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Post by hofclemens on Aug 12, 2007 21:31:01 GMT -5
Black Reign was awful and the bar room brawl was too gimmicky but other then that its been enjoyable so far.
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Post by Highway61Revisited on Aug 12, 2007 21:36:21 GMT -5
The bar room brawl was Wrestlecrap in the making.
I think Sting/Angle would be the freshest thing to do, Havoc. Not to mention those two would give TNA a dream match for the title.
There's Joe <3
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Post by Highway61Revisited on Aug 12, 2007 21:58:43 GMT -5
It was going alright. It wasn't a classic but it was pretty good.
Then we get Russo Finish 101.
Terrible.
Just awful.
That "swerve" was a tad too predictable I'm afraid.
Seriously with every title on the line that couldn't deliver a clean finish? Blah.
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Post by dukedave on Aug 12, 2007 22:06:39 GMT -5
It was going alright. It wasn't a classic but it was pretty good. Then we get Russo Finish 101. Terrible. Just awful. That "swerve" was a tad too predictable I'm afraid. Seriously with every title on the line that couldn't deliver a clean finish? Blah. I was hoping for that finish actually. I thought it was awesome. I popped for that almost as much as you popped for the Frankensteiner. Angle/Abyss, it will be good but doesn't get my blood pumping. I hope Angle and Joe are done for good because Angle could have great matches with Abyss, Sting, Christian, then maybe AJ or Daniels. He is still Gold in the ring. The PPV was above average, I'd say 3 1/2 out of 5. |
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Post by Highway61Revisited on Aug 12, 2007 22:10:07 GMT -5
Overall feelings on Hard Justice:
As someone who watched TNA from week one until November, I think I've got a pretty "feel" for the company. Here are the positives and negatives I saw tonight:
The Positives:
- The ESPN clip package! TNA shows their national exposure and it helps them come off as "big league", I liked that. Whenever you get PR use it. Marketing 101.
- A fun Steiners match. That's how you book nostalgia.
- They still know how to do garbage.
The Negatives:
- Everything seems to be the same. Everyone's always stuck in the same mode. Raven is going to be on the lower-card, Rhino is fighting some odd psychological demon, spot monkies galore on the undercard, Tenay and West, it never changes. I make this compliant about the WWE but it was really bad here tonight.
- Booking a blow-off match. It doesn't end with a swerve! How much bigger can you get than Angle/Joe for every title known to man? There wasn't a need for a swerve just let these guy finish what was going on, it was a decent match and the fans were really behind it, great way to take the steam out.
- Bar room brawl. Whatever.
OVERALL: The in-ring stuff was okay, Dr. Nash was hilarious, other than that the show was just BLAH. It felt like it went for hours and hours and hours. The best booking on the show was to a Steiners/Team 3-D match? Seriously? Watching this company is (and I know this analogy is played out) just like WCW in its dying days. It's just f'n painful.
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Post by hofclemens on Aug 12, 2007 22:15:15 GMT -5
the begining and the end of the angle/joe match was crap but the in between when they actually wrestled was great. didnt catch their first couple of matches but this made me want to go get the dvds, atleast thats a positive. The swerve was wayyy too predictable. I sort of thought that is what we were getting and then when Angle did his over the top reactions it cemented that thought
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Post by crimsoncross on Aug 12, 2007 22:16:57 GMT -5
ADAM “PACMAN” JONES
I was suprised to see Killings back, kinda like the angle they're doing here with these two...
WINNER TAKES ALL – EVERY TITLE ON THE LINE
Olympic gold medalist Kurt Angle vs. “The Samoan Submission Machine” Samoa Joe
Those poor saps in the front row don't see their hero Samoa Joe win, I'm glad that Angle won... I know that people will say that doom has fallen again on TNA with Joe not winning and getting pushed aside... I don't see it that way. Solid MATCH!
DOOMSDAY CHAMBER OF BLOOD
Sting, Abyss & “The Punisher” Andrew Martin vs. “The Instant Classic” Christian Cage, “The Phenomenal” AJ Styles & Tomko
Glad that Abyss won this match, this was a highlight of the night for Abyss fans... this was another solid match.
TAG TEAM DREAM MATCH
The Steiner Brothers vs. Team 3D
Not a bad match, glad that the Steiners won in the end... the Frankensteiner from Scott was killer once again!
BARROOM BRAWL
“The War Machine” Rhino vs. “Cowboy” James Storm
This was an okey brawl, rather have seen Rhino win but Storm is a star in TNA and he's getting a solid push.
HUMILIATION MATCH
Eric Young vs. Robert Roode w/ Ms. Brooks
So-So match, enough with this feud... lets move on, the only storyline that I'am tired of.
The Latin American Xchange vs. The Voodoo Kin Mafia
A better match then I thought, the ending could've been smoother, but I'm glad that LAX got the victory and Hector is on their side, I like the face turn for LAX and the crowd likes them.
“Wildcat” Chris Harris vs. The Debut of Dustin Rhodes’ “Black Reign”
The crowd sucked for this beat down, I liked it and the new / old look of Dustin is cool... I love the brutal side that he's brought to the table.
The Motor City Machineguns vs. Triple X vs. “The Guru” Sonjay Dutt & “Black Machismo” Jay Lethal
SOLID! Shocked that Lethal and Dutt won, and a feud between Daniels and Lethal looks great... this kicked the show off well.
Raven vs. Kazarian
A descent match, glad that Kaz won and it shows that Raven can still get crazy with the moves.
Final Thoughts
This was a really good pay-per-view, the only problems I had was the Eric Young vs. Roode feud and the not so smooth ending to the LAX vs. VKM match. I've always liked Kurt Angle, but I almost got pulled in by the Joe marks... I'm glad Angle won and now whats next, that will be interesting with all the belts he holds. I like Samoa Joe, but his future in the company looks dead and well thats the name of the game I guess. Overall TNA delivered a solid product and I'm excited again to see what happens next...
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Post by dukedave on Aug 12, 2007 22:21:11 GMT -5
Once, again Havoc is the voice of reason and the one with a positive outlook on things.  What's the big deal with the swerve that everyone knew was coming. It kept the belt off Joe. Samoa Joe that is, don't want that confusion again. I was surprised I ordered it but there was nothing on TV. I was pleasantly surprised. I might have been drunk too so that might have something to do with it. |
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Post by crimsoncross on Aug 12, 2007 22:27:24 GMT -5
Once, again Havoc is the voice of reason and the one with a positive outlook on things. What's the big deal with the swerve that everyone knew was coming. It kept the belt off Joe. Samoa Joe that is, don't want that confusion again. I was surprised I ordered it but there was nothing on TV. I was pleasantly surprised. I might have been drunk too so that might have something to do with it. Double Suprisenight... If JOE is not headed to the WWE, then whats next in TNA for him...? Anyway, whats to follow will be interesting... |
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Post by Highway61Revisited on Aug 12, 2007 22:27:26 GMT -5
The idea that people think TNA is doomed because Joe lost is a tad presuppositious on your part. TNA books a "Winner Will Have Ultimo Dragon Amounts of Titles Match" and pushes it as the blow-off to the feud between Joe/Angle. The pre-show had the wonderful video package with all the important TNA personnel recollecting the "Greatest Feud Ever" and it gives this a really, geniune epic feeling.
What do they do? They Russo it. Just like everything this company has ever done. They book this blow off match to have a screw job finish, they have an undercard that's littered with matches that don't mean much and put the same wrestlers in the exact same situation that said wrestlers have always been in, and to satisfy the workrate marks, I think, they put on that fun-as-hell spotfest at the beginning of the show.
No one thinks TNA is dead because of this booking of Joe, though they had something hot once upon a time and they've really, really screwed that up. No, people think TNA is screwed because they make the same mistakes that WCW made.
They've really got themselves in a corner now with Kurt Angle holding every title, so, it should be fun to watch some really convoluted booking fly now.
Just for the record: Yuji Nagata is the IWGP champion, not Kurt Angle.
EDIT: Again, it's not that I wanted them to keep the belt on Joe. I just wanted a clean finish. That's all.
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Post by misterb on Aug 12, 2007 23:29:41 GMT -5
I admittedly have not watched a lot of TNA since Russo came back. I've followed results on all the sites, but I haven't watched. Is there anyone - I repeat, ANYONE - who did not know the "swerve" at the end of Angle-Joe the SECOND she started coming out on Impact weeks ago?
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Post by dukedave on Aug 13, 2007 8:03:05 GMT -5
That dance really didn't help Joe's image as a bada$$ tough guy. It made him look like a fat, weird looking Samoan. Oh,wait...
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Post by JED-SE on Aug 13, 2007 8:14:21 GMT -5
I actually ordered this PPV. Not a bad PPV. I'm not going to compare WWE and TNA because it's two different companies on two different levels. I just can't get into Pacman Jones, or Kkwick. Not a bad promo, but nothing worth getting excited about either. (afterall it is Pacman and Kkwick) I actually did love the Steiner brothers finish. The match wasn't fabulous, but having Scott do the Frankensteiner was actually pretty cool. They should have finished the match with that. (JMO) LAX vs VKM. Not a bad finish. Who on earth is this woman in the corner of VKM? Not impressed yet. We'll have to see where they go with her. Good to see Abyss win the match, but I doubt he will beat Angle at the next PPV. I'm sure Mitchell's new wrestler will somehow be involved with this match and cost Abyss the title. Rhyno vs James Storm. Not bad, but not the good either. Looks like they want to go somewhere with Rhyno and his being "off the wagon" angle. We'll have to see. Harris vs. Blackdust - Okay I know his name is black reign, but he may as well have been called blackdust. He looks like goldust only he's wearing black paint and black clothes, hence the name Blackdust. Actually this isn't a bad set up between the two, but they better go somewhere with these two, or it was completely pointless to bring back Rhodes in the first place. Triple X vs. Motorcity machine guns vs. Dutt and Lethal. - I like Lethal, and it's good to see him get the victory over Daniels. I love Daniels too, and it looks like this will be a good one on one feud. I hope they eventually give Daniels the win over Lethal. Young vs Roode - I'm happy to see Roode get the victory, but they could have given him a clean finish. I hope this feud ends so Roode can move onto better things, but it looks like they are going to keep it going.  Angle vs. Joe. Good match. Not match of the year, but good nonetheless. I'm actually not bothered by the finish, even though it was predictable. Angle was funny with the whole, "Karen's here? Did she say anything about me?" While the outcome was predictable, it was a good set up. I just think it sucks that Samoa Joe is STILL not the Champ. Overall, it was worth 29.99 + programming fee + tax. It looks like they are trying to do a lot of setups, which is good. However they need to go somewhere with these set-ups. They've done this in the past, and had lousy finishes. Lets hope they don't repeat this. |
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Post by gatekeeper on Aug 13, 2007 9:31:50 GMT -5
So, the last 2 TNA tag - team champions have been: 1. Kurt Angle 2. Samoa Joe I don't get it. Even though WWE has few full time tag - teams, at least 2 guys hold the belts. And nice build up to black reign only to have him job out to Chris Harris. Even Santino Marella beat Umaga in his debut. I just don't get this fed. The Steiners were the heels when they fought Team 3D (the PPV where Animal replaced Scott). Now, less than a month later, they are the faces without really changing their on air persona. Russo sucks. Bad. I hope Angle gets injured and totally screws over the whole company and shows Russo that putting every belt on 1 guy is totally retarded. |
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Post by cakejedi on Aug 13, 2007 10:07:46 GMT -5
It might have been subpar but it was still a frankensteiner from Scotty! Without assistance from a cage! (H61R will mark for the Steiners until the day he dies.) I am with you H61R! I am a big Steiners fan and am glad that they are teaming together again. They need to end their career as a team, not singles wrestlers! |
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Post by JED-SE on Aug 13, 2007 10:52:43 GMT -5
[ So, the last 2 TNA tag - team champions have been: 1. Kurt Angle 2. Samoa Joe I don't get it. Even though WWE has few full time tag - teams, at least 2 guys hold the belts. And nice build up to black reign only to have him job out to Chris Harris. Even Santino Marella beat Umaga in his debut. I just don't get this fed. The Steiners were the heels when they fought Team 3D (the PPV where Animal replaced Scott). Now, less than a month later, they are the faces without really changing their on air persona. Russo sucks. Bad. I hope Angle gets injured and totally screws over the whole company and shows Russo that putting every belt on 1 guy is totally retarded. Actually, Chris Harris got his a$$ beat, Rhodes just lost by DQ. Can't disagree with you about the tag-team championship situation Payback. They wanted more than just the TNA belts on the line for some reason. What was once a decent tag-division is now just lame because the last two tag-team champions are just single's wrestlers without partners. I actually liked the Steiner's and 3D turn, but I would have been nicer had they not rushed the switch. |
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Post by mft on Aug 13, 2007 11:01:10 GMT -5
I hope Angle gets injured and totally screws over the whole company and shows Russo that putting every belt on 1 guy is totally retarded. Nice thinking, hoping someone gets injured. Everyone knows Russo has crappy booking, but to hope Angle gets injured? I know (hope) you are being facetious and are just hoping for the worse since you hate Russo and TNA. |
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Post by Highway61Revisited on Aug 13, 2007 11:07:10 GMT -5
Payback's right, putting all the titles on one guy is a terrible, terrible plan. Especially when said guy is injury prone and a rumored drug addict.
I'm surprised noone's mentioned how terrible that closing stretch, even before the Karen Angle retardedness, of Angle/Joe was, that was just terrible, terrible wrestling.
By the way is TNA actually stupid enough to think that Kurt Angle is the future of their company? I'm so tired of watching these WWE castaways come in and TNA actually think that they're doing themelves and their fanbase a favor by putting them over.
Samoa Joe was a homegrown talent who the fans were really, really behind until "Please Don't Send Me to Rehab" Kurt Angle showed up. Ever since they've booked Joe as Angle's job boy and taken all of the steam out of the hottest thing they had.
Not to mention do they not realize how bush league this makes them seem? When Angle beats Joe, and he beats him every time, it just makes the WWE product look 100X better than you. Do they even care? Do the people at TNA even think?
What do they do now? Book Angle/Sting for a one time PPV pop? Cool. Let those two carry you into the future. I know it probably won't be a clean finish though. That's just too much to ask of Russo.
EDIT: Oh and apparently TNA has told Alex Wojcik that he can't bring his laptop to shows anymore. He's TNA's biggest fanboy and always, always, always gives positive reviews to their company. He says he's not coming back if that rule doesn't change.
Slick thinking, TNA. You f***in' morons.
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Post by Aquinas on Aug 13, 2007 11:11:10 GMT -5
I hope Angle gets injured and totally screws over the whole company and shows Russo that putting every belt on 1 guy is totally retarded. Nice thinking, hoping someone gets injured. Everyone knows Russo has crappy booking, but to hope Angle gets injured? I know (hope) you are being facetious and are just hoping for the worse since you hate Russo and TNA. I distinctly recall getting my head bitten off for making a similar comment about Barry Bonds, months ago. |
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Post by mft on Aug 13, 2007 11:23:32 GMT -5
Unless they're some kind of violent felon, child predator,etc...then I don't have a care in the world about them.
...I'm no Bonds fan either, but definitely do not wish any injury to him. I'm just let him enjoy the next 5-6 years until A-Rod smashes his record.
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