~" is basically saying that the WCW was right to put the world title on Arquette because he was more of a "name" than anyone else on the WCW roster at the time. No, it's not really even close to the same thing. I was talking about wrestlers. Not David Arquette. And I wasn't parroting what Swarm said. Read the posts. Swarm said basically that Christian is a whiny b!tch who has bad matches, whereas my point was that there are many guys who felt the way Christian did, but they were much bigger stars and had more talent (or crowd drawing capability). And yeah, I was listing guys to reinforce my point. That's what you do when you're trying to make a point. You have to have some reasons for it. I understand you don't agree and that's cool. Just pointing that out. |
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Post by swarm on Feb 25, 2006 11:42:10 GMT -5
Below is an excerpt from a recent Christian Interview...
Christian begins by talking about how it's been surreal hearing himself introduced on shows as the NWA Champion. He mentions that it's been his goal since the day he started wrestling. Guttman says that it must mean more as an old school fan to win the NWA Championship. Cage agrees and talks about the lineage of the title and how it's an honor to hold the title that so many greats did.
_________________________________________
What the hell is this nobody smoking? Why is it so hard for people to understand the TNA belt is not the NWA Title?
It's not. Not at all, I don't care what anybody says...
NWA/WCW died at then hands of Vince and when it did, so did the NWA/WCW Title...
I don't remember Jeff Jarrett beating HHH for the belt...do you?
I don't remember one NWA Title match ever taking place in a joke of a 6-sided ring...
Their tin-can, trash title dates back through Rhino, Jarrett and a Nash (I think he held the belt, i don't know nor do I care) and that's it...
Christian likes to talk big lately, and he's making himself out to be a fool...
the only lineage he is part of are washed-up WWE has-beens who joined a fourth-rate flea-circus not a whole helluva lot of people give a crap about.
Please don't drag the likes of Ric Flair, Ricky Steamboat, and Dusty Rhodes into that...
________________________________________
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Post by floydthebarber on Feb 25, 2006 12:21:18 GMT -5
When Vince bought WCW, he didn't buy NWA...at least, I wasn’t under that impression. Even if it is the NWA Utah Title, if they want to bring back the NWA name to give the Title a little bit of 'weight', so what? Does 55 year old Ric Flair, who’s hanging on the his career as if his life depended on it REALLY lose sleep over the fact that Christian is NWA Champ some, what, 20 years after he was? The fact that the name is still alive is a good thing, not a bad thing. Some people may not like TNA, some people may even blindly hate it with a passion that makes no sense at all...but the fact is Vince doesn't own the NWA patent, so TNA is free to do as they like, just like New Japan's Tiger Mask is currently the NWA Jr. Heavyweight Champion.
Free speech is a great thing, but some posts in this thread just reek of total bias and come off as serving no purpose other than to run down TNA. Who are you trying to convince?
I’m a fan of TNA. I’m rooting for them. Have I watched in the last couple of weeks…no. Have the last few shows I’ve watched impressed me…not really. However, unlike some who can’t see past the giant WWE logo on their face, I’m willing to sit back and watch and hope for the best. If I’m entertained along the way, bonus!
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Post by swarm on Feb 25, 2006 17:08:30 GMT -5
I'm not trying to convince anything to anyone...all I'm saying is that Christian is the TNA Champion...
and HHH is the NWA Champion...
and if I were wee-christian-cage, I wouldn't go around lumping HHH's best friend into a false category for several reasons...
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Post by william on Feb 25, 2006 17:50:44 GMT -5
The problem with "World Titles" be it WWE NWA TNA etc. is that every promotion lies about it's history. I remember WCW saying their title went back to the days of Abe Lincoln, and there wasn't even a world title then! In my opinion, and again it is MY OPINION, agree with me or not, that is your choice, every promotion that claims a world title and actually has it defended outside of their promotion, or home country, can trace their world title back to Gotch and Hackenschmidt, and that includes WWE and TNA. There have been plenty of experts and books to back up this claim. And that title was the National Wrestling Association World Title, so Christian, Cena, Angle and whoever else is NWA World Champion. Now, let the posts tearing me apart begin, and the pm's as well. If you agree cool, if you don't, cool. That once again is your choice. Enjoy
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Post by PureHatred on Feb 25, 2006 19:49:25 GMT -5
The problem with "World Titles" be it WWE NWA TNA etc. is that every promotion lies about it's history. I remember WCW saying their title went back to the days of Abe Lincoln, and there wasn't even a world title then! In my opinion, and again it is MY OPINION, agree with me or not, that is your choice, every promotion that claims a world title and actually has it defended outside of their promotion, or home country, can trace their world title back to Gotch and Hackenschmidt, and that includes WWE and TNA. There have been plenty of experts and books to back up this claim. And that title was the National Wrestling Association World Title, so Christian, Cena, Angle and whoever else is NWA World Champion. Now, let the posts tearing me apart begin, and the pm's as well. If you agree cool, if you don't, cool. That once again is your choice. Enjoy I might argue with you, if I had any clue as to what the he l l you were saying.... |
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Post by LWPD on Feb 25, 2006 20:05:00 GMT -5
Correct. The NWA was never AOL Time Warner's to sell to Vince as the NWA has _ALWAYS_ been a distinct entity from WCW. Neither the Smackdown or Raw Titles have any connection whatsoever to NWA Title lineage due to anything that transpired from the WCW acquisition...although this fact hasn't stopped attempts to work the fans into believing otherwise. The gig is to blur WCW lineage with the NWA...when in actuality they are totally distinct from one another.
Ted Turner purchased the remains of the decimated JCP operation from Jim Crockett who booked the sanctioned 'NWA World Champion'. While JC used the term NWA ubiquitously whenever promoting his product he _NEVER_ owned the NWA name which was distinct from JCP and existed as a sanctioning body of member promoters. Crockett himself was a member of this organization but nothing more than that.
When Ted Turner made the JCP buyout he created World Championship Wrestling...which inherited the NWA's then sanctioning of it's titles...but never ownership of the 'NWA' itself in any way shape or form. To make a long story short the relationship between WCW and NWA sanctioning came to an end for good in 1994 and since that time nothing that has occurred going forward in WCW has had anything to do with the NWA...and nothing that occurred before WCW was created has any link to NWA History.
The NWA has continued to exist long since after it's relationship with WCW ended...although it does so on a much smaller and less influential scale. The Jarretts secured exclusive use to the NWA name upon creating the TNA promotion in an effort to gain credibility. Any of the 'NWA Champions' can factually claim a direct link to all previous NWA Title lineage. So when Christian talks about sharing the same title history as Ric Flair and Lou Thesz it's a direct statement of fact. I'd add not only is he being truthful...but it's an example of him doing his job well by reinforcing the image the company was going for by creating the affiliation in the first place. Bashing him over any of this is simply moronic.
Like Watching Paint Dry (who remembers the success of Vince's national expansion being the catalyst for Jim Crockett coming to hoard the use of the NWA name...the constant disputes over how the NWA Title was booked became a relic of the past as one by one each of it's members simply went under from the talent and venue raids)
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Post by PureHatred on Feb 25, 2006 20:25:56 GMT -5
~SWERVE~ nah....I get what you're saying. the National Wrestling Association was the original world title and the one worn by Gotch and Heckenschmidt. Lou Thesz won the Nationa Wrestling ALLIANCE title in 49 and then won the original NWA belt a year later. When those two belts were merged so to speak is when NWAlliance promoters started claiming the Gotch/Hackenschmidt lineage. (BTW I don't think they were ever serious about the Lincoln stuff...that was just wrestling promoters being wrestling promoters...like Andre the Giant was never technically the 8th Wonder of the World..but anyhow...).
The whole NWA/WCW/TNA thing is all based on technicalities. The NWA was a conglomerate of promoters, the biggest and most "successfuil" of which was Jim Crockett Productions. When Turner bought JCP he didn't actually buy the entire NWA, but he bought the parts that counted.
Over the course of some years, those other NWA promoters started to vehemently disagree with what the WCW was doing with its titles and was mad because Eric Bischoff never bothered to check with their board of directors before a title change (which he was supposed to do, technically). So they decided to refuse to recognize the WCW belt as the true NWA title and eventually tried to do their own thing. Which seems a little ridiculous, since this was at the absolute height of WCW's popularity and they were runnig shows at state fairs in front of dozens (and dozens!) of fans.
Somewhere in here, Shane Douglas s h it cans the new NWA title after winning it in a tourney as a way of getitng over the ECW.
Fast forward a few years and the WWE buys out WCW and only the most ardent of wrestling fans would be able to tell you that the REAL NWA title has nothing to do with WCW, so therefore the WWE doesn't own it. But in wrestling, perception is reality, so who cares? The NWA title floats around for a few years before Jarret and his son open up their own personal playground called TNA, and to lend credibility and financial support for their company, they align themselves with the NWA. And so TECHNICALLLY SPEAKING, the NWA title never belonged to the WWE and it is in fact being worn by Christian.
But how many fans know anything about the NWA board of governors or the fact that WCW and NWA weren't the same thing? And realistically, it doesn't matter how many names he drops, Christian's title is only as prestigious as his company is popular. Period.
So as much as I want TNA to succeed, and as much as I truly believe that competition os good for wrestling, they don't just get a free pass on the quality of their product. I don't think its 'bashing' to point out that Impact, in general, sucks. It sucks. It's not 1985...you're not building a fanbase by showing 45 minutes of squash matches capped off by a main event that almost always ends in a run-in clusterf**k.
To be fair, I think the PPVs have been fairly awesome lately, top to bottom much better than the WWE's. But I'm not buying them; I'm dl'ing them off pf web sites. And the main reason for this is that nothing on the Impact is making me WANT to buy them.
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Post by PureHatred on Feb 25, 2006 20:45:11 GMT -5
NOTE: LWPD posted while I was typing all that up..wasn't trying to be repetitive.
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