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Post by smathis on Nov 20, 2006 13:59:21 GMT -5
Thanks for the kind words, Payback.
It's unfortunate that Russo & Co. would want to turn AJ heel at this point. Maybe he'll be able to pull it off, maybe not. Personally, I wouldn't buy it. He's too much of a pretty boy at this stage in his career. Also, he's very over with the fans. It would be like trying to turn the Rock and Roll Express into the Moondogs. Ain't gonna work. They tried it with the Fabulous Ones in Memphis -- intro'ing them as heels IIRC -- only to be overturned by fan reaction. Heh, *fans* actually having a say in things outside of "Cyber Sunday". Those were the days...
Sounds like TNA isn't paying attention to their own audience but, rather, trying to push a storyline for the sake of pushing a storyline. Which has Vince Russo's fingerprints all over it.
I'm one of those wrestling fans that will get frustrated with a show and stop watching and then come back a few months later to see if things have changed for the better.
Right now, the only wrestling I can stand is ECW and TNA. A few more Russo "swerves" like this and I may be dropping down to just ECW.
Imagine if Dixie would've financed Ring of Honor.
I could rant more, especially about how their totally misusing Angle by putting him over their home-grown stars. But I'm just getting myself worked up now.
Is it too much to ask that Russo be set up for an Ole Kick from Samoa Joe? Heck, if I were Joe, I'd be shopping around WWE right about now. If he can retain the integrity of his character and exercise limited creative control -- aka not be cast as a blathering slobber monster like Umaga -- he would be a gold mine. Vince has already seen what other RoH talent can do with CM Punk, London and Kendrick. Why not give the Samoan Submission Machine a spot?
Triple H vs. Samoa Joe. That would be sweet!
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Post by PureHatred on Nov 20, 2006 14:54:21 GMT -5
The whole PPV was junk.
From Roode working the pre-game again, to the pointless Killings/Hoyt tag match, to the VKM segment, to the teased AJ turn (didn't Sabin JUST turn?)...
And the last three matches were the worst:
You strip LAX of the titles for buring the flag? Is this some convuluted statement on Freedom of expression? Did anyone notice that fans were actually booing Cornette? Did TNA just accidntally give face heat to their best heels..a group of "flag-burners?" Seriously...if you want to keep LAX heels you force them to defend their belts in a Flag Match (against AMW or whatever), have them cheat to win, and then whatever face team you want to push can run out and save the flags.
Sting/Abyss: I have NEVER heard of any instance of the refree forcing a champion to lose the belt by DQ. They just invented this stipulation. And by the way, Abyss just jobbed cleanly on your "primetime special." So viewers tuning in this Thursday will see a guy who just tapped like a little girl as your champion because he won on a technicality. Maybe it works if this is a sneaky heel type, but he's a "monster.
So much fo TNAs quality booking of the title.
Finally....the match was a letdown and letting Joe lose cleanly was dumb. Have a screwed up edning or Angle pull out a small package or something so you can keep heat for a possible rematch.
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Post by ewt on Nov 20, 2006 16:39:51 GMT -5
1.) The booking for this PPV was rancid. 2.) This thread can only end in tragedy. If this is a TNA thread is there any other way for it to end. So lets try this. Cena, Umaga, Raw and the WWE ring crew guys are the greatest thing since the invention of air. Anything TNA is obviously bad. Having said that just what is TNA doing. Angle makes Joe tapout, LAX wins but has no titles and Sting loses his via dq. WHAT THE F. I like TNA and so desperatley want them to succeed. Just because I don't like the current WWE product. BUT I just can't see them making it. They need a new story writer. Someone with a fresh non-pro wrestling past. Kris, Mark, Tom and even my 2 year would be good. I told someone a good comic book writer might be a way to go??? |
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Post by ewt on Nov 20, 2006 16:42:20 GMT -5
TNA does not charge for a bi-weekly taping or a PPV. So these "fans" that show up to watch are nothing more than beer drinking red necks that have nothing better to do than to go out on a Sunday Night and watch guys in tights. Seriously; why should the fans boo the "direction" of TNA when they are seeing it for free? If they wasted their money on it then different story. Hey that hurts I am a beer drinking red neck and would hate to lumped in with these guys. I may cry  |
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Post by BDS on Nov 20, 2006 16:58:02 GMT -5
If this is a TNA thread is there any other way for it to end. So lets try this. Cena, Umaga, Raw and the WWE ring crew guys are the greatest thing since the invention of air. Anything TNA is obviously bad. Thank you, ewt. This brought a smile to my face at the end of a busy day. |
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welsh
Midcarder
Born in the USA...
Posts: 94
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Post by welsh on Nov 20, 2006 17:13:27 GMT -5
You strip LAX of the titles for buring the flag? Is this some convuluted statement on Freedom of expression? Did anyone notice that fans were actually booing Cornette? Did TNA just accidntally give face heat to their best heels..a group of "flag-burners?" Seriously...if you want to keep LAX heels you force them to defend their belts in a Flag Match (against AMW or whatever), have them cheat to win, and then whatever face team you want to push can run out and save the flags.
This is why I love this board. Seriously, I am not good at original angles in my fed (I had a lottery for the no 1 contender after the Ron Simmons thing !!) and I rely on you guys. This post has immediately made it into my angles for Stars and Stripes win they debut ( I am in 2093 so I may have to stah it for a while...  ) What makes me laugh is that I could trawl this board for 5 minutes and I could book TNA for a month on the great ideas in it. |
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Post by sickman on Nov 20, 2006 17:22:37 GMT -5
TNA does not charge for a bi-weekly taping or a PPV. So these "fans" that show up to watch are nothing more than beer drinking red necks that have nothing better to do than to go out on a Sunday Night and watch guys in tights. Seriously; why should the fans boo the "direction" of TNA when they are seeing it for free? If they wasted their money on it then different story. Hey that hurts I am a beer drinking red neck and would hate to lumped in with these guys. I may cry ewt; I sincerely apologize................that you are a beer drinking redneck  I joke, I kid. |
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Post by ewt on Nov 20, 2006 19:07:52 GMT -5
Hey that hurts I am a beer drinking red neck and would hate to lumped in with these guys. I may cry ewt; I sincerely apologize................that you are a beer drinking redneck I joke, I kid. I also drive a truck and live & work on a farm. Corn, beans, etc. I also watch Nascar. AND Yes my wife thinks my tractor's sexy!! ;D ;D |
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Post by MikeMcKinney on Nov 21, 2006 2:47:33 GMT -5
Ok, this PPV was the worst PPV TNA has put out this year. Now that I got that off my chest!! To strip LAX of the tag belts is just pure stupidity..They are the best thing in TNA and if TNA strips them of the belts on Thurs...then they are TARDS!! Sting losing the belt on a DQ???WTF!!! is that. Then I get to Joe and Kurt, the match wasn't to bad, but having a guy you built up for a year in a half, lose cleanly in the middle of the ring... NOW THATS STUPID!!! It doesn't leave any room for the rematch to stand on!! Kurt should win but leave some sense of doubt.. anything to make people think.. "damn that was close and could have gone either way" but insted have the guy who has destroyed everyone in his path.. tap in the middle of the ring....
Things I liked...(it wasn't much but here it goes) Ravens new group, since Raven is washed up it's nice to see some young guys in their. Austin Starr is damn good. and Sabin heel turn is looking good! Stings tumb tack bumb, was sweet and very shocking!
Things need to get better fast or wrestling will be a one trick pony again real soon!!
tkx again, the dice don't lie!
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Post by swarm on Nov 21, 2006 9:43:42 GMT -5
MikeMckinney gets it...
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Post by bmurderh8s on Nov 21, 2006 9:45:13 GMT -5
Whenever I try to "get it", it gives me a headache. at Swarm. ;D |
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Post by swarm on Nov 21, 2006 10:36:31 GMT -5
I don't get it.  |
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Post by franchise on Nov 21, 2006 21:56:09 GMT -5
I ordered the ppv to see Angle vs. Joe, and I was disappointed, with the entire ppv. I've watched tna since day one, and it's been hard at times, but I continued to watch. Alot of what Swarm has said regarding tna, I didn't always agree with, but I agree with EVERYTHING he said about the ppv. NO WORLD TITLE SHOULD CHANGE HANDS BY DQ!!!!!!!! I don't care if it's the WWE, ECW, NWA/TNA, etc...... I could go on and on, but why bother? Swarm, your opinion mirrors mine.
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Post by smathis on Nov 22, 2006 0:03:32 GMT -5
I'll save Swarm the trouble. strong.  |
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Post by swarm on Nov 22, 2006 0:17:13 GMT -5
what he said.
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Post by Vidtek on Nov 22, 2006 2:29:42 GMT -5
What is there to "get"? Look even I can admit that TNA has booking issues that need to be cleared up (ie FIRE RUSSO!), but I'm just not going to go around and say it sucks and give up on it because the "competition" has been around for 30 years or so and has a bigger head start on things! I watched and was a fan of the XFL for crying out loud! Just becasue something is new and is going threw growing pains doesn't mean it shoudl be written off all together right away. So I still watch it, and I know it can get better. How long that takes, that's another subject....
Big Time
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Post by swarm on Nov 22, 2006 8:11:54 GMT -5
that's great but TNA isn't new...it's been sucking for years.
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Post by behindthebook on Nov 22, 2006 9:08:25 GMT -5
Awful. Just awful. I’m a TNA fan and I don’t get it. . . Actually I do, when viewed through the appropriate filters, every ill conceived and poorly executed moment of this PPV makes sense. So let me put on my Devil’s advocate hat, my Vince Russo beer goggles and take a stab at it.
First, lets take the stripping of LAX by Cornette. This is a great move! The tag division is one of TNA’s greatest strengths, and what better way to highlight that then with a tournament for the vacant titles? They haven’t had a tag tournament in over a year! Sure it gives face heat to LAX in the process, but Konnan is strong enough on the mic to kill that, and the heel heat it gives to Cornette can only be a good thing. After all, Vince Russo helped perfect the Evil Boss character in Mr. McMahon during the attitude era, so it’s a character he’s very comfortable writing. Brilliant! Four star move!
Teasing an AJ Styles heel turn? Awesome idea! Remember what a great job Russo did booking a heel AJ as champ back during the weekly PPV days? Well, AJ’s mic skills are EVEN stronger now then they were when he was the leader of S.E.X! I know, it’s hard to believe, but it’s true. An AJ heel turn will lead to guaranteed big time feuds with TNA’s top faces. Imagine it now. . . AJ vs. Killings! AJ vs. Hoyt! AJ vs. Rhyno (actually, that one might not suck)!
Sting losing the belt to Abyss by DQ? Again, top notch booking. Sting’s contract is almost up, right? Well, this way if negotiations break down, they’ve got the belt off of him and on to a solid transitional champ. But, if they sign Sting to an extension, then they’ve got a solid gold rematch just waiting to happen! Plus, Sting is so much stronger as the challenger then he is as a champion that it’s only natural to have him have the 13th shortest reign in the history of the NWA championship! And having it happen on a DQ also helps to point out one of the differences between TNA and the WWE. It’s all about establishing brand identity, baby!
Finally, Joe losses clean to Angle. Joe fans should be happy about this. Joe fans should be ecstatic about this. Joe fans should be doing a crazy end zone dance that would get them penalized in the NFL over this! There should be fireworks, dancing girls, and an original song by Aerosmith exclusively written for this occasion! That is how big the celebration of this loss should be for Joe fans. Think about it! For to long now, Joe’s whole world has been about the streak. When’s it going to end? Who’s going to end it? Does it even count? Blah blah blah. Now all that’s behind him! He can move on! We can move on! And of course it had to clean! Look at what happened to Goldberg when his streak ended in a tainted way. All down hill. This clean job will diffidently help Joe maintain his heat. And as for Angle, he’s in perfect position now to be launched into a feud for the title! After all, in the span of just a few days he got both Joe and the NEW heavyweight champion to tap in the middle of the ring! TNA = Total Nonstop Angle!!!
Okay. . . I’m done now. . . I feel dirty.
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Post by smathis on Nov 22, 2006 11:21:41 GMT -5
Great job as Devil's Advocate, behindthebook. First, lets take the stripping of LAX by Cornette. This is a great move! The tag division is one of TNA's greatest strengths, and what better way to highlight that then with a tournament for the vacant titles? They haven't had a tag tournament in over a year! Sure it gives face heat to LAX in the process, but Konnan is strong enough on the mic to kill that, and the heel heat it gives to Cornette can only be a good thing. After all, Vince Russo helped perfect the Evil Boss character in Mr. McMahon during the attitude era, so it's a character he's very comfortable writing. Brilliant! Four star move! Two problems with this. First, the face heat is a big problem for LAX. Can Konnan kill it? Maybe. But, remember, Austin was a heel too. I think it could backfire big time, which would be good for Homicide and Hernandez. Second problem is the Evil Boss character. This is the wrong way to go about setting up the Heel boss. He should be making life difficult for faces or heels about to turn face. Not screwing over the heels. Storyline disconnect. The Evil Commissioner is also an overused and tired angle. It's become as predictable as the hot tag. It doesn't help matters that Russo's starting out with poor execution. If he wanted to generate heat for Cornette, then he should've had him mucking up Team 3D's shot at the title. Not LAX. Also, Cornette has publicly expressed that he is not happy to be working with Russo again. Why set up a guy who may be on his way out to be your new Vince McMahon? Once they get the Evil Commish back in action, Cornette will probably bail and cite health issues, which he's been having. Who becomes evil commish then? Jarrett?! Teasing an AJ Styles heel turn? Awesome idea! Remember what a great job Russo did booking a heel AJ as champ back during the weekly PPV days? Well, AJ’s mic skills are EVEN stronger now then they were when he was the leader of S.E.X! I know, it’s hard to believe, but it’s true. An AJ heel turn will lead to guaranteed big time feuds with TNA’s top faces. Imagine it now. . . AJ vs. Killings! AJ vs. Hoyt! AJ vs. Rhyno (actually, that one might not suck)! Problem is he won't be going up against Killings or Rhyno. He's X-division. So he'll be going up against Sonjay and Shark Boy. X-division already has its fair share of heels (Aries -um Starr-, Shelley, Sabin). It seems a waste to dilute someone who is so over with the fans at this point. Daniels works well as a heel. At this point, he's also not a viable contender for the NWA championship, in my opinion. Styles would be better thrown in the mix with Angle and Joe for the NWA title. Styles vs. Angle vs. Joe *should* be the lineup for the world title, ala the Edge vs. Triple-H vs. Cena for the WWE title earlier this year. TNA could use Angle to send Styles and Joe through the roof. The brand will live and die by its homegrown stars, not by the latest WWE rejects (James Gang anyone?). Sting losing the belt to Abyss by DQ? Again, top notch booking. Sting's contract is almost up, right? Well, this way if negotiations break down, they’ve got the belt off of him and on to a solid transitional champ. But, if they sign Sting to an extension, then they’ve got a solid gold rematch just waiting to happen! Plus, Sting is so much stronger as the challenger then he is as a champion that it’s only natural to have him have the 13th shortest reign in the history of the NWA championship! And having it happen on a DQ also helps to point out one of the differences between TNA and the WWE. It's all about establishing brand identity, baby! Sting had two viable paths to offload the belt. Samoa Joe wanted a shot after holding the belt hostage. A really good buildup could have taken place between Sting fighting Joe for the championship at Genesis, with Joe still hanging on to the belt by hook or by crook. The fan reaction was pretty definitive. People want to see Joe with the belt. That would've also set the wheels in motion for an incredible series of matches between Joe and Angle. Given time and build, these two could easily put together a program that would be 4 stars or better. The other viable path was Christian. His feud with Rhyno was done with before the barbed wire match. Now it's just tired. Christian wanted a shot at the title. He should've gotten it. Then we'd have a somewhat viable heel champ with Angle and Joe hot on his heels. He'd be a transitional champ, sure. But he's a better pick than Abyss, who is neither a viable contender/champ or an inspiring heel. We can discuss what putting the belt on Sting and taking it off three weeks later does for the legitimacy of the NWA title some other time. Finally, Joe losses clean to Angle. Joe fans should be happy about this. Joe fans should be ecstatic about this. Joe fans should be doing a crazy end zone dance that would get them penalized in the NFL over this! There should be fireworks, dancing girls, and an original song by Aerosmith exclusively written for this occasion! That is how big the celebration of this loss should be for Joe fans. Think about it! For to long now, Joe's whole world has been about the streak. When's it going to end? Who's going to end it? Does it even count? Blah blah blah. Now all that’s behind him! He can move on! We can move on! And of course it had to clean! Look at what happened to Goldberg when his streak ended in a tainted way. All down hill. This clean job will diffidently help Joe maintain his heat. And as for Angle, he’s in perfect position now to be launched into a feud for the title! After all, in the span of just a few days he got both Joe and the NEW heavyweight champion to tap in the middle of the ring! TNA = Total Nonstop Angle!!! I think Joe's lost a lot of heat. I think TNA's lost a bit of credibility. Everyone knew Angle was the real deal. He doesn't need to squash the TNA roster to prove anything. A better booking would've been a time limit draw for the first match. Then a second match, possibly a third to settle the score. That way, even if Joe does a clean job, he hasn't lost any heat. Instead, Joe goes down like a chump. Which makes the guy TNA has been building as the most dominant wrestler on its roster look like he can't hang in the ring with a WWE midcarder. How does the rest of the TNA roster look in comparison? At this point, the talent looks so subpar to me that I wouldn't be surprised if Mickie James became the X-division champion and Chris Masters came over and took the NWA title. Which sucks because I think the TNA roster actually has more hungry, pure talent than any of the WWE shows. Okay. . . I’m done now. . . I feel dirty. You should. Good job, though. Russo sucks. His booking is short-sighted and non-sensical. That's because he puts the "story" before the wrestling. Rather than making the wrestling central to the story that is unfolding. It's a rough road trying to make Russo's inadequacies smell like something other than the dungpile they are. You did well. |
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Post by Wildfire on Nov 22, 2006 11:30:42 GMT -5
Nice post Btb... A Heculean effort for sure!
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