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Post by floydthebarber on Aug 27, 2004 11:13:27 GMT -5
Now that was an 'opinion'...you thought the matches werent very good, the diva search was meaningless, and enjoyed the wedding angle. Dude...I didn't want to be a part of any argument either...I was just speaking my mind about a 2 match RAW and my own feelings about skit heavy shows. As far as I'm concerned, your 100% right...everyone is entitled to their own opinion...intellectually honest (whatever that means) or not.
I agree to disagree...
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Post by Chris Ingersoll on Aug 27, 2004 11:19:57 GMT -5
The above link shows that "Despite extremely mixed reviews from WWE fans (it was love or hate), the wedding severely boosted ratings. The last quarter of hour two scored a 4.0 and the overrun scored a 4.9. Thus, when compared with the average for the show, over one million additional households tuned in for the wedding." The segment pops over ONE MILLION VIEWERS with a MONSTER 4.9 rating, yet you label the segment a 'joke' and claim Kane is being used poorly. He should just 'keep the mask on'. This is a perfect example of the huge disconnect between the type of content most of the audience finds interesting & entertaining...and the counter reaction of the small Internet wrestling fan niche that thinks it knows best for the company and pro wrestling as a whole. Had Internet wrestling fan segment been catered to, the time would have went to another match...which it's highly doubtful would bring in a million viewer increase. One million people watching the segment != one million people liking, being interested by, or otherwise being entertained by the segment. How many of those million tuned in expecting to see something worth this build-up, got nothing (in their eyes), and walked away from the show disgusted? How many of those million will be back NEXT week? In the end, this bump will do the exact same thing as every other bump in recent memory: the numbers stay jacked up for a week or two (at best), then return to their usual level as the casual viewers tune out and leave the core fanbase -- which continues to watch despite being "ignored" on a regular basis. Although given the dwindling numbers that have occured during non-bump periods, I'd say that more than a few of them are giving up on the product. (Since you apparently like the site, I'm sure you saw www.lordsofpain.net/news/2004_/articles/1092875998.php not ten days ago.) For the record, I found the wedding highly amusing, but I'm a big fan of "Addams Family"-type stuff, and this wasn't that far removed; having just been married myself at the beginning of the month, my wife and I had a blast lauging at it and going "why didn't we think of that?!". From a wrestling standpoint, it served two purposes: it wrote out Matt Hardy so he could have his knee surgery, and it followed through on a stupid stipulation (stupid from the perspective of Lita making it in the first place; in the grand scheme of things, it's no dumber than any other stip). That being said, the segment WAS a joke, no matter what rating it received; everything about it screamed "parody", often at the top of its lungs. And if Kane is being used poorly... well, he should take a number and get in line; I'm pretty sure he knows where it is, since he's been there many times before ( see: Tori/Xpac angle, Katie Vick, etc) and probably will be again before he retires. |
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Post by Like Watching Paint Dry on Aug 27, 2004 11:27:19 GMT -5
Hey guys, with the risk of geting sucked into this too (which I hope will not happen) can we just agree to disagree about whether or not Kane/Lita weddings and Diva searches are good for wrestling and just admit that a two match show isn't what most people like to see. I sit on both sides here, so don't attack me. No problem Adam Smasher. I agree 2 matches in a night isn't much, and I'd chalk it up to being an anomaly. The matches they did have just didn't deliver either in content or in terms of ratings. The WWE/Viacom deal is currently pegged at a massive $600k a week. This is a big part of Vince's cash cow. The fact of the matter is the Spike television contract is soon coming up for renewal and Raw ratings are down markedly from when this deal was signed. The focus on more wrestling after Wrestlemania (announcing matches a week in advance & adding more ring time) has as a trend been a ratings failure. Monday Night Football is around the corner and we're likely to see another drop off. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to predict what the logical direction is for WWE to go creatively in the weeks ahead. The best bet is to go back to the format that's worked successfully in the past! |
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Post by Like Watching Paint Dry on Aug 27, 2004 11:40:44 GMT -5
"One million people watching the segment != one million people liking, being interested by, or otherwise being entertained by the segment. How many of those million tuned in expecting to see something worth this build-up, got nothing (in their eyes), and walked away from the show disgusted? How many of those million will be back NEXT week?" It's impossible to say. Yet you have to remember that television is the prime source of revenue for WWE. When you can point to good numbers for any segment..it helps, not hurts. Hopefully people stick around..who knows. What is known for sure is that the segment DID build a sizeable audience. "That being said, the segment WAS a joke, no matter what rating it received; everything about it screamed "parody", often at the top of its lungs. And if Kane is being used poorly... well, he should take a number and get in line; I'm pretty sure he knows where it is, since he's been there many times before (see: Tori/Xpac angle, Katie Vick, etc) and probably will be again before he retires." The video, the midgets and seeing Kane in that PIMP white tux was just some super cool stuff! |
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Post by Vidtek on Aug 27, 2004 11:43:55 GMT -5
It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to predict what the logical direction is for WWE to go creatively in the weeks ahead. The best bet is to go back to the format that's worked successfully in the past! And as long as it doesn't make the actuall in-ring work suffer (much like this Raw), I'm all for it! Oh, and so long as there are no mysterious eggs or Lita bithing single body parts on the horizon, it could be cool. |
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Post by Like Watching Paint Dry on Aug 27, 2004 12:09:07 GMT -5
"In the end, this bump will do the exact same thing as every other bump in recent memory: the numbers stay jacked up for a week or two (at best), then return to their usual level as the casual viewers tune out and leave the core fanbase -- which continues to watch despite being "ignored" on a regular basis." . Who exactly do you think comprises this 'core' fanbase that doesn't tune out? In what ways do you think they're being 'ignored'? Personally I would imagine that the 'core' audince must be enjoying what they're watching on some level because they seemingly remain a constant presence. Given this level of brand loyalty (regardless of it comes with positive or negative sentiments) focusing on content which attracts those OUTSIDE this audience seems like an intelligent business approach. As I see it, even assuming the 'core' audience didn't enjoy the product, and choses to watch the shows in a state of disgust, the paying audience from this this said demographic still remains large enough to allow the company to remain extremely profitable (albeit in a period of decline). Please expand because I'm curious. |
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Post by Chris Ingersoll on Aug 27, 2004 13:13:00 GMT -5
Who exactly do you think comprises this 'core' fanbase that doesn't tune out? In what ways do you think they're being 'ignored'? I do, for one. Although I've stopped watching the B-shows (Heat and Velocity), but that's more due to me doing other things instead of having those two specific hours to kill. More specifically, by "core" fanbase I was referring to the non-casual wrestling fans. The ones who constantly have to endure the "you know that's all fake" comments from friends and family who don't "get it" (especially in today's kayfabe-is-dead environment). The ones, like most of us, who have been fans unwaveringly since, say, WM3 (adjust that number and/or event appropriately based on your age). The ones who attend house shows and other untelevised events, not just tapings and PPVs (heck, I do my best to AVOID tapings, and the original reason behind this thread is just one example of why). The ones who have had to endure stupidity after stupidity -- both in and out of the ring -- just for the opportunity to skim the good/entertaining parts off the top. More importantly, the ones who continue to watch out of the HOPE that there will be something worth seeing, even when the trend does not look favorable. Only if they stay. If a casual viewer tunes in and enjoys a "sports entertainment" moment like the wedding or even the Rock spending 30 minutes in the ring with a bunch of wannabe Divas, I doubt very highly that it will be enough to retain their viewership, as that sort of thing doesn't happen on a regular basis (... although the Diva thing isn't a good example in this case). If, on the other hand, they tune in and see Benoit and Orton giving away a *** match on free TV (or, in non-star terms, a match of a quality level far exceeding that of most televised matches) and enjoy THAT, then the chance of them tuning in again goes up, as wrestling, at the end of the day, is what is supposed to be happening in that ring. It may not all be good wrestling, but it at least will bear some semblance to the original "hook". Heck, if they just want to tune in because they think Randy Orton is cute (and here I'm referring mostly to women and gay men, clearly, although even a straight guy like me can admit the guy's put together), then I say go for it, since that increases the chances that they'll follow the character and become interested in what happens to him, both in and out of the ring. That kind of attachment doesn't seem likely to happen from a wedding segment or a "this is your life", but that could just be me. Even at it's lowest ratings in the last five years, RAW was still in the Top 3-rated basic cable programs (typically #2, behind Spongebob Squarepants), which is an accomplishment no matter what its past performance may have been (the 4.6 or whatever they got this week used to be barely baseline a few years ago, remember?); this in turn means that they can get higher amounts of money from advertisers and other sponsors, which helps to "keep the company profitable" as much as (if not more than?) ticket and/or PPV sales. Of course, too many near-empty arenas would put a dent in that, but the arenas will never be THAT empty, for several reasons: First off, the "paying audience" at a taping or PPV is not the same as the core audience, as I have alluded to earlier. A fair amount of people who go to televised events do so just to get on TV, to show off their stupid signs, or to generally act like asses and get away with it (the Summerslam crowd, for example). But as you read your news bits on whatever site you visit, you're bound to see "house show gates declining" on a regular basis. This is because the televised events have become SO important to revenues and, indeed, public image, that the loss of spectacle at house shows turns away the casual audience. The fact that certain "superstars" are ONLY present at televised shows further aggravates this (I belive UT may be among those on that list now, as the WWE wants to keep his appearances "special" [read: "profitable"], but that may have changed recently; another example was HBK at the start of his latest return). The "core" audience, as I have described it here, has been ignored in several ways. One, obviously, is the over-emphasis on SE instead of wrestling; I recognize SE's role in making things interesting, but if it's not paid off in the ring, then it's a waste of time IMO -- I can watch over-the-top weddings on any network sitcom/soap opera. The second, as I mentioned, is the over-emphasis on making the televised events into grandiose spectacles; this creates the "ratings bump" phenomenon that we've been stuck in since the fall of WCW (and probably before), which in addition to causing #1 above, is a self-perpetuating cycle: ratings decline, special even bumps rating among casual viewers, raitngs decline to "core" levels, event-bump, repeat. This also is what keeps newer promotions from gaining televised footholds, as their production levels can't hope to grab the casual viewer (I haven't watched any TNA Impact, so I can't comment on that); had WCW not had the full backing of Time-Warner, they never would have been able to break out of whatever ratings level they had when they were just the NWA. More than anything else, THIS is Vince McMahon Jr's legacy on the sport/business, and it has changed it irrevocably, for better and/or worse. Finally, the "core" audience has been handed the ultimate insult of late: they're being taken for granted. I took the last PPV price increase personally; now we make sure that the card looks promising before we go ahead and order it. And two full-price PPVs a month? Sorry, not in our house; one show will lose. Last time it was SmackDown and the Bash, in October we'll see which roster has the most potential (although the fact that the RAW PPV will be on a Tuesday isn't helping their cause on this one). Unfortunately, from a business standpoint, luring in casual viewers on a temporary basis has been "good enough" in recent years. And the WWE is certainly not the only corporation that considers "good enough" to be good enough; they're not trying to win new fans because quite frankly they don't believe that they need them. And they could be right. The day I stop watching is the day someone posts a "ZERO MATCHES?!" thread, which I don't expect any time soon... and even then it would probably take a month of that to break me of the habit. :-\ |
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Post by Like Watching Paint Dry on Aug 27, 2004 19:06:26 GMT -5
"The "core" audience, as I have described it here, has been ignored in several ways. One, obviously, is the over-emphasis on SE instead of wrestling; I recognize SE's role in making things interesting, but if it's not paid off in the ring, then it's a waste of time IMO -- I can watch over-the-top weddings on any network sitcom/soap opera." The thing to remember is Vince has 52 weeks of television to fill...non-stop...every week..conceivably for the life of his show. If you think about it and compare it to most other forms of television, the schedule is just insane. There has to be a built in delay to storylines in order to work around the PPV's and still hotshot ratings. Vince tends to run 2 and 3 shot programs with his main eventers (HHH/HBK, Eddy/JBL) to give more of a build and eventually there is a payoff (albeit with delays) for the major programs. Other times (due to being a live ratings driven show) it's understandable when something that 'isn't working' is killed outright. While it can be frustrating, I can see 'why' it happens. "The second, as I mentioned, is the over-emphasis on making the televised events into grandiose spectacles; this creates the "ratings bump" phenomenon that we've been stuck in since the fall of WCW (and probably before), which in addition to causing #1 above, is a self-perpetuating cycle: ratings decline, special even bumps rating among casual viewers, raitngs decline to "core" levels, event-bump, repeat." Hotshoting of angles will always be a part of WWE television due to the fact that the shows in and of itself is now a key revenue source. The importance of various 'sweeps' periods (months of May & November) will always be effected in this way, even if it creates weird illogical booking formats. This May in fact concentrated very hard on wrestling content as it's focus (with very disappointing results). It was strange seeing Raw week in and week out get 'rave reviews' on the Internet, while ratings consistently hit the dumper (which shows the divide between Internet sentiment and ratings realities!). "This also is what keeps newer promotions from gaining televised footholds, as their production levels can't hope to grab the casual viewer" Agreed that WWE's production standards are top notch and very difficult to compete with. It does tend to give a 'cheap imitation' label to those playing catch up. I'd add the biggest obstacle to competition in pro wrestling is a lack of demand and viability with-in it's past structure. It's a case of video killing the radio star, with time killing a long established format. The old local television into house show revenue scheme no longer is viable due to astronomical costs (insurance, venues, talent, misc). The NWA TNA straight to PPV formula has been a total failure. Residual sales with periodic house shows and profits through residual sales (videos/DVDs) only work on a small scale/sporadic basis. I highly doubt the day will come anytime in the near future when a start up company finds a way to run profitably operating full time. I'll go so far as to say I doubt it will ever happen in my lifetime....and I plan to be around for quite a few decades! "Finally, the "core" audience has been handed the ultimate insult of late: they're being taken for granted. I took the last PPV price increase personally; now we make sure that the card looks promising before we go ahead and order it. And two full-price PPVs a month? Sorry, not in our house; one show will lose. Last time it was SmackDown and the Bash, in October we'll see which roster has the most potential (although the fact that the RAW PPV will be on a Tuesday isn't helping their cause on this one)." I don't know if it necessary is a matter of being taken for granted. Price increases happen with all products periodically. The recent experiment in June (with 3 PPV's in a 6 week period) was a financial success. Buys were over 200,000 for every show, meaning 7 figure profits after all expenses. That was with the weak Eddy/JBL program being 2 shotted. Not too shabby in a down period for business! "Unfortunately, from a business standpoint, luring in casual viewers on a temporary basis has been "good enough" in recent years. And the WWE is certainly not the only corporation that considers "good enough" to be good enough; they're not trying to win new fans because quite frankly they don't believe that they need them" I think Vince has worked very hard to gain new fans. From the pushing of new younger talent (Orton, Batista, Cena, Dupree) to crossover attempts like the Diva Search, Tough Enough, various music initiatives, plans for WWE Stars in Movie Vehicles, Smackdown Your Vote Campaign, Support the troops show in Iraq, yadda, yadda, yadda. The attempts are being made. I can understand not enjoying how the attempts are executed in practice or preferring other types of initiatives, but I can't see denying that such attempts are being made. "The day I stop watching is the day someone posts a "ZERO MATCHES?!" thread, which I don't expect any time soon... and even then it would probably take a month of that to break me of the habit." I'm the same way. For me WWE is like my local sports teams...something I'll support until the day I or it dies! Hopefully neither day is coming soon!  : |
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Post by Chris Ingersoll on Aug 28, 2004 8:15:38 GMT -5
The thing to remember is Vince has 52 weeks of television to fill...non-stop...every week..conceivably for the life of his show. If you think about it and compare it to most other forms of television, the schedule is just insane. Oh unquestionably; this is one of the reasons we like the show(s) -- it's always new (even if it isn't always good). However, it's not like he doesn't have the manpower to fill that time, both in front of and behind the cameras. Even allowing for the usual amounts of recaps, replays, and hype, there could still be a couple of more matches per show to get some of that talent air time (and gain experience). I understand that, but if the product declines while the price increases, savvy consumers take notice. Paying $35 for a 3-hour PPV that really only lasts 2:30 is more chicanery, although in my particular case I can't complain about that since our cable company gives us the immediate replay for free with the original purchase, so we really get ~6 hours, even if we don't watch it all. Squeezing two more PPVs in during the year when they don't properly utilize the time that we've previously accepted, however, is taking us for granted. I was under the impression that the GAB had a horrendous buyrate, but I wasn't paying much attention to it's performance so I'll move on. I think you're confusing viewers with fans again, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here. This could also finally be a realization that his main event scene has been stagnant for some time (HHH, UT, HBK, Angle; Benoit and Eddy aren't exactly "young" talents either). . In order, but skipping the music thing: a morale-crushing (for the other women, many of whom work their asses off for maybe half of what the bubblehead who wins this will get) waste of time that at best will provide some useless eye-candy, a neat (if flagrantly industry-exposing, even today) concept that hasn't had the results it really should have,potential disaster written all over it (not everyone is the Rock), politcal pandering, and jingoistic patriotic pandering. I won't deny that each one of these has its merits (with the possible exception of the Diva Search), but I don't see them winning any new fans. For example, I would expect that the majority of the audience for both Tough Enough and any movies featuring WWE stars would be 99% wrestling fans in the first place. As far as the two politcal PR campaigns are concerned, the SDYV is aimed at the existing fans, not new ones, and the troop shows are just the latest version of the long-standing tradition of flag-waving that has been present in wrestling for ages. Quite frankly, I would be more impressed by troop shows if there wasn't a very high-profile military action going on at the moment. As far as the music is concerned, that's a mixed bag. I think it actually helps the artists gain new fans more than it brings in more fans to wrestling. I know we bought CDs from Evanescence and Tatu partially based on hearing their music on WWE programs. Rock-and-Wrestling this is not (thankfully). |
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Post by Like Watching Paint Dry on Aug 28, 2004 12:58:53 GMT -5
"I was under the impression that the GAB had a horrendous buyrate, but I wasn't paying much attention to it's performance so I'll move on." Below is a link to the 3 PPV in 6 weeks experiment, including the recent Vengeance: www.wrestlingdotcom.com/news/94084715.phpYou'll see labeling of the 205k buy Judgement Day listed as 'horrible' which is strange given the fact that it made several million dollars profit. The GAB (Eddy/JBL rematch) actually outperformed Vengeance (HHH/Benoit) in terms of buys. Granted the total number of buys is lower than it has been in recent years, but also take into account the price of the PPV's is also higher than those it's being compared with. While certainly the number of buys could be higher (and expectations should be to meet or exceed past numbers), had I not known better, the labeling of the financials of any event as 'horrible'' or 'horrendous' would lead me to believe it lost money, which in point of fact is far from the case! "I think you're confusing viewers with fans again, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here." Consider this, the gaining of new fans is part of a process. In simplistic terms we have a generic person who has zero interest - who then through something like say the Diva search becomes a viewer - a certain number of said people enjoy enough aspects of the show that they eventually identify themselves as fans - which ideally leads to said 'zero interest' person becoming a paying customer of the product. Vince is making the effort to gain new fans in this respect, even if the results fail to turn said target audience into nothing more than drop-off viewers. Granted, the type of 'zero interest' person who accidentally stumbles across and is immediately hooked upon wrestling matches outright is the best candidate for becoming a 'paying customer'. Yet these other approaches are important and tend to have a broader net audience to work with. In reality, the fact that the show is out there 'as is' enables chances for attracting both, even if they have different probabilities of succeeding long term. "This could also finally be a realization that his main event scene has been stagnant for some time (HHH, UT, HBK, Angle; Benoit and Eddy aren't exactly "young" talents either)." Agreed. Yet if you compare the average age on the WWE roster to that of even say just five years ago,(not to even mention 10-15 years ago) you'll see there has been a marked youth movement. Keeping things fresh at both the top and in the middle of the card is a good element in terms of stimulating the interest of new and existing fans alike. "In order, but skipping the music thing: a morale-crushing (for the other women, many of whom work their asses off for maybe half of what the bubblehead who wins this will get) waste of time that at best will provide some useless eye-candy, a neat (if flagrantly industry-exposing, even today) concept that hasn't had the results it really should have,potential disaster written all over it (not everyone is the Rock), political pandering, and jingoistic patriotic pandering." Not to debate 'reactions' to these projects, but I tend to enjoy many of these initiatives and view them in a much more positive light. I'll just leave it at that. |
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Post by Nemecys on Aug 28, 2004 16:19:15 GMT -5
These are just my opinions. I accept that Vince pays attention to buyrates and will do just about anything for $. However I see things from a wrestling fan standpoint.
I love the wrestling itself. True you need the storylines and angles to keep people interested, but the markee is Wrestling. I kept flipping back and forth on and off RAW wondering who in their right mind made this so long. Then The Rock came out and I thought the day was saved...until he went on for another 10 minutes. For the first time in years, I wanted to boo Rocky. I was So wishing Austin were still there. He'd run out, stun a few people, and still it'd be more enjoyable. Now I'm not for beating up women but that would have been much more entertaining to me.
I like Edge vs. Jericho but hated flair and Regal.
Hated the wedding. Hate Kane. Hate Lita. Missed my man, Batista destroying people.
Loved the Orton angle.
Oh yeah, are WCW writers working for WWE? I noticed for the past few month's they're using a WCW technique of returning from a commercial, talking for 2 minutes, then going back to a commercial. Talk about annoying!
If you're going to do 2 matches, do them right like Benoit/Thiple H and the battle royal from a month ago. I don't care about buy rates. I want to see wrestling! I know this isn't from a business perspective but it's my opinion.
Thank God for COTG and Tom!
Jay
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Post by TheOtherTravis on Aug 30, 2004 22:12:21 GMT -5
All I've got to say is WOW!!!!  WWE more than made up for only two matches last week, and now I'm really digging the wedding angle. Lita going one up on Kane. And I enjoyed every match tonight. Every single one. I don't think that's happened in a long time. Raw tonight is the main reason why it will take a lot to make me stop watching WWE, and I don't think that they'll ever pull that off. ;D ~Travis |
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Post by Chris Ingersoll on Aug 31, 2004 9:26:49 GMT -5
All I've got to say is WOW!!!! WWE more than made up for only two matches last week, and now I'm really digging the wedding angle. Lita going one up on Kane. And I enjoyed every match tonight. Every single one. I don't think that's happened in a long time. Raw tonight is the main reason why it will take a lot to make me stop watching WWE, and I don't think that they'll ever pull that off. ;D Yeah, funny things like that happen when the previous week sets the bar so low, huh? ;D |
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Post by Vidtek on Aug 31, 2004 10:53:00 GMT -5
OK, this weeks Raw was better. Who knew that those gals in the Diva search could talk like that.? I love it when prety women cuss! Anyway, the matches tonight were a better quality, if only because there was more of them and at least one didn't involve Evolution. Still woundering why Regal even gets in the ring anymore. I finally figured out why Bisch hates Eugene so much, Eugene stoll his "act like an air plane" entrance rutine. Orton seems to be taking to his new roll well. CHRISTIAN?! And finally check out my last post on this topic to see me calling the Shawn Michaells ad Unforgivin thing a week in advance! Gary Spivey eat your heart out! Keep on rollin', dice that is! |
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Post by TheOtherTravis on Aug 31, 2004 10:58:02 GMT -5
Good to see him back. I've always enjoyed his matches. As far as the Divas, and this is not saying anything negative about them, that's the one segment I didn't actually watch. And, yeah, not being thrilled with the previous week amplified my pleasure while watching Raw this week. I can live with the occasional weeks like last, so long as they continue churning out weeks like this as well. ;D ~Travis |
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Post by sickman on Aug 31, 2004 13:40:52 GMT -5
Is everyone ready for Edge and Christian to reunite?
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Post by Graymar on Aug 31, 2004 13:42:35 GMT -5
That's not happened yet. I look for Y2J to face Christian at the PPV as a sub for the injured Edge. Maybe it will happen a little later.
Graymar
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Post by gamtime247 on Oct 26, 2004 11:40:59 GMT -5
Didn't take them long to bring us another action packed raw full of I think 4 matches. I don't mind the storylines sometimes but a match every half hour is kind of getting old. I've stuck by the product for a long time and most the time just look at this as another down period but this seems to be a constant now. I'm all for the angles and stuff but I think they gotta do something about it always bein the focus of the show. Guys are relegated to Heat and other B League shows so we get to see 3 guys talk in the locker room for 20 minutes. If I wanted hour or two hour long shows with just angles I'd start tivoing General Hospital. Thank God GTA came out last night to at least give me some sort of distraction.  |
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Post by thefamoustommyz on Oct 26, 2004 15:35:40 GMT -5
I'm torn on last night's Raw.
On one hand, my main problem is that two of the matches were just PPV rematches. Admittedly, I do this in CotG all the time, but I am my only audience...=P
At least they gave something resembling a viable reason for the Orton-Flair rematch.
I enjoyed the show, just not the wrestling. I love Benjamin and Jericho, but as faces wrestling, they don't click. Snitsky-Regal was nothing, but I did see the point. I actually enjoyed Maven and Batista. In fact, for some reason, Batista is REALLY growing on me...great facial expressions last night. I get no joy out of watching Flair anymore. It's just sad. And Orton...he's too smarmy to be the Top Face...I like the Jericho-Benoit union much better.
That said...I LOVED the faces taking matters into their own hands last night...that just ruled it...and Edge and HBK delivered some fantastic promos as well...
So, while it was a good show, IMHO, something just didn't "click"...like them not addressing the Benoit-Edge title situation...(Jericho/Benoit as tag champs? Who'll they feud with?)...
I dunno...I didn't feel ripped off, because I thought the night's storyline delivered, though.
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Post by gamtime247 on Oct 27, 2004 9:17:48 GMT -5
Yeah I wish they would bring jericho and benoit back as a team I really liked them in their feud with Austin when HHH got hurt. I definately see promise in guys like Benjamin and Batista I just think sometimes they are so scared of giving these guys too much ring time they just decide to fill it up with talking. Maven is up and down I think, sometimes I look at him and think he's got potential other times it looks as almost he has no reason to be there. I really liked Orton as a heel and for some reason I think he should have surplanted HHH as the lead heel because maybe I'm wrong or the only one who feels like it, but he just doesn't seem to me to be that 1 guy in terms of being a face. Its almost like they portray him to be the modern day Rock in his spot and everything but I just seem them differently for some reason.
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