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Post by Hegemony on Jun 28, 2007 17:01:16 GMT -5
Like it or not, these issues are being discussed in numerous places across the Internet, and I think they merit discussion here. To suggest that I am trying to simply raise the ire of other community members for my own amusement or am diminishing human life is either greatly ignoring the argument itself or accusing me of being a pretty wretched person. If you are accusing me of this then please address me via PM. I have no interest in discussing anything with you via PM. Then please refrain from accusing me of anything since you are grossly misunderstanding the point of this thread. |
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Post by Chris Ingersoll on Jun 28, 2007 19:55:36 GMT -5
However, you can't have it both ways. If the thread is worthy to be kept open and discussed, than those of us that are angered by (speaking for myself at least) what appears to be either 1. An absurdly diminished sense of the value of human life. or 2. Posting for no other purpose than to raise the ire of a large cross section of the board. should be permitted to vent their frustration in this thread, provided they do it in a manner consistent with the board's code of conduct. And I haven't stopped them from doing so (to the best of my knowledge), provided they did so in a manner consistent with the board's CoC. All my request said was that if it is difficult for you to discuss this topic at this time (or any time, for some), then please spare yourself the additional emotional stress and skip it. If you are comfortable discussing this topic -- which, I will remind you, is how the heinous acts of a given individual affect the good work that individual had done prior to that -- then you are welcome to do so. The position of yourself and many others has been "they completely invalidate them". Hedgemony and myself think that's a gross over-reaction, especially if the individual's sanity at the time of the act is/was in question. Others, like TM, are on the fence at this time; this is a lot to sort through, after all. Clearly, there is room for discussion. But if you're going to refuse to see any other side of the issue but your own, then you aren't really discussing anything and are just wasting everyone's time and "venting" for no real reason. Especially if you come on and say "I'm tired of talking about this" and then continue to talk about it. That goes for any topic on this board, really. |
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Post by swarm on Jun 28, 2007 20:00:41 GMT -5
See, Silly Donkey's. Book it.
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Post by gatekeeper on Jun 28, 2007 20:30:47 GMT -5
I feel if you liked Benoit as a wrestler and person before there should be nothing changing. I feel he was a good person and wrestler. He is and always will be one my favs in the wrestling world. I do not, I repeat I DO NOT think he killed his family. I believe it was a set up or frame up for him. He adored his son and would do anything he could for me. I think if you stop liking him from the gossip in the papers who are only printing stuf to sell there papers... I believe he is innocent ... this is my veiw... You DON"T think he killed his family?? Are you serious? Who did, then? You must have facts about the case that the police don't have. You must've viewed the crime scene and have a different view than the experts who investigate crime scenes for a living do. I understand not wanting to believe it, but face it, Benoit killed his family. Period. You can't think he didn't kill his family just because he's a wrestler that you liked. That makes no sense. They didn't make stuff up to sell papers. And, this SHOULD change your view of him. Benoit is a murderer. |
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Post by mft on Jun 28, 2007 21:33:02 GMT -5
I feel if you liked Benoit as a wrestler and person before there should be nothing changing. I feel he was a good person and wrestler. He is and always will be one my favs in the wrestling world. I do not, I repeat I DO NOT think he killed his family. I believe it was a set up or frame up for him. He adored his son and would do anything he could for me. I think if you stop liking him from the gossip in the papers who are only printing stuf to sell there papers... I believe he is innocent ... this is my veiw... Is this an April Fool's Day joke, only three months late? Honestly, you can't be serious. |
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Post by scarface on Jun 28, 2007 21:54:39 GMT -5
I feel if you liked Benoit as a wrestler and person before there should be nothing changing. I feel he was a good person and wrestler. He is and always will be one my favs in the wrestling world. I do not, I repeat I DO NOT think he killed his family. I believe it was a set up or frame up for him. He adored his son and would do anything he could for me. I think if you stop liking him from the gossip in the papers who are only printing stuf to sell there papers... I believe he is innocent ... this is my veiw... I believe in giving somebody the benefit of the doubt but come on face the facts. |
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Post by wildcat on Jun 28, 2007 22:04:45 GMT -5
Text Message 1 to two co-workers (sent 6/24 at 3:53am)- Chris Benoit’s cell phone
“My physical address is 130 Green Meadow Lane, Fayetteville Georgia. 30215”
Text Message 2 to two co-workers (sent 6/24 at 3:53am)- Chris Benoit’s cell phone
“The dogs are in the enclosed pool area. Garage side door is open”
Text Message 3 to two co-workers (sent 6/24 at 3:54am)- Nancy Benoit’s cell phone
“My physical address is 130 Green Meadow Lane. Fayetteville Georgia. 30215”
Text Message 4 to two co-workers (sent 6/24 at 3:55am)- Nancy Benoit’s cell phone
“My physical address is 130 Green Meadow Lane. Fayetteville Georgia. 30215"
Text Message 5 to one co-worker (sent 6/24 at 3:58am)- Nancy Benoit’s cell phone
“My address is 130 Green Meadow Lane. Fayetteville Georgia. 30215”
Why is everyone so quick to condem ?
There's so many odd things surrounding this inncodent.
Why would calls come from Chris's phone as well as Nancy's in what appears to be plea for help 24 hours before Chris hung himself ?
Why'd the cops say the dogs were running loose but the text clearly tells where the dogs were ( the enclosed pool area ) and how to get in the house through a open door.
If Chris killed Nancy in a fit of rage why did he stop and take the time to bind her ?
The mysterious death posting of Nancy 13 hours before the bodies were found.
There's too many questions just to close the book on this.
I'm not a conspiracy theory kind of guy but this case screams something odd and should not just be open and shut.
Nor I'm I just trying to cling to a fallen hero , I just want the truth . Which I feel may never come out.
Nothing adds up .
I know I'm gonna take a lot of heat for this but I'm not gonna be force fed info , even if it's the Fayette PD , when there's so many strange things surrounding the case.
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Post by Aquinas on Jun 28, 2007 22:07:58 GMT -5
I feel if you liked Benoit as a wrestler and person before there should be nothing changing. I feel he was a good person and wrestler. He is and always will be one my favs in the wrestling world. I do not, I repeat I DO NOT think he killed his family. I believe it was a set up or frame up for him. He adored his son and would do anything he could for me. I think if you stop liking him from the gossip in the papers who are only printing stuf to sell there papers... I believe he is innocent ... this is my veiw... Sorry, couldn't disagree more. I LOVED Benoit as a wrestler before but everything has changed. It's past the point of "whodunit?"....it's now why and what was wrong with him. It's plainly obvious that Chris Benoit is a child and wife killer. Sometimes, the person you see on the TV screen isn't really like that. Hell, sometimes the person you work with for years isn't really like that. Benoit is a murdering bastard who wiped out his family and then hastened his trip to hell by hanging himself. Try as I might to respect your opinion, it's time to wake up. (So much for yesterday being my last Chris Benoit post....oh well) |
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Post by Aquinas on Jun 28, 2007 22:11:35 GMT -5
Text Message 1 to two co-workers (sent 6/24 at 3:53am)- Chris Benoit’s cell phone “My physical address is 130 Green Meadow Lane, Fayetteville Georgia. 30215” Text Message 2 to two co-workers (sent 6/24 at 3:53am)- Chris Benoit’s cell phone
“The dogs are in the enclosed pool area. Garage side door is open” Text Message 3 to two co-workers (sent 6/24 at 3:54am)- Nancy Benoit’s cell phone “My physical address is 130 Green Meadow Lane. Fayetteville Georgia. 30215” Text Message 4 to two co-workers (sent 6/24 at 3:55am)- Nancy Benoit’s cell phone “My physical address is 130 Green Meadow Lane. Fayetteville Georgia. 30215" Text Message 5 to one co-worker (sent 6/24 at 3:58am)- Nancy Benoit’s cell phone “My address is 130 Green Meadow Lane. Fayetteville Georgia. 30215” Why is everyone so quick to condem ? There's so many odd things surrounding this inncodent. Why would calls come from Chris's phone as well as Nancy's in what appears to be plea for help 24 hours before Chris hung himself ? Why'd the cops say the dogs were running loose but the text clearly tells where the dogs were ( the enclosed pool area ) and how to get in the house through a open door. If Chris killed Nancy in a fit of rage why did he stop and take the time to bind her ? The mysterious death posting of Nancy 13 hours before the bodies were found. There's too many questions just to close the book on this. I'm not a conspiracy theory kind of guy but this case screams something odd and should not just be open and shut. Nor I'm I just trying to cling to a fallen hero , I just want the truth . Which I feel may never come out. Nothing adds up . I know I'm gonna take a lot of heat for this but I'm not gonna be force fed info , even if it's the Fayette PD , when there's so many strange things surrounding the case. How about a snapped Benoit sent those mesgs in part to have someone come and find the bodies, including his own by the time they got there? I don't think anyone is definitely saying he did it in a "fit of rage"....this seems premeditated and planned. Believe what you want.....the facts that have been released so far don't add up in your favor. |
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Post by scarface on Jun 28, 2007 22:25:45 GMT -5
Text Message 1 to two co-workers (sent 6/24 at 3:53am)- Chris Benoit’s cell phone “My physical address is 130 Green Meadow Lane, Fayetteville Georgia. 30215” Text Message 2 to two co-workers (sent 6/24 at 3:53am)- Chris Benoit’s cell phone
“The dogs are in the enclosed pool area. Garage side door is open” Text Message 3 to two co-workers (sent 6/24 at 3:54am)- Nancy Benoit’s cell phone “My physical address is 130 Green Meadow Lane. Fayetteville Georgia. 30215” Text Message 4 to two co-workers (sent 6/24 at 3:55am)- Nancy Benoit’s cell phone “My physical address is 130 Green Meadow Lane. Fayetteville Georgia. 30215" Text Message 5 to one co-worker (sent 6/24 at 3:58am)- Nancy Benoit’s cell phone “My address is 130 Green Meadow Lane. Fayetteville Georgia. 30215” Why is everyone so quick to condem ? There's so many odd things surrounding this inncodent. Why would calls come from Chris's phone as well as Nancy's in what appears to be plea for help 24 hours before Chris hung himself ? Why'd the cops say the dogs were running loose but the text clearly tells where the dogs were ( the enclosed pool area ) and how to get in the house through a open door. If Chris killed Nancy in a fit of rage why did he stop and take the time to bind her ? The mysterious death posting of Nancy 13 hours before the bodies were found. There's too many questions just to close the book on this. I'm not a conspiracy theory kind of guy but this case screams something odd and should not just be open and shut. Nor I'm I just trying to cling to a fallen hero , I just want the truth . Which I feel may never come out. Nothing adds up . I know I'm gonna take a lot of heat for this but I'm not gonna be force fed info , even if it's the Fayette PD , when there's so many strange things surrounding the case. I think the police investigators know what they're doing and wouldn't come out and say Benoit was the killer unless they had overwhelming evidence to back it up. They have enough training and experience in these matters to figure out it was a murder suicide and they would also be able to figure out if someone else killed the family and tried to make look like a murder suicide |
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Post by Dave on Jun 28, 2007 23:07:55 GMT -5
I was a big Beniot fan and enjoyed all his matches and I, too, did not think that Beniot was a killer iniatially. As I read more about the case and thought about the facts of the case, I came to the very bitter decision that Beniot killed his family. I still belief that Beniot loved his son (I hope that evidence does not prove me wrong) and that he had a break with reality ( I am beginning to wonder if his obsession with wrestling was a sign of mental illness). Newspaers do print stuff to sell their papers and that is how they make a living. Does that mean that the information that is in the article is false? I would answer no. The newspaer puts their spin on the story and, maybe ,even report only certain facts, but the facts that they do report tend to be accurate.
If they are not, the newspaper credibility is shot and may even be sued. The basic facts of this case points to Beniot killing his family.
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Post by Knapik on Jun 29, 2007 0:06:18 GMT -5
How come you continue to spell his name like that?
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Post by Dave on Jun 29, 2007 0:47:34 GMT -5
Knapik , I am a bad speller and should have double checked the spelling on Benoit.
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Post by Chris Ingersoll on Jun 29, 2007 7:36:42 GMT -5
Chris Benoit is a child and wife killer. Benoit is a murdering bastard Was. The individual in question is not out there walking the streets, or even locked away in a prison and/or mental asylum. There is no reason to refer to him using the present tense, and I think that may be part of the problem here. You're (and whenever I use "you" in this post I mean it in the "y'all" sense, not Aquinas specifically) using an absolute equation, no different than "the sky is blue"; whenever you think of the sky, you think "blue". Likewise, whenever you think of Benoit, you now think "murderer". Furthermore, he was a child and wife killer, was a mudering bastard, for only three days of his life -- a week at the very most. It's not like he had a prolonged history of killing people (or will ever kill again, for that matter); everything that's come out since Monday has basically summed up his entire 40-year criminal record as "one DUI, plus some domestic problems four years ago; some illegal drug/steroid/HGH use". That's not evil. Hell, by all accounts, he got really upset whenever he even so much as injured a fellow co-worker ( e.g. Sabu). I'd like to think that an "evil, murdering bastard" wouldn't have had that sort of compassion for his fellow man. Maybe I'm using a different definition of "evil" than the rest of you? This is where my line of thinking diverges from yours. I cannot equate two killings -- be they of a wife, child, total stranger, whatever -- with a man being pure, unadulterated evil, especially not when that man follows up by killing himself in what I can only imagine was an act of " OMG, WTF have I done?!". What I can equate that with is total insanity. Even the most "evil" individuals in the history of the world tended to draw the line short of killing their own families; one would have to be completely out of his mind to reach that point. BDS said "if you aren't outraged by this, that's because you don't have kids". I may not have kids (yet), but I do have a wife that I love more than anything else in the world, so I'm at least halfway there. The act itself is incomprehensible to me; I've passed well beyond rage, to the point where my sane, rational mind just isn't able to make sense of those actions. No sane man, "evil" or not, would -- could do this. If/when a man reaches that level of insanity, then he's no longer the man everyone used to know; it's almost a Dr. Jeckel/Mr. Hyde situation at that point. This is why I don't believe that my memory of his legacy won't be adversely affected by these events: in my mind, the guy in the ring is not the same guy who committed those horrible acts. I haven't put that to the test yet, however, and probably won't for a while. Some matches may be harder to watch than others (especially any with Nancy at ringside, I'd imagine), but I can still separate reality from fantasy. There was a time when most if not all of us believed wrestling to be real. Now that we know that it isn't real, why are most of you so willing to equate the real actions of a man (who was in all liklihood completely insane at the time) with the high quality of fantasy he created for twenty years? That's the connection I'm not making, and nobody has been able to provide an adequate explanation, if any explanation could be adequate given the circumstances. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying I just don't understand that line of feeling. |
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Post by dukedave on Jun 29, 2007 7:51:18 GMT -5
If/when a man reaches that level of insanity, then he's no longer the man everyone used to know; it's almost a Dr. Jeckel/Mr. Hyde situation at that point. I can't beleive how some people (and by people I mean not just you but those with similar opinions) are ready to make excuses. Maybe he was insane, maybe he was on drugs. Maybe he was just a low life child murdering a**hole. You can't make an excuse for every muderer. Hey that Osama bin Laden he would be a great guy if he would take his lithium. Hey that Hitler wouldn't have been so evil if properly diagnosed by his shrink. |
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Post by Chris Ingersoll on Jun 29, 2007 8:29:36 GMT -5
You can't make an excuse for every muderer. Likewise, you can't assume that every person who kills another does so in a premeditated, clear-headed manner. Also, invoking Hilter weakens your argument, because you're grasping for the most extreme example possible. |
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Post by swarm on Jun 29, 2007 8:32:26 GMT -5
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Post by dukedave on Jun 29, 2007 8:34:38 GMT -5
You can't make an excuse for every muderer. Likewise, you can't assume that every person who kills another does so in a premeditated, clear-headed manner. Also, invoking Hilter weakens your argument, because you're grasping for the most extreme example possible. Yes, I was using the most extreme example possible. To list every murderer who ever murdered without being insane would be a lengthy and tedious process. Our society seems to be too ready to let someone slide with an insanity defense. Yes, people have killed due to insanity but a lot of truly guilty people have "got off" by exploiting an insanity defense. |
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Post by swarm on Jun 29, 2007 8:42:41 GMT -5
Funny how no one here thought OJ was insane when he killed those people but all of a sudden a popular wrestler with great work rate does and it must have been "something else" or "he didn't do it" or "it was Kevin Sullivan" or "it was steroids..."
please...stop fooling yourselves you're embarrassing yourselves with this crap.
Can't we just move on from this?
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Post by Hegemony on Jun 29, 2007 9:03:54 GMT -5
Funny how no one here thought OJ was insane when he killed those people but all of a sudden a popular wrestler with great work rate does and it must have been "something else" or "he didn't do it" or "it was Kevin Sullivan" or "it was steroids..." please...stop fooling yourselves you're embarrassing yourselves with this crap. Can't we just move on from this? Unfortunately, this tragedy will stay with the world of pro-wrestling for a while, as well as with its many fans. If you feel the need to move on, why do you insist on posting in the thread? |
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