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Post by j on Aug 24, 2004 9:22:34 GMT -5
How can you have a 2 hour wrestling program with only 2 matches?  last night on RAW we saw Jericho vs Edge and Regal vs. Flair and that's it!!! We spend 1/2 hour on the diva thing, 1/2 hour on a stupid wedding, Orton & Triple H really didn't get much time. This maybe a new all-time low folks. |
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Post by TheOtherTravis on Aug 24, 2004 9:42:03 GMT -5
I was thinking the exact same thing when I looked up the results this morning. It's a shame when you have as much talent as they do on Raw, and they pull some crap like that.  |
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Post by Graymar on Aug 24, 2004 9:44:16 GMT -5
I once ran a WGX 2-hour show with 0 matches!
Graymar
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Post by Talison on Aug 24, 2004 10:13:29 GMT -5
The wedding wasn't as bad as I expected. Not saying it was great, but it had a bit of humor, a wicked bump, and wasn't 100% stupid.
Good to see the Rock back but the Diva thing went on forever. I really thought they would abandon it by now, seeing as it has gotten no good reviews.
The two matches we got were good, but you really expect to see more. I can't imagine paying to see it live and getting only two matches. I think I've seen as many as 8 matches on Raw when I've gone before, counting Heat matches. But that's still usually about 6 matches on Raw.
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Like Watching Paint Dry
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Post by Like Watching Paint Dry on Aug 25, 2004 7:03:52 GMT -5
Internet wrestling fans like to complain about the lack of time devoted to in ring wrestling, yet truth be told this sentiment reflects only a small segment of the audience. Ratings trends consistently show that most fans want much shorter matches mixed with more of an non-wrestling entertainment orientation with backstage vignettes, in ring promos, T & A and comedy.
In recent months the Raw show has been built around longer matches and less skits. What happened? The ratings trend has gone down markedly. This will only get worse as Monday Night Football season kicks off (as WWE always loses a portion of it's audience around this time of year).
The only solution is to attract more casual fans through more sports entertainment/crash TV style format. Angles like the Kane/Lita wedding (which scored this weeks HIGHEST rating), the Diva Search (which scored this weeks SECOND highest rating) are more beneficial to the likelihood of gaining new casual viewers than running 3 star Jericho/Edge 15 minute matches. While Internet fans may not like this, they are still likely to watch the shows regardless as they are die hard fans.
Fun fact: While fans on the Internet have in recent weeks complained about the Diva Search skits, since it's inception, week in and week out the girls quarter hours have actually tended to outperform all but the main event overruns (including scoring the shows highest ratings the week of the HHH/Benoit Iron Man match, with the exception of only the opening & overrun).
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Post by Chris Ingersoll on Aug 25, 2004 9:30:08 GMT -5
Internet wrestling fans like to complain about the lack of time devoted to in ring wrestling, yet truth be told this sentiment reflects only a small segment of the audience. That goes for most of the IWC's feelings, really. I feel the same way when people insist that video gamers "want" internet play, when the reality is that only a small percentage actually do and/or can support it. EDIT: I'd like to think that was because of the Rock's presence, but that could just be me. (end Edit) They get booed pretty resoundly in front of most live crowds that I've noticed, too. I think the recent run through Canada was one of the few exceptions. But seriously, guys, this isn't even the first 2-match RAW in recent memory. Of course, the last one involved a battle royal and an Ironman match, but still: two matches. It's all a matter of quality, not quantity. Now, if we're going to discuss the quality of the two matches in question... yeesh.  |
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Post by TheOtherTravis on Aug 25, 2004 15:03:49 GMT -5
Just so I know, could someone please explain the whole concept behind "Internet Wrestling Fan"?
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Post by Chris Ingersoll on Aug 25, 2004 19:49:34 GMT -5
Just so I know, could someone please explain the whole concept behind "Internet Wrestling Fan"? My best shot at it: A "smart" fan who uses the internet to express his opinion about the current state of professional wrestling. That, of course, is the strict, unbiased definition. Editorial comments added to that might resemble: These people are rarely if ever happy with the product, complaining about backstage political maneuverings, incompetant writing/booking staff, "glass ceilings", etc.. Occasionally they may offer constructive criticism, although this too is rare. Anyone care to add? |
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Post by floydthebarber on Aug 26, 2004 5:02:34 GMT -5
First of all...if I was a paying fan going to a RAW show and aIl I got to see was a wedding, a diva competition and 2 matches, I'd be asking for a refund and vowing never to go to a RAW show again. Its one thing to try and attract more casual fans to get the TV ratings up, but come on, what fan who casually watches the product on TV is going to pay $29 or whatever it costs to go to a TV taping when you only get to see a couple of matches. Sure, you get the Heat tapings...but come on!
There is a huge difference between the casual TV fan who wants to see T&A and the core wrestling fan who wants to see good wrestling matches and angles. To be honest, I think the Kane/Lita wedding angle is a complete joke and has only served to turn Kane into a joke. Dressing Kane up in a tux to get married...how can he be taken seriously now as a monster? The worst thing they ever did was remove his mask...he had more personality as a non-talking character than he does now!
And as for Like Watching Paint Dry...who cares if the Diva serach is out performing the wrestling segments...you saying that and people pointing that out only serve to back up what the WWE is doing...which I'm sure 90% of REAL wrestling fans are very frustrated with. I'll be honest, I like it when Torrie Wilson makes an appearance and think there should be more girls on the arms of wrestlers like in the old days...but the WWE has gotten desperate to get people interested again, and if girls bring in people, girls they will use. My question is, what is this Diva going to do when she wins? A playboy playmate wrestling? Come on!
I understand that hardcore wrestling fans only make up a fraction of the TV audience, but I think its a lot higher than some people (paint dry) think. A lot of hardcore fans watch RAW every week because they like wrestling, and its the only show on TV...so they watch it. They like the storylines and the soap opera stuff too...but by catering to wishy-washy fans and ignoring the pleas of the core audience, the WWE is only digging their own grave. The reason why the ratings are down is not because this causual audience isn't tuning it...its because long time fans like myself and some of my friends who used to watch RAW every week during the Monday Night Wars era don't watch anymore. My friends never watch RAW and have no idea whats going on anymore...and the only reason I do is because I check out the newsboards and flick over from time to time to see if a good wrestling match is going to happen in the main event! Diva searches and lame wedding angles are not a long term solution to the problem of a dwindling audience...it just isn't. The only reason why Vince is considerend a genius is because for every 5-10 bad ideas he has, he has one really good one (or finds one really good talent) and gets the core fans interested again. Y2J's debut...Brock Lesnar...Benoit and Eddy getting the big push...Randy Orton and Eugene...these are all primarily WRESTLING moves that have helped keep fans interested and probably generated more interest than any Diva search might do. Yes...China and Sable and other divas in the past have proven to be big draws too with the teen boy audience...but is it really worth it?
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Like Watching Paint Dry
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Post by Like Watching Paint Dry on Aug 26, 2004 7:09:30 GMT -5
And as for Like Watching Paint Dry...who cares if the Diva serach is out performing the wrestling segments... I'd say anyone who wants to intelligently discuss the product should care about factual ratings trends...providing they are making an attempt to speak honestly. I understand that hardcore wrestling fans only make up a fraction of the TV audience, but I think its a lot higher than some people (paint dry) think. First of all...don't assume to know 'what' I think. Debate concepts and ideas that I state...but don't assume! For the record, I put my own biases aside (I am a fan of wrestling content myself) and just look at established trends as they exist. In other words I go strictly by the facts I come across in forming educated opinions. A lot of hardcore fans watch RAW every week because they like wrestling, and its the only show on TV...so they watch it. They like the storylines and the soap opera stuff too...but by catering to wishy-washy fans and ignoring the pleas of the core audience, the WWE is only digging their own grave. This just doesn't follow from the facts. At the time of WWE's boom period the format was built around short 3-5 minute matches...well written skits and edgy content that was considered 'cool' by the core teen-young adult demographic. Characters like 'evil Mr. McMahon, The Rock, Stone Cold & DX are what made fans tune in. The highest segment in history was The Rock/Mick Foley 'This is Your Life' skit. It's followed closely by (believe it or not) the Brisco/Patterson vs Mean Street Posse Street Fight Comedy Match. The highest overrun run was where Austin fought Undertaker with Stone Cold strapped to the symbol and raised above the arena. In other words...sports entertainment material.Not Iron Man matches or 30 minute mat classics. The content that attracts traditional wrestling fans, while an important part of the package, was NEVER the primary component to the wrestling boom. It was appeals to this legion of so called 'wishy washy' fans that enabled WWE to go public, pocket $250 Million plus in cash reserves and allow VKM at his peak to reach the level of billionaire. The only reason why Vince is considerend a genius is because for every 5-10 bad ideas he has, he has one really good one (or finds one really good talent) and gets the core fans interested again.. LOL. So revolutionizing the entire format of his industry, changing it's very structure of production and in the process successfully converted a regional concept into a national Corporate powerhouse monopoly is just 'luck'. Try being just a tad bit respectful and giving the man the rightful credit his accomplishments are due! I'll close with your opening comment because it illustrates the biggest problem with so many Internet wrestling fans: There is a huge difference between the casual TV fan who wants to see T&A and the core wrestling fan who wants to see good wrestling matches and angles. To be honest, I think the Kane/Lita wedding angle is a complete joke and has only served to turn Kane into a joke. Dressing Kane up in a tux to get married...how can he be taken seriously now as a monster? The worst thing they ever did was remove his mask...he had more personality as a non-talking character than he does now! The above link shows that "Despite extremely mixed reviews from WWE fans (it was love or hate), the wedding severely boosted ratings. The last quarter of hour two scored a 4.0 and the overrun scored a 4.9. Thus, when compared with the average for the show, over one million additional households tuned in for the wedding." The segment pops over ONE MILLION VIEWERS with a MONSTER 4.9 rating, yet you label the segment a 'joke' and claim Kane is being used poorly. He should just 'keep the mask on'. This is a perfect example of the huge disconnect between the type of content most of the audience finds interesting & entertaining...and the counter reaction of the small Internet wrestling fan niche that thinks it knows best for the company and pro wrestling as a whole. Had Internet wrestling fan segment been catered to, the time would have went to another match...which it's highly doubtful would bring in a million viewer increase. The bottomline is pro wrestling is worked entertainment. There is no 'right' form of content...and there is no 'better' form of fan. There is simply attempts to make money and the results that follow. I have no problem with anyone having particular tastes, preferences and biases. My problem is with the trend toward pedantry by so called Internet wrestling experts (and those who parrot their views).I'll often find comments from people who have never been in the business on any level claiming to know 'correct' ways on how the shows 'should' be booked...stated not in the form of opinion but in the form of relaying facts. It's just silly and often ignores verifiable trends because it causes discomfort and exposes contradictions. Even worse than being oblivious, it's intellectual dishonest! |
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Post by gamtime247 on Aug 26, 2004 9:06:17 GMT -5
I think a big problem with wrestling in the current state is wrestling always tends to go up and down with boom periods in between. The biggest problem for wrestling right now is the Internet. Its just too hard to have the fans suprised anymore, with so many "insiders" giving away future storylines and what not. Another big thing that I use to love was when guys would skip federations, just seeing one former wcw star on raw or vise versa would make an entire 2hr show seem like a success. You just really can't have that anymore, you can somewhat with TNA and other feds but its just not the same. I've been watching wrestling for about 20 years and I won't stop no matter how bad it really gets, I just think its gonna take a lot for Vince to bring it back to another big boom period.
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Post by TheOtherTravis on Aug 26, 2004 13:34:07 GMT -5
I'm not attempting to feed into any argument in any way. I see where both sides come from in their stated opinions. And, I'll even admit that the only part of the show that I tuned into was the wedding segment, but not on purpose. I was just extremely surprised that a two hour show only had two matches on it. That is really all I'm saying. And, for the record, I've also been watching wrestling, and WWF/E, for nearly twenty years and I make no plans on stopping any time soon. I never look online for what's going to happen on the show beforehand, and therefore I'm always surprised on Monday nights when I tune in. I don't consider myself a "smart fan" and have been watching wrestling for longer than this 'Internet Wrestling Fan' phenomenon has been going on. I expect more than just wrestling when I tune into a WWE show. I wouldn't like it any other way. And, I would have to be severely deluded to think that I could do things better than Vince. I KNOW that I couldn't, I don't PRETEND that I could, and I will continue to support the WWE product as I have for the past twenty years. Vince obviously understands marketing trends because he took care of the Ted Turner threat, and ultimately won the Monday night wars against WCW. That being said, I expect T&A, skits, and everything else associated with the WWE product everytime I tune in on Monday nights. But, I still thought, when I checked the rest of the results for this past Monday, "What the crap?" It couldn't be helped.  ~Travis |
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Post by EWT on Aug 26, 2004 18:43:44 GMT -5
;D
I have not watched RAW in about 3+ months the only way I find anything out about it is by reading about it on the internet. SAD, SAD, SAD.
I watched a TNA PPV it was good not great.
Thak you Tom for the GWF, LWF and CPC.
Then I can get my fix anytime Iwant.
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Post by floydthebarber on Aug 27, 2004 6:41:15 GMT -5
Thats your opinion. My opinion is just as relevant, even if I don't point to 'factual ratings trends'...and to call my opinion dishonest is a slap in the face! Who do you think you are? My problem with the WWE is that I don't enjoy the product because it caters to a type of fan that I am not. Kane in a tux getting married may bring in big numbers, but TO ME, he comes off as a joke. Maybe that says something about what I do and don't like about wrestling, but don't dump on me cause I'm not willing to use numbers as the basis of my argument!
I assumed that you felt, from all your number crunching that you were of the mind that most fans are casual...I don't pretend or claim to know the ins and outs of the business...but my opinion is based on what I read and what I see...if I'm wrong...so be it...but its still an opinion, and last time I checked I'm allowed to have one!
I agree, catering the the casual fan is what helped bring the WWF at the time a huge boost in ratings during the 90's...but what about that other BOOM in the 80's? Wrestling is, at its core...about WRESTLING! Sure the fluff helps sell it to a wider audience, and thus brings in money and exposure...but unlike the millions of fans who watched the Rock/Mankind segment...I didn't like it. I also didn't think much of the Brisco/Patterson/Mean Street Posse angles either. Maybe I am in the minority...but some of those other huge ratings numbers you pointed at (DX, Evil McMahon, Stone Cold, The Rock) were all WRESTLING RELATED...it has something to do with wresting...a Diva search has what to do with wrestling other than its on a WWE program?
You ask for me to not 'assume' what you think...well, why don't you try to not 'assume what I think about Vince. I said for every 5-10 bad ideas he has, he has one good one...or finds a great talent. I wasn't talking about his corporate aspirations or how regional to national business plan...I WAS TALKING ABOUT WRESTLING! The wrestlers...the angles...or do you watch wrestling so you can crunch numbers? Did I SAY that his monopoly is just luck? No! And who is Vince to me...why do I have to respect the man? Sure he's done a lot of great things in the business...but he's also responsible for a lot of not so great things...so why do I have to respect him? I'll leave the ass kissing to you seeing as how your such a huge admirer...or is that 'assuming' again?
YES! So what if it brings in a 4.9 MONSTER rating...to me, its a joke...its not what makes me like wrestling. Chris Beniot v. HHH in steel cage is what makes me like wrestling. Orton and Benoit shaking hands after their match at SummerSlam is what I like about wrestling. Chris Jericho stirring things up a la Jake The Snake on the Highlite Reel is what I like about wrestling. Kane as an unspeaking, violent monster is what I like about wrestling. So what if a vast majority of the public want to see Kane get married to Lita? My OPINION is that this is a joke...and in my eyes, is whats wrong with wrestling.
I never claimed to say I knew what was best for the company. It is my opinion that it is these 'stunt' angles that causes hardcore 'wrestling' fans to be turned off. I don't mind angles that border on soap opera...I really don't, its part of what wrestling is...but Diva searches and Kane/Lita weddings just don't do it for me...
I really didn't appreciate the tone or the style of your response to my opinion Paint Dry. I pointed you out simply because you had made a point of choosing to take an ‘unbiased’ (yeah right!) look at ratings and the numbers aspect of the business. I don't take kindly to being called an internet fan...I've watched wrestling off and on (mostly on) since Wrestlemania 3...I watched RAW and then watched the Nitro repeat at midnight to 2am during the Monday Night wars...I got tingles seeing Jericho on RAW for the first time...so don't talk like I'm some wanna be booker who hangs out on message boards and claims I have the cure all to the WWE's problems.
Frankly, it is my opinion that your need to attack and beat down anyone who has a genuine opinion about wrestling that doesn’t fit with your own 'by the numbers' approach is egomaniacal. I don't parrot the views of internet wrestling fans...I have my own darn opinions thank you very much!
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Post by Like Watching Paint Dry on Aug 27, 2004 9:21:42 GMT -5
"Thats your opinion. My opinion is just as relevant, even if I don't point to 'factual ratings trends'...and to call my opinion dishonest is a slap in the face!" If I said "In my opinion 2+2=5" I would be making a false statement. If I said "I don't care about facts which contradict my views" and then proceed to speak extemporaneously on a given topic...I'd be someone who is engaging in intellectual dishonesty. There's no simple way to dress this up, it's as simple as that! "My problem with the WWE is that I don't enjoy the product because it caters to a type of fan that I am not." LOL...an elitist in action. Heaven forbid you should be associated with 'those people' when courted! "Kane in a tux getting married may bring in big numbers, but TO ME, he comes off as a joke. Maybe that says something about what I do and don't like about wrestling, but don't dump on me cause I'm not willing to use numbers as the basis of my argument!" Obviously you should 'like' whatever you want, as should the 'type of fan' you seem to despise and smear. My problem is with you 'dumping' on fans who differ from your views. If you don't enjoy the content...than fine. Yet when you then make comments like WWE is 'digging it's own grave' with said content, your moving away from commenting on your own preferences into making a general statement that can be measured by facts. Then when you proceed to state you don't care about 'factual ratings trends' which actually contradict your statement...well then guess what...your being 'intellectually dishonest'. It's because you cross the line from making personal statements to sweeping generalizations that your statement (not personal opinion) becomes open to evaluation. "I agree, catering the the casual fan is what helped bring the WWF at the time a huge boost in ratings during the 90's...but what about that other BOOM in the 80's? Wrestling is, at its core...about WRESTLING!" LOL...ask most hard core fan from the generation proceeding the 'Rock & Wrestling' 1980's boom if what Vince created was akin to what they called 'wrestling' and you'll get a much different answer. From Cyndi Lauper to MTV to Mr. T to Tuesday Night Titans to the WWF cartoon to snakes, birds and the Gobble-D Gooker, the heavily gimmick laden sports entertainment the WWF created in the 1980's showed little resemble to traditional pro wrestling. You could go further back and ask fans from the fifties and sixties if Ray Stevens bumping and stooging was considered 'pro wrestling' content by many of those in and out of the bsiness and you'll also hear a resounding no! Lou Thesz was a huge critic on the young Ric Flair's in ring showmanship , peaking through his interviews, repetitiveness, 'whoo' chant and theatrical selling. Yet despite not being 'pro wrestling' to the previous generation, it somehow passed as pro wrestling content to the Dave Meltzer's of the world who proclaim him the 'greatest ever' In the end it's all 'pro wrestling'. Whether it's Gorgeous George spraying perform, the Katie Vick corpse skit or Jumbo Tsuruta executing a rolling cradle. It's an open ended concept, not some formalized approach with a proper base of fans. This is what elitists who look down on the so called content geared to 'wishy washy' fans just don't seem able to grasp in the mist of their pedantry! "You ask for me to not 'assume' what you think...well, why don't you try to not 'assume what I think about Vince." I comment on what you said...exactly as you said it. That's the difference! "I said for every 5-10 bad ideas he has, he has one good one...or finds a great talent. I wasn't talking about his corporate aspirations or how regional to national business plan...I WAS TALKING ABOUT WRESTLING! The wrestlers...the angles...or do you watch wrestling so you can crunch numbers?" You left out the part where you condescendingly said "the only reason he's considered a genius..." which is just ridiculous. In case you're honestly trying but just don't seem to grasp it...pro wrestling is a process. It doesn't just exist in the forms of the angles, talent & matches...but is the sum of an entire invisible complexity. In terms of WWE, which happens to be the most financially successful company in the history of the business, it's headed by Vince, who in my opinion deserves immense respect for his accomplishments, not goofy snot nosed comments in a snide tone. If as you imply all it took to be considered a genius was finding 'great talent' with 'good angles' there would be more than one full time company in North America making money these days. The 'fact' (not opinion) that there isn't should lead you to re-examine your views, provided you're still not hiding from truth, logic and facts. "And who is Vince to me...why do I have to respect the man? Sure he's done a lot of great things in the business...but he's also responsible for a lot of not so great things...so why do I have to respect him? I'll leave the ass kissing to you seeing as how your such a huge admirer...or is that 'assuming' again?" Son...if belittling a man's accomplishments make you feel special...facts be darned knock yourself out! If being respectful to someone who has done more to provide me with entertainment me than just about anyone that I don't know on a one to one basis makes me an 'ass kiss', than so be it. In my circle, we call it giving credit where credit is due! "Frankly, it is my opinion that your need to attack and beat down anyone who has a genuine opinion about wrestling that doesn't’t fit with your own 'by the numbers' approach is egomaniacal." I think it's sad that you feel I have 'beaten you down'. You mentioned me twice in your initial post, without even the common decency to respond in context to any specific statements made with-in that post. Where I come from, that's called the mark of a coward! When I responded to you, I did so in the form of specific comments you made verbatim. In short, you are no victim here....excluding that of your own ignorance and unwillingness to learn! |
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Post by floydthebarber on Aug 27, 2004 10:05:06 GMT -5
How does me saying that the WWE is catering to a type of fan that I am not make me some sort of elitist? If anyone is guilty of being an elitist, it is most certainly you. Your putting your own warped spin on my choice to like and dislike what I want? Your spinning every bit of my opinion, defining it as invalid simply because I choose to make a point based on what I think? And I don't 'despise' fans who like the WWE as it is...I just feel that the product is getting away from what I like and I know that I am not alone. I may be in the minority, but just because I'm in the minority doesn't make me wrong! What the h*ll is your problem? And whats all this crap about intellectual dishonesty? Who are you trying to impress?
Your entitled to you think what you want to think, and argue this based on your own 'criteria'...but the fact of the matter is that I think your a small man who has some sort of warped intelectually elite view of himself and his abilty to 'win' arguments. It is I who feel sorry for you...talking to you really is like Watching Paint Dry...a BIG WASTE OF TIME!
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Like Watching Paint Dry
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Post by Like Watching Paint Dry on Aug 27, 2004 10:38:49 GMT -5
"What the h*ll is your problem?" My original problem was with your initial out of the blue troll of me. Remember...you called me out without cause! At this point in the thread I just feel sorry for you! "And whats all this crap about intellectual dishonesty? Who are you trying to impress?" Again, instead of replying in context, you run away from the dialogue. Why am I not surprised! "Your entitled to you think what you want to think, and argue this based on your own 'criteria'...but the fact of the matter is that I think your a small man who has some sort of warped intelectually elite view of himself and his abilty to 'win' arguments. It is I who feel sorry for you...talking to you really is like Watching Paint Dry...a BIG WASTE OF TIME!" Sticks and stones Mr. Barber! While I supply facts...you supply childish insults. Thanks for proving you can't back up your silly arguments in the context of a civilized discussion! As the bigger person I wish you well. I'd advise that tolerance of others and a willingness to embrace new concepts...even if they challenge longstanding beliefs and prejudices...will ultimately result in a vastly more rewarding experience for you! |
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Post by floydthebarber on Aug 27, 2004 10:43:54 GMT -5
;D
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Post by floydthebarber on Aug 27, 2004 10:46:17 GMT -5
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Post by Vidtek on Aug 27, 2004 11:00:02 GMT -5
Hey guys, with the risk of geting sucked into this too (which I hope will not happen) can we just agree to disagree about whether or not Kane/Lita weddings and Diva searches are good for wrestling and just admit that a two match show isn't what most people like to see. I sit on both sides here, so don't attack me.
I like wrestling matches, but I'm also a fan of cool angles. While both matches this past Monday had a prety high class of talent (Flair, Regal, Edge and Jericho) THEY SUCKED! The Regal/Flair match was as painfull to watch as anything I've ever seen. What happened to these guys? The bumps looked lame, the spots where off, and even Ric's comedy bumps didn't help this stink fest.
And since when can Chris Jericho and Edge wrestle BADLY! That had to be one of the worst matches I've seen those two involved in. What happend to the ladder match styles? The Ayhatola of Rock and Roll-a? Has Edge's recovery knocked him down that far? Has Chris's focus on the Highlight Reel (a wounderful segment, he has personality like nobody's business) hurt his ring game? Or did the WWE just throw something together to plaster in between one meaningless skit (the Diva search, does the WWE really NEED someone new just to put them in Playboy? What about the other Diva's that haven't done it yet?) and one very well done skit (The Kane/Lita wedding. I loved it. The flower "girl" was cute, the vows were funny and very in character, Hardy's bumb rocked, and this now sets up Shawn Michaels, one of my favorites of all time, to be the knight in shining armor come Unforgivin and rescue Lita from Kane and return her to her love Matt.) If the matches had been better I think this would be a moot point. And lets not forget that nither of you has complained about Randy Orton's spitting in the face of the man that helped make him a star and bashing his head in with the belt. That is great wrestling, angle or in-ring wise.
And just to cap it off, think of it this way, it could be worse, we could have to listen to JBL's promos trying to be JR Ewing. And there is always COTG and LOW to help us in the darker days of wrestling funk. And that's my two copper coin rant for today. I'm Adam Smasher, keep on rollin', dice that is!
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