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Post by LWPD on Jan 9, 2007 19:10:46 GMT -5
From what I've seen COTG Online looks intriguing and I imagine it can only serve to benefit the existing product line by giving people more choices. I read about a Stat Tracker (which sounds absolutely great) and the Game Area (which I hope will be open ended in terms of 'scope' and 'features'). If 'done right' the promise here is huge and I'd label what I've read so far a good start.
To that end here are some questions and considerations regarding the project. Hopefully my comments will help to spark a good exchange of ideas and opinions on what can be done going forward to help to make COTG Online the best possible product it can be before it's actual release:
1. I read that all 'official' charts and specialty matches will be implemented into the system which is obviously a most welcome game play necessity...however the reality is a great deal of us like to create our own charts, rules and perhaps most popular of all...develop 'bootleg characters'. Recognizing and accommodating this very natural component of COTG game play will no doubt be essential to giving this product it's broadest base of long term appeal...especially in terms of attracting and then 'sustaining' the interest of players old and new alike. After all most every video game on the market today recognize this natural 'need to customize' inclination and include some form of 'Create A Character' mode.
A very big reason 'why' COTG has been successful over the years is that Tom created a simple yet richly attractive gaming formula which allows players to bring forth 'their own' imagination and achieve an 'individuated' playing experience (ie. 'It's your Fed Promoter'). That said will this system accommodate the insertion of 'player inputed/manipulable' variables? To what extent will COTG Online accommodate these game play elements by allowing for the real time 'tweaking' of standardized charts (such as expanding upon the variable with-in a roll outcome) and allow for the insertion of various 'player created' content?
2. How much of COTG is actually going 'online'?: With the placing of official COTG card art and stats onto the Internet...will the accompanying edition guidebooks also be digitized and made available for purchase? How about GWF Files or other print material? If so what format can I expect as a potential consumer (PDF, Comix, something else)? Once the system goes 'live' how much of the COTG Library can be expected to be made immediately available in the form of a 'character card collection'? How frequent can one expect new library additions?
3. With the coming of COTG Online...what exactly will one be purchasing? Along with access to The Game Area and Stat Tracker are consumers purchasing access to characters on an individual card basis (SE cards) the stats of full 'game years' or the option for both? Will access to the online system exist as a 'stand alone' purchase option with incentives built in to make it communally appealing as an end in itself?
Thanks in advance for any and all insights.
LWPD (in theory COTG Online is an exciting new concept that holds forth a great deal of promise...I'm hoping that the finished product will be dynamically adaptable to the game play preferences of as many individual 'Promoters' as is possible and practical)
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Post by BDS on Jan 9, 2007 19:44:13 GMT -5
1. I read that all 'official' charts and specialty matches will be implemented into the system which is obviously a most welcome game play necessity...however the reality is a great deal of us like to create our own charts, rules and perhaps most popular of all...develop 'bootleg characters'. Recognizing and accommodating this very natural component of COTG game play will no doubt be essential to giving this product it's broadest base of long term appeal...especially in terms of attracting and then 'sustaining' the interest of players old and new alike. After all most every video game on the market today recognize this natural 'need to customize' inclination and include some form of 'Create A Character' mode. A very big reason 'why' COTG has been successful over the years is that Tom created a simple yet richly attractive gaming formula which allows players to bring forth 'their own' imagination and achieve an 'individuated' playing experience (ie. 'It's your Fed Promoter'). That said will this system accommodate the insertion of 'player inputed/manipulable' variables? To what extent will COTG Online accommodate these game play elements by allowing for the real time 'tweaking' of standardized charts (such as expanding upon the variable with-in a roll outcome) and allow for the insertion of various 'player created' content? Player created charts, special matches, house rules and so on will be fully supported and compatible with COTGonline. One of the key concepts that's being kept in mind with everything - both in the game itself and in the Stat Tracker - is giving the promoter as much freedom to run their own fed their way as possible. The touchy part comes with bootlegs. At launch, you won't be able to add in your own characters. The reasoning behind this, of course, is to keep someone from adding in Bloodline without purchasing the appropriate set. We could put in filters for name or something like that, but there's nothing stopping someone from just calling the character "Lineage" and changing the move names. It's something that would either need constant human supervision (with the assitance of some watchful system-generated flags) or more development time than it would probably be worth for the launch. 2. How much of COTG is actually going 'online'?: With the placing of official COTG card art and stats onto the Internet...will the accompanying edition guidebooks also be digitized and made available for purchase? Yes, most definitely. How about GWF Files or other print material? I'll let Kris handle this one. If so what format can I expect as a potential consumer (PDF, Comix, something else)? PDF. It's the most widely accessible format right now and will be the easiest for everyone involved. Once the system goes 'live' how much of the COTG Library can be expected to be made immediately available in the form of a 'character card collection'? The aCe Trilogy (2119-2121) wlll be available at launch time, with aCe 2121 being the first digital-only release. GWF 2119-2121 will follow shortly thereafter. How frequent can one expect new library additions? An excellent question, one to which I have no answer beyond idle speculation. If pressed, I'd speculate that there's probably a correlation between the success of the product and the speed of new releases. This is another one that's probably best left to Kris for a real answer, though. 3. With the coming of COTG Online...what exactly will one be purchasing? Along with access to The Game Area and Stat Tracker are consumers purchasing access to characters on an individual card basis (SE cards) the stats of full 'game years' or the option for both? Please keep in mind that any and all talk about pricing is subject to considerable change before everything goes live. Having said that, the last thing I heard is that cards would be available in bundled sets. You won't buy aCe 2121, for example, you'll buy the aCe Trilogy. Will access to the online system exist as a 'stand alone' purchase option with incentives built in to make it communally appealing as an end in itself? Absolutely. One of the goals of COTGonline is to draw in people from outside the current fanbase. As such, Kris wants it to be accessible to someone who's never even seen the cards and dice as well as to current promoters. It's got to be its own self-sufficient product to reach that goal. Thanks in advance for any and all insights. You are most very welcome! |
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Post by krisosk on Jan 9, 2007 21:54:38 GMT -5
How about GWF Files or other print material? My goal is to eventually have the GWF Files in digital format. I don't think I need to get into the wide array of possibilites of being able to click on a characters name in COTGonline and see either their stats in YOUR fed, their GLOBAL stats, and/or their GWF Files profile page. We'd also obviously be able to keep an "up to the current edition" watch on all characters as well as an "up to the current Promoter" watch on all Title histories. Speaking of which, I'd also like to see a version of the COTGonline Promoter at some point. Tom,Todd and John Krause have also expressed interest in this possiblity. Did I mention some of the fun things this product will allow us to do? Like holding Awards Ceremonies (in written story form) for Global Statistics, creating a COTGonline Hall-of-Fame, and the potential of Online Fantasy Federations? Keep thinking and suggesting...keep thinking and suggesting. ~ :-Xsk |
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Post by Vidtek on Jan 9, 2007 22:01:28 GMT -5
My biggest question and/or concern is...what if I don't want to buy COTG Online? I know that might be a blasphemous statement, but I'm serious. I was looking forward to getting aCe 2121, but now it looks like I won't/can't if I don't get Online. So what happens if I don't want to? I would still want aCe 2121 in print on cardstock. Just me speaking here, your mileage may very.
Big Time
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Post by Wildfire on Jan 9, 2007 22:04:56 GMT -5
I think if the price point is reasonable and you get a PDF, there's no real reason to offer the printed cards separately.
However, if the price point is signifigantly higher than the price of an edition (say $25 as compared to $12) then maybe we can have the option?
just my .02
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Post by krisosk on Jan 9, 2007 22:10:40 GMT -5
Well you certainly don't have to do anything you don't want to...
Unfortunately, being that aCe 2121 is exclusively available on COTGonline, that would be the only way to get it (in both digital and/or printable format).
Everything else EXCEPT this edition will still be available in traditional format.
The fact that aCe 2121 is exclusive to Online is as simple as this:
1. It acts as an incentive for people to try COTGonline
and
2. It's not profitable for Filsinger Games to print this set.
Going digital on editions like aCe 2121 allow the federation to "live on," also, the saving of funds allows this edition to have TWELVE characters as opposed to the standard EIGHT.
Federations like the CPC will certainly benefit from going digital...as will any other projects that might have not been produced due to budgetary contstraints. Some that come to mind are the POW Set, the GWFZ set, etc.
Hopefully that answers your question.
~ :-Xsk
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Post by Vidtek on Jan 9, 2007 22:15:06 GMT -5
It does a bit Kris, but until I see a $ I'll keep myself sceptical.
Big Time
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Post by JimSteel on Jan 9, 2007 22:32:09 GMT -5
Interesting concept
I am not crazy about the new aCe Set only being available online
I will get it whebn it does get released
The main problem could come from people that do not own a computer and are not online but want the set(s)
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Post by GalactiKing on Jan 9, 2007 22:51:30 GMT -5
Also really hurts the younger fan base. Still best of hopes for the project. I don't know if I'll get it (My wife will want it but cost is going to be a major factor)
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Post by krisosk on Jan 10, 2007 0:08:55 GMT -5
Also really hurts the younger fan base. I have no idea how you came to this conclusion. If COTGonline does ANYTHING at all, it enhances the possibility of expanding the audience. Especially to 'younger fans' as kids of todays generation are much more apt to play a comupter game than an 80's style paper and dice game. If you mean younger fans who already play the game, I'd have to disagree again. Younger fans who started playing Champions more recently than most of us are more likely to try an expansive new computer version than to be stubbornly attached to the traditional style of playing like some of the older fans. ~ :-Xsk |
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Post by gatekeeper on Jan 10, 2007 0:34:55 GMT -5
Also really hurts the younger fan base. I have no idea how you came to this conclusion. If COTGonline does ANYTHING at all, it enhances the possibility of expanding the audience. Especially to 'younger fans' as kids of todays generation are much more apt to play a comupter game than an 80's style paper and dice game. If you mean younger fans who already play the game, I'd have to disagree again. Younger fans who started playing Champions more recently than most of us are more likely to try an expansive new computer version than to be stubbornly attached to the traditional style of playing like some of the older fans. ~ :-Xsk I agree with Kris here. The younger generation will be all over the online version. |
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Post by dbfnq on Jan 10, 2007 7:02:56 GMT -5
Yeah, I'd say this is much more attractive to the new gamer than the veteran. Existing players aren't going to be as keen to buy their whole collection again, and 'no bootlegs' will be a dealbreaker for some.
Being somewhere in between, I expect what I'll do is keep buying the GWF cards, maybe add in some CPC, and think about getting into COTGonline to run an aCe fed. Given the pound-to-dollar exchange rate, it's likely to be pretty inexpensive for me to give it a try.
On the subject of a printed aCe set not being profitable...have you thought about trying out a ransom model? It's something that's been used successfully for some RPGs recently, where all the work is done but the company doesn't have the capital to finance the print run. Basically, you get customers to pay when they preorder the set, and use that money to cover the printing costs. That way if there really is sufficient interest in aCe cards, they get printed, and if not everyone gets refunded.
That said, if buying the virtual cards will let you print them out yourself, it might be a non-issue.
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Post by LWPD on Jan 10, 2007 7:43:54 GMT -5
Thanks again BDS for the detailed response.
This is the part of the project that appeals to me the most. In addition to saving time....if the system is customizable it's as good as gold.
I fully understand the inherent drawbacks and concerns with bootlegs...but I also think that online bootleg card creation and 'real time' play can offer one of the strongest appeals for people to use the system. One only needs to look at this board to see the appeal the genre has...including players who run and post Feds that are entirely player created. It's a very real way that many people play the game and ideally the system should accommodate that segment.
Perhaps a more conservatively run part of the Game Area could be set up strictly for bootlegs...one where there is a content 'approval' system set up going in (where a moderator approves/disapproves new submissions before they are playable in the system). While not perfect this could alleviate some of the potential problems while also making the system more broadly appealing. I'm sure one could get people from the community to 'volunteer' x amount of time a week to moderate the process free of charge (or in exchange for use of COTG Online). Just something worth considering.
LWPD (ideally I'd love to see the Classic sets eventually released so I could play out an entire GWF history using the features of COTG Online...good times ahead)
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Post by GalactiKing on Jan 10, 2007 9:28:37 GMT -5
How I came to the conclusion of it hurting the younger fan base is that they may not be able to afford it. Mind you, I know there are some parents who will buy their kids anything, but others (like mine when I was younger) said if you want it, you have to buy it.
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Post by banzuke on Jan 10, 2007 10:54:51 GMT -5
How about GWF Files or other print material? We'd also obviously be able to keep an "up to the current edition" watch on all characters as well as an "up to the current Promoter" watch on all Title histories. That's it, I gotta have this!! This is great, guys... I can't wait! |
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Post by kaz on Jan 10, 2007 11:43:13 GMT -5
Interesting concept I am not crazy about the new aCe Set only being available online I will get it whebn it does get released The main problem could come from people that do not own a computer and are not online but want the set(s) I don't want to be the voice of decent here, but I've been thinking about this too. I don't have internet at my home and if I did, it would only be 56K dialup. I don't see myself getting it in the near future. That makes it pretty hard to play an online version of CotG. Especially with an "online only" edition. Perhaps the set could be burnt to CD? I've created bootleg sets via PDF and it works fairly well. In fact that's how my next set will be released. That continues the "print it yourself" idea and satisifies the non-internet crowd. But, for a game and a gaming community I've been a part of for years, I'm kinda feeling left out in the cold here. Like Adamsmasher, I'm not so sure I want to buy this. I am glad to hear that the GWF editions will be cardstocked though. I guess I'm being lumped into the "older" or "Old School" generation. Bootlegging is a big, big appeal to me for this game. To lose that mechanic of the game to some colorful pixels bothers me. Sure most of us keep our results, our rankings, ect. on the CPU, but I like the ability to not sit in front of a computer or TV and enjoy something like CotG. Congratulations to Tom and Co. for this achievement, don't get me wrong. I'm just not so sure it's for me. This post was all over the place, but I've got some real mixed emotions about this whole thing. |
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Post by Tournament Master on Jan 10, 2007 12:20:13 GMT -5
First off, let me say that I am speaking only for myself, not on behalf of Kris or Tom (although they very well may agree with my thoughts, I'm not sure).
I'm sure that eventually the whole bootleg thing could be worked out. We realize that its a big part of the game, and I'm sure the team will address the issue in time. I believe the focus now is getting the functionality working and having people get used to the program itself.
I'm sure that the decision to go Online only for som editions won't work for all of the existing fans, but I believe its a good calculated risk on the part of Kris and Tom that the community of game fans will grow as a result of this. Maybe not in the short term, but certainly in the long term. The audience for a computer simulation is certianly much greater than the audience for cards and dice...especially amongst the younger game fans. There is the issue of price, but I think that is less of an issue to some online gamers, which this is looking to target.
I know there are some people who don't use computers at home or don't have a high-speed internet connection. Now I don't have complete demographics on the COTG community, but I would venture to say that the majority of people who would buy the traditional game have a high-speed internet service and would in therory be part of the market for it.
There are some people who will continue to just play the card and dice version, which the whole FG team fully expected, and thats why the most popular game lines (GWF and LOW) will still be released traditionally. The other lines (aCe and CPC) just make more sense economically to have Online. Tom wants to make everyone happy, but it is a business and he has to do right by the business first.
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Post by GOODZILLA on Jan 10, 2007 13:16:13 GMT -5
Hmmmmm .... so I would have to have a high speed internet connection to be able to play? Any other kind of software, like flash or anything like that? The dollar signs are starting to really add up on this.  |
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Post by BDS on Jan 10, 2007 13:20:07 GMT -5
Hmmmmm .... so I would have to have a high speed internet connection to be able to play? Any other kind of software, like flash or anything like that? The dollar signs are starting to really add up on this. High-speed won't be required. The only thing a high-speed connection will do is speed things up for you, primarily at start-up, but it won't be absolutely required. Adobe's Flash Player will be required on your browser, but Flash Player is free. (Flash Studio, which we need for development, not so much.) |
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Post by Tournament Master on Jan 10, 2007 13:27:17 GMT -5
Hmmmmm .... so I would have to have a high speed internet connection to be able to play? Any other kind of software, like flash or anything like that? The dollar signs are starting to really add up on this. Sorry, I didn't mean to make people think highspeed is neccessary to play, just stating that most people probably have high-speed internet these days at home. Thanks for the save there BDS. |
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