Swarm

[jefft]

joe said:

fredkc6cfb said:

As someone who has administrated and been a staffer on many, many 'Net board communities like this one, I understand that rules must be followed in order to maintain control. And, some board hosts (my only experiences have been with IF) enforce a no profanity rule on pain of board deletion. So the no swearing policy may not be the personal preference of the person that operates this fan forums.

My own personal style is to allow members as much leeway as possible, including allowing them to clean-up their own posts if violations occur (and only then, if they refuse to do so, am I forced to discipline them). But this Isn't my board and I'm not going to nitpick another admin's style.

From what I gather from reading these posts, this Swarm fellow has been banned multiple times in the past. That tells me, without even needing to review past posts, that he simply had to have been doing something wrong in order to have been punished. And not just once, but over and over again. Such a poster on any of my old boards would have been permanently booted. So if he is allowed back, then this site's Admin isn't that bad a guy. And he certainly has far more patience than me.

I disagree with the profanity thing, but a rule is a rule. Personally, I think it is a stupid rule, especially when your allowed to type things such as "f**k" or "f'n." If Chris, or whoever the genius was that decided to allow permissable ways to type around filters, is trying to protect the eyes of innocent children or those easily offended, I would like to ask him or them one thing: Do you think the kid or the sensitive cat reads the word to be "F, asterisk, asterisk, asterisk" or does he read it to as the actual profanity. Just curious.

As for Swarm's frequent bannings, he is held to different standards than everyone else. Hell, it seems as if he cannot express opinions about anything without someone crying out "personal attack!" The fact that people seem to get such a joy out of discussing him when he is away is proof of how there is a different standard applied to Swarm than others on here. Certain people, Butters for example, come out of the woodwork just to take shots at him or participate in an anti-Swarm tirade.

By the way, I would like to thank Butters for keeping my name out of his mouth like I told him last time. Good looking out, Biscuit.

I'm sure Swarm has broken a rule or two here, but I am also sure others have without being banned. I don't think people should be banned for saying things others might not agree with. Hell, I don't think people should get banned for calling people out after they make dumb comments, but that has happened to Swarm in the past.

One of the reasons Swarm has incurred the wrath of the mods is because he doesn't hesitate to disagree with them. Tommy Brownell frequently takes part in discussions, and arguments, on this board. If he is going to debate like a regular member, he should be treated like one. Swarm's last suspension prior to this came on the heels of a heated debate with ol' Brownie, one in which Chris got involved, as well. It was said his suspension was for violating a rule against airing grievances with a mod in public, but it seemed obvious to many (not just the "yes-men" like Payback and me) that he was being punished for having an on-going argument with someone who happens to be a mod.

Finally, it is amusing to me how certain people, one of who reappeared to post in this thread and another who posted in another thread recently about Swarm, allow this man to infuriate you so. Seriously, he is talking about wrestling. WRESTLING! What is wrong with some of you people? Seriously, you guys should be out trying to get on chicks or make some money,something, anything instead of worrying what a guy who posts on a discussion board dedicated to a wrestling game thinks of you.

- I totally agree about the mods participating in discussions...were I to moderate a site I think it would be inappropriate to become deeply involved in some of the debates that go on.

- If your comments about butters were against me...I would take them personal, it doesn't make sense to me that you would argue against the fact that Swarm makes personal comments and then turn around and take a snipe at someone else.

- You do realize while you lecture others against getting involved in threads about Swarm while he is away that you just posted 5 paragraphs of wide-ranging commentary in said thread, don't you?

[jefft]

thepunisher said:

If there was a different forum, board, etc., I'd be there.

Real men who don't pull punches and don't back down are persecuted here.

You mods must be jealous of people with balls.

/sarcasm on/

Your right - it takes a REAL MAN to type inappropriate stuff on a messageboard and disagree with the moderators on an internet website.

/sarcasm off/

Gee, ya got firefighters who go out there everyday to save our lives, the heroes of flight 93, I spent 4 months getting my butt shot at for my country, seen dead men and mass graves, watched a good friend lose a hand and get upset (heck, downright PO'd) that he couldn't go back to war, and I walk with a permanent limp (and I'm damn proud of it).

Let's find some perspective here, guys?

[Joe]

jefft said:

joe said:

I disagree with the profanity thing, but a rule is a rule. Personally, I think it is a stupid rule, especially when your allowed to type things such as "f**k" or "f'n." If Chris, or whoever the genius was that decided to allow permissable ways to type around filters, is trying to protect the eyes of innocent children or those easily offended, I would like to ask him or them one thing: Do you think the kid or the sensitive cat reads the word to be "F, asterisk, asterisk, asterisk" or does he read it to as the actual profanity. Just curious.

As for Swarm's frequent bannings, he is held to different standards than everyone else. Hell, it seems as if he cannot express opinions about anything without someone crying out "personal attack!" The fact that people seem to get such a joy out of discussing him when he is away is proof of how there is a different standard applied to Swarm than others on here. Certain people, Butters for example, come out of the woodwork just to take shots at him or participate in an anti-Swarm tirade.

By the way, I would like to thank Butters for keeping my name out of his mouth like I told him last time. Good looking out, Biscuit.

I'm sure Swarm has broken a rule or two here, but I am also sure others have without being banned. I don't think people should be banned for saying things others might not agree with. Hell, I don't think people should get banned for calling people out after they make dumb comments, but that has happened to Swarm in the past.

One of the reasons Swarm has incurred the wrath of the mods is because he doesn't hesitate to disagree with them. Tommy Brownell frequently takes part in discussions, and arguments, on this board. If he is going to debate like a regular member, he should be treated like one. Swarm's last suspension prior to this came on the heels of a heated debate with ol' Brownie, one in which Chris got involved, as well. It was said his suspension was for violating a rule against airing grievances with a mod in public, but it seemed obvious to many (not just the "yes-men" like Payback and me) that he was being punished for having an on-going argument with someone who happens to be a mod.

Finally, it is amusing to me how certain people, one of who reappeared to post in this thread and another who posted in another thread recently about Swarm, allow this man to infuriate you so. Seriously, he is talking about wrestling. WRESTLING! What is wrong with some of you people? Seriously, you guys should be out trying to get on chicks or make some money,something, anything instead of worrying what a guy who posts on a discussion board dedicated to a wrestling game thinks of you.

- I totally agree about the mods participating in discussions...were I to moderate a site I think it would be inappropriate to become deeply involved in some of the debates that go on.

- If your comments about butters were against me...I would take them personal, it doesn't make sense to me that you would argue against the fact that Swarm makes personal comments and then turn around and take a snipe at someone else.

- You do realize while you lecture others against getting involved in threads about Swarm while he is away that you just posted 5 paragraphs of wide-ranging commentary in said thread, don't you?

In response to what you wrote:
-The mods posting and getting into arguments obviously creates a conflict of interest. In most cases, if someone has the power to censor someone who makes them look like a fool or pisses them off in the course of a discussion, they will be inclined to do so.

-My comments toward Butters were meant to be personal. Not an attack mind you, but he took a snipe at me, so I return the favor. The funny thing is, I had never communicated with Butters at all prior to him putting my name in his mouth except to compliment him on his fed and tell him I looked forward to reading more.

-I am absolutely aware that I spent 5 paragraphs talking about Swarm and what happened. The difference being is he is my friend. Not "Swarm is a good poster and valued contributor to our community" friend, but my boy. My friend. If you were my friend and I heard a bunch of people talking about you while you weren't around, I would spend five paragraphs on you, as well.

[Chris Ingersoll]

jefft said:

- I totally agree about the mods participating in discussions...were I to moderate a site I think it would be inappropriate to become deeply involved in some of the debates that go on.

So we're allowed to provide you guys a place to be fans but not be fans ourselves, correct?

Seriously, this isn't a hard concept: No one has ever been punished for disagreeing with one of the mods.

If that were the case, Joe would have been temp-banned seveal times by now, and yet to my knowledge he never has been. Sometimes we disagree with the manner in which that disagreement is presented, and when that manner runs (too far) afoul of the rules action is taken, but everyone is entitled to their opinions.

[jefft]

admin said:

jefft said:

- I totally agree about the mods participating in discussions...were I to moderate a site I think it would be inappropriate to become deeply involved in some of the debates that go on.

So we're allowed to provide you guys a place to be fans but not be fans ourselves, correct?

Seriously, this isn't a hard concept: No one has ever been punished for disagreeing with one of the mods.

If that were the case, Joe would have been temp-banned seveal times by now, and yet to my knowledge he never has been. Sometimes we disagree with the manner in which that disagreement is presented, and when that manner runs (too far) afoul of the rules action is taken, but everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Oh, I totally see your side of it, sir. I believe this is your site...perhaps you wouldn't even have the site if you couldn't participate in it fully.

That being said...you open yourself up to these kinds of threads and myself (only speaking for me, mind you), I just wouldn't want to deal with the appearance of bias that mods getting involved in discussions obviously causes.

[Chris Ingersoll]

jefft said:

That being said...you open yourself up to these kinds of threads and myself (only speaking for me, mind you), I just wouldn't want to deal with the appearance of bias that mods getting involved in discussions obviously causes.

This is one reason why we (speaking for the mod staff) prefer that issues with the mods be dealt with privately. However, threads like this do show up occasionally, and the discussion in them usually helps to clear the air a bit.

Of course, there's also the fact that I didn't even see this thread until it had gained about 3 pages of momentum. Under different circumstances, this thread would likely have been locked (if not deleted) and we might not even be having this discussion at all, but since a lot had already been said, I felt the need to step in and address a few points, which brings us to where we are now.

[MikeMcKinney]

I've never had a problem with anybody on these boards (except them Wrestle Wars guys) This is a great board... with guys and (girls didn't want to forget stevie) who are fans of the greatest game I've ever played....Now we all dissagree from time to time (thats life) but in the end we all have one common interest, COTG!!!! So lets not forget that! In all honestly who on here can say they've done something in life, as long as they've played COTG??(besides breathing) me I've been playing for 20 years........I've been through many games, relationships, freinds, and jobs... but COTG is has always been there through it all...

tkx again, the dice don't lie

[jefft]

mikemckinney said:

I've never had a problem with anybody on these boards (except them Wrestle Wars guys) This is a great board... with guys and (girls didn't want to forget stevie) who are fans of the greatest game I've ever played....Now we all dissagree from time to time (thats life) but in the end we all have one common interest, COTG!!!! So lets not forget that! In all honestly who on here can say they've done something in life, as long as they've played COTG??(besides breathing) me I've been playing for 20 years........I've been through many games, relationships, freinds, and jobs... but COTG is has always been there through it all...

tkx again, the dice don't lie

Well, I've been a father for 18 years and been playing COTG for 17. ;D

[Knapik]

jefft said:

Gee, ya got firefighters who go out there everyday to save our lives, the heroes of flight 93, I spent 4 months getting my butt shot at for my country, seen dead men and mass graves, watched a good friend lose a hand and get upset (heck, downright PO'd) that he couldn't go back to war, and I walk with a permanent limp (and I'm damn proud of it).

Let's find some perspective here, guys?

Comparisons between the real world and this message board are moronic. This is a community we are a part of and it's okay to be upset about something that concerns the community. I don't agree with the Swarm-sympathizers, but they have a right to be upset about it. What's next "Crap I just lost my job... but you know what? People are dying, so I have no reason to be down." People on this board should quit trying to govern each other's emotions. Oh my goodness, Rob's friend want him to be able to be a part of this community?!?! What about your friend that lost his hand OMG?!

Let's find some perspective? My perspective is this message board has nothing to do with your war experiences.

[jefft]

knapik said:

jefft said:

Gee, ya got firefighters who go out there everyday to save our lives, the heroes of flight 93, I spent 4 months getting my butt shot at for my country, seen dead men and mass graves, watched a good friend lose a hand and get upset (heck, downright PO'd) that he couldn't go back to war, and I walk with a permanent limp (and I'm damn proud of it).

Let's find some perspective here, guys?

Comparisons between the real world and this message board are moronic. This is a community we are a part of and it's okay to be upset about something that concerns the community. I don't agree with the Swarm-sympathizers, but they have a right to be upset about it. What's next "Crap I just lost my job... but you know what? People are dying, so I have no reason to be down." People on this board should quit trying to govern each other's emotions. I've seen you get riled up on the boards, jeff... and oh my goodness, Rob's friend want him to be able to be a part of this community?!?! What about your friend that lost his hand OMG?!

Let's find some perspective? My perspective is this message board has nothing to do with your war experiences.

I didn't make the 'moronic comparison', knapik, but thanks for agreeing with me on that matter. I only used other examples as a reference to the original one. If you can't see that, I don't know what to say. Still, if you truly have a problem with real world analogies on the messageboard perhaps you should first direct your point to the person who started them.

[PureHatred]

knapik said:

jefft said:

Gee, ya got firefighters who go out there everyday to save our lives, the heroes of flight 93, I spent 4 months getting my butt shot at for my country, seen dead men and mass graves, watched a good friend lose a hand and get upset (heck, downright PO'd) that he couldn't go back to war, and I walk with a permanent limp (and I'm damn proud of it).

Let's find some perspective here, guys?

Comparisons between the real world and this message board are moronic. This is a community we are a part of and it's okay to be upset about something that concerns the community. I don't agree with the Swarm-sympathizers, but they have a right to be upset about it. What's next "Crap I just lost my job... but you know what? People are dying, so I have no reason to be down." People on this board should quit trying to govern each other's emotions. I've seen you get riled up on the boards, jeff... and oh my goodness, Rob's friend want him to be able to be a part of this community?!?! What about your friend that lost his hand OMG?!

Let's find some perspective? My perspective is this message board has nothing to do with your war experiences.

C'mon knapik...how can you worry about what happens on the boards of a dice based wrestlign gaem when there are children in Africa starving?

[Knapik]

Sorry, jeff, I don't see who wrote that now. You're good.

Seriously, PH, it's starting to hit home now... I also can't believe I'm upset about TNA sucking when there are terrorists killing people (!) overseas. The two go hand-in-hand.

edit: Apology RETRACTED, you DID say that stuff. Oh my goodness! haha. "You think you're A MAN FOR BANNING SWARM?! My friend lost a hand!"

[ThePunisher]

jefft said:

thepunisher said:

If there was a different forum, board, etc., I'd be there.

Real men who don't pull punches and don't back down are persecuted here.

You mods must be jealous of people with balls.

/sarcasm on/

Your right - it takes a REAL MAN to type inappropriate stuff on a messageboard and disagree with the moderators on an internet website.

/sarcasm off/

Gee, ya got firefighters who go out there everyday to save our lives, the heroes of flight 93, I spent 4 months getting my butt shot at for my country, seen dead men and mass graves, watched a good friend lose a hand and get upset (heck, downright PO'd) that he couldn't go back to war, and I walk with a permanent limp (and I'm damn proud of it).

Let's find some perspective here, guys?

I have all the respect in the world for any and all of the things you wrote about. Everytime I see a clip of 9/11 it makes me want to enlist.

So before I get all MANLY again, I'll say thank you for what you gave up for this country and the freedoms that come with it.

However, one of those freedoms is the freedom of expression. And swearing or porn or whatever other "immoral" stuff is included in that whether we like it or not. Parents have the responsibility for what kids see or don't see.

It's not Swarm's job to keep his mouth G rated. It's not mine when referring to male anatomy.

It takes a real man to say what he wants to say at any moment regardless of what outcome it means for him personally. Whistleblowers do it all the time with the chances of being blacklisted by companies all over the globe. But they do it because they believe in it.

Swarm says what he wants when he wants. It got under the mods' skin and this is what he has to go through. That's why I disagree with the mods.

Because like you, I want to defend the members of this board's freedom to disagree and have opinions without worrying if they are about to be temp-banned.

(The reason for the majority of the immaturity in the last post stems from the fact that I wrote a longer, more meaningful post right before but was unable to post it before I was auto logged out)

[PureHatred]

Dude..it's a PG-13 game...there's a swear filter in place for a reason...even Payback said that Swarm knows he made a mistake.

Defending a poster's right to have and express an opinion is one thing. And being upset because you think someone was banned for expressing their opinion is one thing. But defending someone's "right" to use the F-Bomb is a little dumb; this isn't an injustice.

Swarm made a mistake. He's taken this incident like a grown up and there's a prett y good chance that when he gets back he'll incorporate the whole incident into a very strong show. "Swarm" the character will probably cut a profanity laced tirade that is censored by Massif while the fans cheer wildly.

Chill out.

[ThePunisher]

purehatred said:

Dude..it's a PG-13 game...there's a swear filter in place for a reason...even Payback said that Swarm knows he made a mistake.

Defending a poster's right to have and express an opinion is one thing. And being upset because you think someone was banned for expressing their opinion is one thing. But defending someone's "right" to use the F-Bomb is a little dumb; this isn't an injustice.

Swarm made a mistake. He's taken this incident like a grown up and there's a prett y good chance that when he gets back he'll incorporate the whole incident into a very strong show. "Swarm" the character will probably cut a profanity laced tirade that is censored by Massif while the fans cheer wildly.

Chill out.

[censored] F [censored] F

Agreed that Swarm will use it well.

Agreed that there is a filter as evidenced from above. If someone gets around it, good for them for having a 1st grade education.

I'm not saying that this has anything to do with swearing. I pointed out that of the umpteen thousand fed forums majority of them have a swear word implied using symbols. Of all of these, the only one banned is Swarm. Why? Because he has disagreed with the mods more than once? Possibly. Because he has the most viewed thread and this would be a great way for a mod to try to show their rules enforcement capability (aka no balls syndrome)? Maybe. Or was it because of the actual infraction (when 40 other users have done the same thing)? Unlikely.

I'm acting all pissy because there is no consistency.

Oh and by the way, in case you haven't watched the news or don't have cable...

The world is rated R at least. NC-17 is more like it. If you can't handle it, go cry in a corner somewhere.

[ThePunisher]

Apparently a bootlegged filter lol

[PureHatred]

The world is R-rated and if you don't like it go cry in a corner? Well there'a perfectly reasonable response. I can't imagine why the mods haven't yielded to this logic.

How many people have to tell you that while swearing isn't their issue this is supposed to be a family friendly board to suport a family friendly game. Tom produces a PG-13 game. It's part of the reason why "flaming" is so strictly regulated when on most wrestling boards is practically encouraged.

Like I said, I understand how you'd get upset when you feel Swamr is unjustly punished, but this wasn't one of those cases. You're just making it harder to take you seriously when something really unfair does happen.

[ThePunisher]

thepunisher said:

I'm not saying that this has anything to do with swearing. I pointed out that of the umpteen thousand fed forums majority of them have a swear word implied using symbols. Of all of these, the only one banned is Swarm. Why? Because he has disagreed with the mods more than once? Possibly. Because he has the most viewed thread and this would be a great way for a mod to try to show their rules enforcement capability (aka no balls syndrome)? Maybe. Or was it because of the actual infraction (when 40 other users have done the same thing)? Unlikely.

Reread and reevaluate your comments.

My argument is not...NOT...about swearing. Chris is conforming to Tom's rules and that's all well and good. There's a filter and everything (that doesn't apparently work too well when swear words are strung together).

My logic on the R rated thing is that if your precious eyes are so sensitive, a corner or a locked closet might be a better place for you.

Yea Swarm made a mistake. But so have I. So have 250 or so other posters. And I'm still here talking. And they're all still here talking. But Swarm's not.

[PureHatred]

Well according to earlier posts, Chris did send along an advanced warning. If I'm wrong then I apologiz, but if you get a warning.....

And the R ratred argument is still a little weak. Nobody has said they're offended. But as a parent I wouldn't want my kids posting or reading posts filled with swear words especially when this is a game for all ages. It's like being in a room with a bunch of little kids; you should be aware of the words you use.

[ThePunisher]

Well there's our problem. I swear horribly no matter the situation.

Thing is that your kids will learn those words one way or the other. That doesn't justify anyone using them in their vicinity.

It just falls on you to teach them what is acceptable about usage.