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Post by gatekeeper on Mar 15, 2007 20:17:21 GMT -5
Ok, this seems like a quick answer but hear me out. On WWE 24/7 they have a roundtable discussion and they were talking about 10 of the best superstars from the 80's.
Roundtable was Michael Hayes, Pat Patterson, Dusty Rhodes, and Mike Graham.
I think it was Pat Patterson who said, if Dusty would've come to WWF/E instead of Hogan and they put the promotion machine behind him, that Dusty would've gotten over as much as Hogan did.
Patterson said when he first met Dusty, he never saw a face be as over as he was.
So, do you think Dusty could've equalled Hogan's rise?
I still say no, but I think Dusty would've done real well.
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Post by blueraider2 on Mar 15, 2007 20:23:43 GMT -5
he wouldn;t probably get as big a push payback.
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Post by Pete on Mar 15, 2007 20:30:31 GMT -5
I like Dusty as a character. I appreciate him a lot more now than I did years ago. Guy was over everywhere he went, including New York. And contrary to popular Internet smark opinion, he was a damned good booker for a number of years.
But no. Just...no. Not on a national level.
There is literally no one else besides Hogan who would have fit into that spot at the time and done what Vince wanted to do. No one who could have handled the media and come across as a major celebrity the way Hogan did. Plus, Dusty's character was far more compelling as the blue-collar, "regular" guy who was constantly chasing the title. Vince needed a superman babyface who was constantly defending the title against the Heel of the Month. Dusty wasn't fit for that role.
It was Hogan or bust. If for some reason Hulk wasn't an option, then maybe...maybe...I could see Sgt. Slaughter pulling off a run at the top. But that's really about it.
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Post by GalactiKing on Mar 16, 2007 15:33:37 GMT -5
Not at Hogan's level. Could the WWF have done big things with Dusty? Sure...but it likely would be closer to JYD or the like than Hogan.
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Post by incognito on Mar 16, 2007 17:41:42 GMT -5
No. Rhodes was good; but, I don't think he could ever achieve the level Hogan did. He was the right man at the right time.
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Post by Mark 138 on Mar 16, 2007 18:29:29 GMT -5
Dusty's look would have kept him from that level. The scars all over the forehead, the horrible physique, the hair, the whole bit. There's no way he would've had the crossover appeal of Hogan. The MTV people wouldn't have gone for him, so the whole Rock N wrestling thing never would've happened. You can forget about selling the action figures, posters, school folders, on down the list, of a guy who looked more like a janitor than a super-hero, which was a part of Hogan's appeal.
I agree that Dusty would've gotten over on the second-tier like Tito Santana or JYD, but he just couldn't have been in Hogan's spot. The comments on 24/7 were just typical wrestler hyperbole. The kind of thing guys say about each other when they're face to face. Also, I'm sure a big part of it was giving him the build because he's going into their Hall Of Fame this year.
Never forget the polka-dotted practioner of the "triple potty bypass". That's all the WWF thought he was good for when they got him in the early 90s.
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Post by swarm on Mar 16, 2007 18:30:00 GMT -5
Let's see...
Dusty vs. Rocky...?
Dusty vs. Bundy...?
Dusty vs. Andre...?
No.
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Post by hofclemens on Mar 16, 2007 18:48:20 GMT -5
I voted no... I just don't think anybody could have done it as big as Hogan.
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Post by Tournament Master on Mar 16, 2007 19:11:24 GMT -5
He had the charisma, but not the look to make it as big as Hogan did.
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Post by Bazzy on Mar 17, 2007 21:51:07 GMT -5
Hogan wouldn't allow it ?
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Post by daytondave on Mar 18, 2007 6:54:11 GMT -5
I have never been a Hulkamaniac, but I have to agree with the assessment that he was the right man in the right place at the right time. Back in the old days of the WWF, the pre-Attitude era, it was very black-and-white between the heels and the faces, and the babyface champion was the staple of the era. After long runs of rather non-descript champs like Sammartino and Backlund, Hogan was the guy with the size and the charisma to usher in the new era, even if he did suck in the ring.
Only Flair had the look and the charisma to rival Hogan, but he would not have risen to Hogan's level of success in his best role as a heel. Kerry Von Erich had the look and the ability, but not the charisma.
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Post by offspring515 on Mar 18, 2007 9:46:00 GMT -5
Hogan didn't suck in the ring.
I see people say that all the time, and this is nothing against you daytona, but it's just not true. There's more to in ring wrestler than knowing 1,000 holds or being a great technician. There's selling, which Hogan in his prime was awesome at, there's in ring charisma, which NOBODY has ever matched Hogan for, and there is getting the fans to believe in you and your opponent.
So saying Hogan isn't very technically proficient in the ring is fine, but calling him a bad wrestler or a bad worker is ridiculous IMO.
As to the question at hand, it's been answered already by lots of solid posts here. Dusty had many of the tools that Hogan had, but he was lacking in a few areas. He could have been a fine top face for the company, but he would have never reached the heights Hogan did in that same spot.
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Post by gatekeeper on Mar 18, 2007 13:27:12 GMT -5
Hogan wouldn't allow it ? This post doesn't make sense, Baz. Hogan was fired by VKM's dad for making Rocky III when he was booked to wrestle and Hogan went to the AWA. My question was what if VKM got Dusty INSTEAD of Hogan? Pat Patterson said he had no doubt Dusty would've been able to get over like Hogan. I agree that Hogan had way more cross over ability. Dusty would've done very well, but not like Hogan. |
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Post by lordrahl on Mar 18, 2007 13:41:33 GMT -5
Not at Hogan's level. Could the WWF have done big things with Dusty? Sure...but it likely would be closer to JYD or the like than Hogan. Completely agree with this. Rahl |
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Post by Mark 138 on Mar 18, 2007 14:56:14 GMT -5
After long runs of rather non-descript champs like Sammartino and Backlund, Hogan was the guy with the size and the charisma to usher in the new era, even if he did suck in the ring. Only Flair had the look and the charisma to rival Hogan, but he would not have risen to Hogan's level of success in his best role as a heel. Kerry Von Erich had the look and the ability, but not the charisma. There's so much wrong with these statements that I barely know where to start. Someone else already tackeled the "Hogan sucked in the ring" nonsense. The fact is, Hogan was trained to wrestle, and well, but how silly would it be for a guy with his look and size trading hammerlocks and drop toeholds with Roddy Piper? It would've gotten over like a lead balloon. Hogan sold his opponent's offense, made people believe that maybe, just maybe, this horrible heel could get the better of the Hulkster, then fired back at JUST THE RIGHT TIME and in JUST THE RIGHT WAY to get the people on their feet. Backtrack to Bruno as a "non-descript champ". What? Bruno was THE MAN in his territory in his day. There wasn't anyone else to compare to him in his era. There was no colorful superhero character, and none was wanted nor needed. The people of the era wanted and got an ethnic hero of the people. Someone they could relate to. As times changed, the demand for what a champion should be changed. Bruno was the man for his time. If you'd have left that comment alone at "Backlund was a boring, non-descript champ", then you'd have been okay. Also, keep in mind that the title did not switch from Bruno to Backlund, there was a pretty long run by a pretty colorful guy in between. Now, Kerry had "no charisma". When Kerry had his head on straight, NO ONE had so much natural-born charisma and ability to instantly connect with a crowd. Kerry on drugs was a zombie but, on his game, he was something special. Go back and look at some World Class stuff from around 84-85 and tell me Kerry had no charisma. |
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Post by gatekeeper on Mar 18, 2007 15:12:35 GMT -5
Now, Kerry had "no charisma". When Kerry had his head on straight, NO ONE had so much natural-born charisma and ability to instantly connect with a crowd. Kerry on drugs was a zombie but, on his game, he was something special. Go back and look at some World Class stuff from around 84-85 and tell me Kerry had no charisma. I agreed with your post until this last part. I have watched a ton of WCCW back in the day when it was on ESPN. Kerry's appeal was in the fact that he had a great physique and that he was a face and was from Texas, where WCCW was based. He didn't have great charisma. He didn't need it really. There was no heel who had the kind of physique he had. Plus, he worked against Flair and P.S. Hayes, 2 of the most charismatic guys ever so maybe that hurt him a bit in that area. IDK. He put on great matches but I never thought he was overly charismatic. |
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Post by Mark 138 on Mar 18, 2007 16:13:28 GMT -5
Maybe the better way to phrase so that everyone is on the same page is to say Kerry had a charm that sort of transcended the ring. He wasn't a promo guy, and didn't have a flashy "character", but he had a way about him that people took to. Guys wanted to be like him and women were attracted to him. I don't think it was the physique, necissarily. David was the other Von Erich who had "it". Just an undefineable quality that made him a star, regardless of where he wrestled (and David was a hit outside of his father's territory, too).
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Post by Bazzy on Mar 18, 2007 22:01:01 GMT -5
Hogan's ego , would not of allowed Vince to push Dusty to the moon .
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Post by jefft on Apr 24, 2007 13:58:59 GMT -5
Hogan didn't suck in the ring. Not to mention the fact that when he wrestled in Japan, where the crowds wanted to see scientific matches, Hogan proved himself fairly proficient in that area anyway. Pretty solid scientific wrestler when he 'needed' to be. |
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Post by MikeMcKinney on Apr 24, 2007 14:22:35 GMT -5
Dusty would have fine in the WWE back then..but he would have NEVER been as big as Hogan. Nobody would have. Hogan just had IT.
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