Benoit, Althusser, and Legacies

[swarm]

I understand the people who WANT to think we knew him...Chris, Hedge, Troy's wife etc...but we didn't. We never did.

The second you accept that fact is the second you will realize the "why" which, who gives a crap about anyways. He did it. It doesn't matter why.

[Wildfire]

swarm said:

I'm going to point something out no one else has but I have been thinking since day one....

We always hear about how the best wrestlers are the guys who are an amped up verison of themselves...be yourself and turn it up a notch is what they say...

well Chris Benoit the wrestler was quiet, aggressive, stiff, bad on the mic (hard time expressing himself) and very angry in the ring...

so maybe Chris Benoit in real life was quiet, aggresive, abusive, angry and bottled up in real life at home....

...and had no problem killing his wife and kid.

Chew on that.

That's a great point, but it does run a bit contrary to what people who did know him personally say. Maybe he was quiet enough so no one really knew him...

[Dragon Breath]

aquinas said:

swarm said:

Why? Because he had no problem watching his family die as he killed them.

My dog could figure that out.

He sat around for almost 2 days with his wife dead in the house. He sat around for almost a day with his little boy dead in the house.

I'm not even sure it was remorse that led him to hang himself. It could have been sheer cowardice for all we know.

We'll get more details on the Why....but it's obvious the man completely snapped.....and the odds are that this wasn't some short-term rage that caused it. Someone doesn't wake up and go ballistic.....the Chris Benoit people thought they knew clearly wasn't the real Chris Benoit.

Fantastic post.

I believe that the suicide was nothing more than cowardice...he didn't want to face the consequences of his actions. Otherwise how could he sit in his house for two days with his dead family?

[swarm]

wildfire said:

swarm said:

I'm going to point something out no one else has but I have been thinking since day one....

We always hear about how the best wrestlers are the guys who are an amped up verison of themselves...be yourself and turn it up a notch is what they say...

well Chris Benoit the wrestler was quiet, aggressive, stiff, bad on the mic (hard time expressing himself) and very angry in the ring...

so maybe Chris Benoit in real life was quiet, aggresive, abusive, angry and bottled up in real life at home....

...and had no problem killing his wife and kid.

Chew on that.

That's a great point, but it does run a bit contrary to what people who did know him personally say. Maybe he was quiet enough so no one really knew him...

That's the point. Even Chavo, his boy said Chris never let anyone "in"...always kept to himself...

well if I was absuing my wife, injecting my kid with illegal drugs, and was capable of constructing a double homicide I don't think I'd be too open about it either...

This really isn't too hard to "get".

[Hegemony]

swarm said:

I understand the people who WANT to think we knew him...Chris, Hedge, Troy's wife etc...but we didn't. We never did.

The second you accept that fact is the second you will realize the "why" which, who gives a crap about anyways. He did it. It doesn't matter why.

If you go back and read my posts it clearly states that we, as fans, never knew Chris Benoit teh human being. Only Benoit the public persona, in this case a wrestler.

Your post seems to support my original theory.

[swarm]

hegemony said:

swarm said:

I understand the people who WANT to think we knew him...Chris, Hedge, Troy's wife etc...but we didn't. We never did.

The second you accept that fact is the second you will realize the "why" which, who gives a crap about anyways. He did it. It doesn't matter why.

If you go back and read my posts it clearly states that we, as fans, never knew Chris Benoit teh human being. Only Benoit the public persona, in this case a wrestler.

Your post seems to support my original theory.

Great. So lets lock it up and talk about the Con and Online then and move on from this gorilla in the corner of the room...put this behind us and try to concentrate on the good things right now.

[Hegemony]

swarm said:

hegemony said:

If you go back and read my posts it clearly states that we, as fans, never knew Chris Benoit teh human being. Only Benoit the public persona, in this case a wrestler.

Your post seems to support my original theory.

Great. So lets lock it up and talk about the Con tand Online then.

Are you so incapable of self control that you need the thread to be locked in order to prevent yourself from posting in it?

[dukedave]

gatekeeper said:

This shouldn't even be a thread. We already have a Benoit thread. But whatever.

The weird thing is, and this shows how I spend too much time on here, I had a dream last night that I logged on to the computer and Payback had started a third Benoit thread.

[swarm]

hegemony said:

swarm said:

Great. So lets lock it up and talk about the Con and Online then.

Are you so incapable of self control that you need the thread to be locked in order to prevent yourself from posting in it?

Are so incapable of being a blowhard that you can't, for once, be a part of this community vs. a separate entity for the sole purpose of feeding your enormous ego and try to help this board move forward vs. backward?

I never said I needed anything...but we, as a whole, need to move on. Period. Just like when you sent me your PM character and he sucked balls so I gave him an added finisher, extra offense and better chart ratings, trying to help YOU (had I not your guy would have been the worst in the set and you know it), I'm trying the help this board by moving away from this crap and moving onto a more positive light.

[Hegemony]

swarm said:

hegemony said:

Are you so incapable of self control that you need the thread to be locked in order to prevent yourself from posting in it?

Are so incapable of being a blowhard that you can't, for once, be a part of this community vs. a separate entity for the sole purpose of feeding your enormous ego and try to help this board move forward vs. backward?

I never said I needed anything...but we, as a whole, need to move on. Period. Just like when you sent me your PM character and he sucked balls so I gave him an added finisher, extra offense and better chart ratings, trying to help YOU (had I not your guy would have been the worst in the set and you know it), I'm trying the help this board by moving away from this crap and moving onto a more positive light.

Sorry if you don't "get it" and have to insult me and my ability to control myself from clicking a button on a mouse to make yourself feel justified. No one ever agrees with you. You would think by now there is a [censored] reason for that.

It is pretty sad to see you resort to insulting a PM character in order to validate your own position on this debate, but if it makes you feel important than so be it. VEry topical and mature on your part, if I say so myself.

And as for the majority never agreeing with me, that does not automatically make me wrong or my positions less valid. These are debates that I think merit discussion, and if you don't agree than simply STOP POSTING in the thread. Simple.

As for the personal insults leveled by you and your buds in my direction, well, it is not my place to police this board. Suffice to say, I have never been banned from this board.

[dukedave]

hegemony said:

And as for the majority never agreeing with me, that does not automatically make me wrong or my positions less valid. These are debates that I think merit discussion, and if you don't agree than simply STOP POSTING in the thread. Simple.

I think the point is every time someone has something critical to say about you or Ingersoll you guys tell them to stop posting. If you want a thread with just opinions that matter to you just start a thread title "Those who agree with Hegmony post here". It would be so much simpler

[Hegemony]

dukedave said:

hegemony said:

And as for the majority never agreeing with me, that does not automatically make me wrong or my positions less valid. These are debates that I think merit discussion, and if you don't agree than simply STOP POSTING in the thread. Simple.

I think the point is every time someone has something critical to say about you or Ingersoll you guys tell them to stop posting. If you want a thread with just opinions that matter to you just start a thread title "Those who agree with Hegmony post here". It would be so much simpler

Because the thread is not about me or Chris Ingersoll. It is about the questions regarding Benoit, his recent actions, and the potential to distinguish between his public wreslting persona and hte person who murdered his family.

Why is this so difficult?

What I take offense to is not differing positions from my own, but personal attacks that have nothing to do with the question at hand.

[swarm]

My point is simply that you PM'd me in hopes your character would be "at least top 4" and I hooked you up because I cared. I love the character, so that is far from an insult.

I have said my peace and admit my mistakes by continuing to post on this stupid thread when I swore to myself I wouldn't.

This is no one's fault other than mine.

With that said, we are all adults here and I think I have done enough to prove my passion and care for this game, these people, this board and for what lies ahead.

So for whoever chooses to post here it's their business...you are right. But people seem to listen to me because I am genuine and because I do care so much I tried to help the board move on from this horrible tragedy and into a more positive light as we come up on GCON.

So have your thread. Do as you please with it. I'm going to concentrate on GCON, all the friends I will see there, you included, 2122, Online, the WWE and move on from this crap once and for all.

Some may come with me some may stay here and continue to be distracted and brought down by this garbage, and that's fine...

but I came here with hopes of turning the attention of this board away from this and I will not apologize for that.

Swarm = Care

Sorry to anyone who doesn't see it that way.

[Hegemony]

swarm said:

My point is simply that you PM'd me in hopes your character would be "at least top 4" and I hooked you up because I cared. I love the character, so that is far from an insult.

I have said my peace and admit my mistakes by continuing to post on this stupid thread when I swore to myself I wouldn't.

This is no one's fault other than mine.

With that said, we are all adults here and I think I have done enough to prove my passion and care for this game, these people, this board and for what lies ahead.

So for whoever chooses to post here it's their business...you are right. But people seem to listen to me because I am genuine and because I do care so much I tried to help the board move on from this horrible tragedy and into a more positive light as we come up on GCON.

So have your thread. Do as you please with it. I'm going to concentrate on GCON, all the friends I will see there, you included, 2122, Online, the WWE and move on from this crap once and for all.

Some may come with me some may stay here and continue to be distracted and brought down by this garbage, and that's fine...

but I came here with hopes of turning the attention of this board away from this and I will not apologize for that.

Swarm = Care

Sorry to anyone who doesn't see it that way.

You told me he was top four via PM, as I never expected him to be very strong. Check out my post from the PM Rumble for my inspiration on the character.

And I appreciate your work on the set and the help with my particular character, as you obviously improved him statistically from what I could do, which is what made it a potentially top-4 character stats wise.

The point is that this has NOTHING to do with anything and to bring it up is a sad and childish attempt to put me in my proverbial place. Kudos to you.

[Chris Ingersoll]

hegemony said:

What I take offense to is not differing positions from my own, but personal attacks that have nothing to do with the question at hand.

Exactly.

There are several examples in this thread of differing positions that didn't contain any personal attacks. They have been responded to in a polite, civilized manner with follow-up questions that seek further information and discussion. These follow-ups have not always been responded to, but we recognize that the questions are hard, the emotions tough to sift through, and that sometimes questions simply can't be answered.

On the other hand, "I don't want to discuss this" should be the last post a person makes on that subject. Yet it repeatedly is not, for whatever reason. When we remind people that they aren't being forced to read or respond to this thread, we are simply reminding them of what they themselves said.

[Chris Ingersoll]

swarm said:

I have said my peace and admit my mistakes by continuing to post on this stupid thread when I swore to myself I wouldn't.

This is no one's fault other than mine.

With that said, we are all adults here and I think I have done enough to prove my passion and care for this game, these people, this board and for what lies ahead.

So for whoever chooses to post here it's their business...you are right. But people seem to listen to me because I am genuine and because I do care so much I tried to help the board move on from this horrible tragedy and into a more positive light as we come up on GCON.

So have your thread. Do as you please with it. I'm going to concentrate on GCON, all the friends I will see there, you included, 2122, Online, the WWE and move on from this crap once and for all.

Some may come with me some may stay here and continue to be distracted and brought down by this garbage, and that's fine...

but I came here with hopes of turning the attention of this board away from this and I will not apologize for that.

Swarm = Care

Sorry to anyone who doesn't see it that way.

Outside of the PM bit (that I didn't quote), this is the most level-headed post I have ever seen from you. Well done.

[jefft]

Since basically all individuals in this type of case are pretty much unanimously remembered for being murderers first, I think the question that is central to this thread can best be answered that way. You now think of these people as murderers, not great wrestlers or football players. The latter is now the afterthought. No one can truly say for certain that their previous positive public and private accomplishments are totally invalidated, but they have certainly now been overshadowed due to commiting one of society's most terrible crimes. Making an argument contrary to the above borders on moral relativism...and I do not subscribe to that philosophy.

[gatekeeper]

admin said:

gatekeeper said:

This shouldn't even be a thread. We already have a Benoit thread.

admin said:

This thread should be more focused on generalities and theory than with the specific details of last weekend.

This makes no sense.

[gatekeeper]

dukedave said:

gatekeeper said:

This shouldn't even be a thread. We already have a Benoit thread. But whatever.

The weird thing is, and this shows how I spend too much time on here, I had a dream last night that I logged on to the computer and Payback had started a third Benoit thread.

That is so damn funny!

[tombraider]

yeah you do spend too much time here havoc.