CPC Art

[dennish]

I like Su's work on the CPC sets, and he brings that something to each new edition. But, I would have loved to see more work from Jeff Diamond in the CPC. I know Jeff was real busy when he left the ranks of Filsinger Game Artists. Overall I think Su has done a solid job with the CPC game cards.

[gwffantrav]

I hate to criticize anyones art-, but Jeff's art just was "missing something". Maybe it was the weird inking or stiffy kind of poses. Nothing special.

But hey, at least the guy has some COTG love and I do appreciate that! I thought it was a breath of fresh air when Su took over Bendis!

[Tournament Master]

I personally prefer Jeff Diamond over Jeremy Su, but then again I may be biased since Jeff did the art for Cardinal Sin (one of my creations).

Overall I think that Jeremy su's work has gotten worse and worse each set. He can do some of the non-humans well, but CPC is mostly humunoid (not in the Bobby Heenan sense). The latest set had too much shading and many of the drawing I flat out didn't like.

Not that I could do any better of course, but I do buy the cards and use them, so I feel I am entitled to an opinion on the look of the set. I would like to see a new artist take over CPC 2121. I think that Werner Mueck would be an interesting choice, and if he is given some time could flush out some new dimensions to some favorite characters. But then again I am biased towards Werner, so you can take that with a grain of salt.

[Eric Konecne]

I agree with Todd. Su's stuff isn't getting much better IMO. I have had Werner do work for me, and love what he's done for others. I think he'd be a good candidate to do CPC stuff. He really defines characters well and has a sense of Carter work of old which is a good thing.

[GalactiKing]

I think Jeremy works better with aCe and someone else can take CPC over.

[dennish]

I agree, Werner Mueck has done some great work for me over the many past years. He would be a great addition to the CPC and Mark and Tom should really think about using him on the next CPC set.

[DBaron]

I disgree with who ever thinks Diamonds work is better than Su's. HAVE YOU REALLY LOOKED AT THE ART WORK DIAMOND PUT OUT, OUCH.

[Tournament Master]

Finiahed reading the chapter on artists in the Dark Menace book and didn't realize some of the GWF guys that Jeremy has done. That being said I think that Jeremy's talents are best used in aCe and select GWF characters, and the CPC should be done by a newcomer starting in 2121. Looks like others would agree that Werner should be given a shot. If nothing else, perhaps Werner could get a tryout in the Galacticon Promoter set that has been talked about in other forums.

[swarm]

I think Mark just needs to come up with a few more ideas for the drawings...maybe if he told Jeremy to draw Zed (for example) with a shaved head, some earrings, some tatoos or some cool outfit or something he would look cooler.

Jeremy did a great job with hanuman and he's the only guy in the new set wearing anyhting really...

Mark has admitted he is more about the stories than the drawings...and i know some artists need "direction" especially when it comes to drawing futuristic wrestlers.

[Werner Mueck]

I really appreciate everyone's vote of confidence, and if it weren't so early in the morning and I wasn't in a hurry, I'd write a longer post. Thanks again, maybe it's time to bug Tom again .

[Jeff Diamond]

First, I appreciate the comments, critical and complimentary. I try to use the message boards to get a better grip on what everyone likes and doesn't like. It makes me a better artist and makes the art come to life more --in a manner of speaking.

Having said that, there is something that needs to be addressed --and this goes for opinions about all of the other artists too: Ultimately we have NO control over what gets used for the card art.

For example, most of my original sketches and inked drawings have a lot of detail. But much of it gets edited out due to the limitations of the *very basic* line-art type of printing that was used on those B&W cards, or the orientation of the card cuts off the wrestler's body and thus some details. I can tell you for a fact that a lot of my art was chopped down because of the way the card was positioned (either horizontal or vertical). This is of particular importance because I always draw what I'm asked to draw, and sometimes that indicates a horizontal alignment --but guess what? It gets printed the regular (vertical) way and it's goodbye to all those tasty details.

Like I've posted before, go to my website and look at my B&W and color stuff. www.orbit-rpg.com

I can't speak for Su, or anyone else, but if I could've submitted my art digitally to be printed you'd have seen something about 100% better.

JsD

[Jeff Diamond]

P.S.

I think Werner Meuck's art ROCKS. He is an awesome talent and has a very organic style. It really flows well. I would like to see a GWF or CPC set done by him, either would be great.

[thefamoustommyz]

Personally, Talon's 2115 pic aside, I liked most of your art, Jeff...

As for Jeremy, I think a VERY valid point is being made here, because his GWF stuff is generally GREAT...but his CPC stuff is generally...not. His aCe stuff was pretty much the closest to the middle ground...since, while the art itself was generally very good, he seemed to really mix up the Ravagers and the Tribesmen, as I think they all look a lot alike in the aCe set (Nicodemus and Paganax aside).

[Werner Mueck]

Thanks Jeff, stuff like your P.S. and this thread keeps me going in the bootleg scene (along with the fact that most of the people I draw for turn into friends who I keep in contact with). Just hit your link and I'm checking out your stuff. I'm really impressed by it and when I update my gallery site soon, I'll link you if you're ok with that.

And you're right, you try and do what your told and hope for the best. You hope that too much of the picture isn't cropped or obscured or warped. Sometimes you have other artists working with you who take shortcuts or don't mesh with your style. I did a comic once and the inker inked my scanned pencil lines with the fill tool. It didn't look good at all (not that I was too pleased with the pencils) and my skill came under question because of it with people reading the book. Then again, sometimes we make mistakes. Every so often, even a George Perez face has a wonky eyeline.

It's good to take the criticism and go with it (a bad comment for Early Classics was that my art for the set was somewhat boring so I've been trying to be more dynamic with bootlegs). We either dismiss the comment as trivial (which doesn't happen a lot) or we agree and work on it to make it better. Sometimes our style doesn't mesh with the project or sometimes it's one of the only styles that could have made the project work. Sometimes it's hit and miss and you hope for a high average.

And about submitting digitally, people butcher scans just as easy as the originals (see comment above about fill tool inking). But ultimately, Tom and Mark have the stroke (bad Jarrett reference) and they decide what goes on and Tom's the best guy I've ever seen when it comes to fan relations. Maybe they'll read this post and get some ideas.....

[Jeff Diamond]

Thanks guys.

And Werner, thanks for the link --I'll do likewise.
Email me.

[Tournament Master]

wernermueck said:

But ultimately, Tom and Mark have the stroke (bad Jarrett reference) and they decide what goes on and Tom's the best guy I've ever seen when it comes to fan relations. Maybe they'll read this post and get some ideas.....

I doubt that Tom would read this because it is in the CPC forum. And since the CPC is the lesser fed... (Sorry Mark)

[dennish]

Another thought I had was a combo art team on the next set, Jeff Diamond and Werner Mueck. Each one would do 6 characters, it would be nice to see two sides of the bootleg artists in one set. I know the CPC has not been around long, but another artist change is needed and I would like to see Jeff and Werner have a shot at drawing CPC characters for a spell.

[Guest]

I would love to see Werner Mueck do official COTG Art especially in the CPC. I think he would be perfect for the CPC

Jeff Diamond is great and would love to see some more from him

Mark Taggart would also be great to do some Legends Art for the Legends Sets

Here is an idea

How about let these guys wok on the proposed special set for Galacticon next year where if you attend Galacticon you get a chance to create an official wrestler for a possible classic like set

[pravusdeus]

In all honesty there are really two questions here ...

#1 - Which artist wants to tackle my dream team of Dark Moon .... think Hardy Boys, mixed with titans. I had a sweet drawing with both characters on one picture and no one has ever come close to creating something as awesome as this drawing (Ill try and upload it again but Keith Vella has seen it)

#2 - The second question is to Mark and do you need a stellar tag team for CPC lo?

... backstory ... if you guys don't know about this team, let's just out of all my creations these guys we're my all time favorite, I am even considering adding them to my actual federations at this time (I hate Stars & Stripes lol). Almost every level 3 move is a tag move. Somehow I did there stats just right and in there only match against official GWF opponents ... they battled for like 20 minutes with Dreggs & Sleeze in an awesome match.

Ok ... this is totally off topic now lol
I agree about the art ... its missing something. Some drawings are awesome and then some are bad. Too up and down, though I guess you have to have that.

[JSDiamond]

Send me a scan and I'll take that challenge!