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Post by BDS on Jun 27, 2007 15:37:32 GMT -5
Do you think his "legacy" would be different if substantial changes to the wrestling industry result from the tragedies of this weekend? Different, perhaps, but I don't see him ever really being remembered fondly. Not after this. Even if this changes the landscape of wrestling forever, Benoit's going to be "the guy who snapped and killed his family." |
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Post by Hegemony on Jun 27, 2007 15:39:14 GMT -5
Chris Benoit was undeniably one of the greatest technical wrestlers in this business' history. But when you start talking about his "legacy" as opposed to his place in the ranks of ring technicians, that's an entirely different field. Chris Benoit died a monster, and fair or not, a large majority of people (myself included) are going to remember him that way. His legacy is going to be a black stain on this business - one that stands out among many others, which is saying a whole lot. His legacy as "one of the greatest technical wrestlers in this business' history" is precisely the point I am trying to make. I am curious if people feel comfortable making this claim today or in the future regarding Benoit in light of recent events. As I was trying to say, I think it is still a valid point and should be remembered when discussing Benoit the performer, although it will undeniably be difficult in light of this situation. His legacy will also be inextricably tied to the murder of his family and his suicide, but is it possible to disentangle the two? |
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Post by vansabu on Jun 27, 2007 15:40:42 GMT -5
When do you separate "sick" from "evil?" Why do you bother separating the two? Can you separate them? I'm sure there is, somewhere, an explanation for what Chris Benoit did. Maybe Chris Nowinski is right, and his brain was scrambled from too many bumps. Maybe he was driven mad by the pharmaceuticals coursing through his veins. Maybe he took one too many short jokes from Kevin Nash over the years, and something was said that set him off. I'm sure that if people dig deep enough, there's some root cause to be found. Who [censored] cares. Chris Benoit bound his wife at the hands and feet before strangling her to death with a cord. He suffocated his seven-year-old son, and allegedly he'd been injecting him with HGH because he thought he was too small. If you're not enraged by those things, it's only because you don't have children. I hope to make it to heaven when I'm done here. I hope to meet the Benoits there - all of them. Until that time, though, I'd rather not even hear the name of Chris Benoit again. He was a remarkable wrestler, and he was a murderer, and I just can't separate the two. AGREED |
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Post by Hegemony on Jun 27, 2007 15:40:50 GMT -5
Do you think his "legacy" would be different if substantial changes to the wrestling industry result from the tragedies of this weekend? Different, perhaps, but I don't see him ever really being remembered fondly. Not after this. Even if this changes the landscape of wrestling forever, Benoit's going to be "the guy who snapped and killed his family." This seems to be the majority opinion on the Internet today, at least on the forums I frequent. |
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Post by Dragon Breath on Jun 27, 2007 15:48:11 GMT -5
Do you think his "legacy" would be different if substantial changes to the wrestling industry result from the tragedies of this weekend? I hoped that when Guerrero died that we would see a dramatic shift in the looks of performers, their mental and physical health, etc., but it did not come to pass. What if it took a tragedy such as this to force changes to occur? Obviously this is pure speculation, but interesting nonetheless. His legacy has nothing to do with how the WWE reacts to this tragedy. His legacy doesn't get bonus points for the fact that the WWE will have to expend an enormous amout of effort and resources clean up a PR nightmare because of his actions. Let's say hypothetically that after much blood sweat and tears, the WWE completely changes its culture and how it does buisness, and these changes are universally accepted to be positive. If this hypothetical scenario happened, do you really think that someone looking back on Benoit is going to think something like "Gee its a shame that he brutally murdered his family, but on the plus side the work environment for WWE wrestlers greatly improved in the aftermath."? Do you really think this would enhance Benoit's legacy? It remains to be seen how the chips fall in the aftermath of this, but I wouldn't be surprised if Benoit caused an enormous amount of permanent harm to the industry. |
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Post by BDS on Jun 27, 2007 15:51:27 GMT -5
but is it possible to disentangle the two? No, not as far as I'm concerned. It remains to be seen how the chips fall in the aftermath of this, but I wouldn't be surprised if Benoit caused an enormous amout of permanent harm to the industry. Unfortunately, I agree with this entirely. |
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Post by Wildfire on Jun 27, 2007 16:06:07 GMT -5
This is (probably) the last post I will make about Chris Benoit on this forum. And I do so because I respect Hegemony's opinions. I considered Chris Benoit one of the greatest wrestlers ever. He entertained me countless times and made everyone he wrestled look good. He won many titles. But none of that matters one damn bit now. I will never look at anything he did and think anything else other than, "That piece of sh*t suffocated his little boy and choked his wife to death, then bailed out of this world". I give him zero credit. O.J. Simpson accomplished a great deal on the football field, but that doesn't matter for squat to me either, because he killed his ex-wife and her friend. I go out of my way to avoid even seeing clips of him, and I view any mention of him in a football context as scorn. Chris Benoit worked very very hard to establish a legendary legacy in the ring -- and by his own disgusting, horrific actions, he sh*t on that legacy and it deserves to be dead and buried along with his sorry a$$. I will never even consider him when speaking of the greatest wrestlers. So, no, I can't separate the two, and I will never apologize for it. He can rot in hell, and I hope he is. There is no circumstance that can be conjured up, mental illness or otherwise, to even begin to excuse what he did. Well said, I feel exactly the same way. This is such a good post, it deserved to be quoted again  @ Hegemony: You don't see alot of people revelng in the on field legacy of OJ Simpson, do you? Its all well and good to 'say' you want to separate the two, but most human beings won't be able to. I'm not going to be able to watch a Benoit match and think "what a great match" I'm gonna think "how the hell did all that happen. I GUARANTEE that you will NEVER see a Benoit match on a WWE DVD set again, hell, they may even start removing them from recent PPVs... very few people will ever want to see this guy again. |
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Post by Wildfire on Jun 27, 2007 16:07:54 GMT -5
If you're not enraged by those things, it's only because you don't have children. . I don't have kids. Is it OK if I'm enraged. Absolutely not.. the best you should must is 'concerned for the industry' or 'upset' Enraged is reserved for us dads. |
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Post by scarface on Jun 27, 2007 16:14:21 GMT -5
If you're not enraged by those things, it's only because you don't have children. . I don't have kids. Is it OK if I'm enraged. Absolutely |
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Post by gatekeeper on Jun 27, 2007 17:10:58 GMT -5
I don't have kids. Is it OK if I'm enraged. Absolutely not.. the best you should must is 'concerned for the industry' or 'upset' Enraged is reserved for us dads. This is the most ridiculous post ever. You are not the boss of other people's emotions. |
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Post by Werner Mueck on Jun 27, 2007 17:13:53 GMT -5
What he did this weekend can't change what he did in his career but it sure as hell can change the way we look at and feel about that career.
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Post by dukedave on Jun 27, 2007 17:14:26 GMT -5
Absolutely not.. the best you should must is 'concerned for the industry' or 'upset' Enraged is reserved for us dads. This is the most ridiculous post ever. You are not the boss of other people's emotions. I beleive he was being sarcastic but didn't put one of these  I hope that's the case. Otherwise, yes you are correct. |
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Post by krisosk on Jun 27, 2007 17:30:47 GMT -5
This is (probably) the last post I will make about Chris Benoit on this forum. And I do so because I respect Hegemony's opinions. I considered Chris Benoit one of the greatest wrestlers ever. He entertained me countless times and made everyone he wrestled look good. He won many titles. But none of that matters one damn bit now. I will never look at anything he did and think anything else other than, "That piece of sh*t suffocated his little boy and choked his wife to death, then bailed out of this world". I give him zero credit. O.J. Simpson accomplished a great deal on the football field, but that doesn't matter for squat to me either, because he killed his ex-wife and her friend. I go out of my way to avoid even seeing clips of him, and I view any mention of him in a football context with scorn. Chris Benoit worked very very hard to establish a legendary legacy in the ring -- and by his own disgusting, horrific actions, he sh*t on that legacy and it deserves to be dead and buried along with his sorry a$$. I will never even consider him when speaking of the greatest wrestlers. So, no, I can't separate the two, and I will never apologize for it. He can rot in hell, and I hope he is. There is no circumstance that can be conjured up, mental illness or otherwise, to even begin to excuse what he did. I'm going to have to bring this terrific post up one more time as I couldn't have said it better myself. Way to finish up on the subject, Aquinas. ~ :-Xsk |
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Post by Dave on Jun 27, 2007 17:49:32 GMT -5
Who really cares about his legacy as a wrestler? The fact that he murdered his wife, and especially his 7-year-old son in a premeditated fashion is all people will remember. These events tainted, actually destroyed, his legacy. Who can watch a Beniot match and not get physically sick over what Beniot did? I know that I will have difficulty watching any match of Beniot's.
oj simpson is still being disrespected and his legacy denied to this day by a lot of people because of two murders. Beniot is not special and does not deserve special treatment and deserves to be treated like oj simpson. Beniot' legacy will be denied for years and disrespected for years to come and he will deserve it..
All people will remember is that Beniot killed his family and that he pissed his legacy away!
Of course Beniot's legacy is tied to the murders and will be impossible to seperate his legacy from this tragedy.
Beniot may have been a great wrestler, but he was a shitty person and will only be remembered as the man who killed his family and destroyed his legendary career. May Nancy and Daniel rest in piece and may Chris Beniot get whatever he deserves in the afterlife.
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Post by GOODZILLA on Jun 27, 2007 18:57:33 GMT -5
You can't have be a murderer and still leave a leagacy for anything but that ...
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Post by Dragon Breath on Jun 27, 2007 20:43:01 GMT -5
As someone who participated heavily in both threads, I assure you that the ground covered this one is pretty much identical to the last 10 pages of the other one. Funny, I see numerous posts about why he may have done it, news about Fragile-X syndrome, what WWE should have done or not done, how much WWE knew before the Raw tribute, all topics not in the realm of what was mentioned in this thread. Obviously identical. Go back and read what I typed. Yes, there is some additional info in the other thread that hasn't been covered here. The point I was trying to make is that nothing has been discussed in this thread that wasn't already covered in the other one. Except for Althusser. But he hasn't been mentioned since your original post, so I'm pretty sure no one gives a crap about him. Probably because he killed his wife. |
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Post by Hegemony on Jun 27, 2007 20:48:16 GMT -5
Funny, I see numerous posts about why he may have done it, news about Fragile-X syndrome, what WWE should have done or not done, how much WWE knew before the Raw tribute, all topics not in the realm of what was mentioned in this thread. Obviously identical. Go back and read what I typed. Yes, there is some additional info in the other thread that hasn't been covered here. The point I was trying to make is that nothing has been discussed in this thread that wasn't already covered in the other one. Except for Althusser. But he hasn't been mentioned since your original post, so I'm pretty sure no one gives a crap about him. Probably because he killed his wife. Thanks for bringing this back on topic. If these cultural theorists still find value in Althusser's work, I am curious if this same phenomenon will translate to the legacy (or lack thereof) of Benoit. In the hours since my original post, I have seen stances soften on other boards concerning whether Benoit should be completely erased from history. And it's funny, as during these same hours I have once again felt a shift in my own feelings on the matter. And who knows what other information will come out, as it seemingly gets worse by the hour. |
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Post by Dragon Breath on Jun 27, 2007 20:49:41 GMT -5
Except for Althusser. But he hasn't been mentioned since your original post, so I'm pretty sure no one gives a crap about him. Probably because he killed his wife. What a fantastic point. Too bad Hedge missed it.  |
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Post by Hegemony on Jun 27, 2007 20:50:17 GMT -5
Too bad Hedge missed it. No, I saw it. It was just no-sold. ;D |
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Post by Hegemony on Jun 27, 2007 20:51:45 GMT -5
For the record, Althusser is widely regarded in many circles within academia, despite his personal failures. Any of your college professors will have heard of him.
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