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Post by Tournament Master on Oct 30, 2006 11:18:18 GMT -5
Without the Hogan of the 80's, there would be no Hollywood Hogan of the NWO. I go with Hogan of the 80's! Hogan is better than Flair. Period. Until recently, I was never impressed with Flair. Everyone made a huge deal about him in WCW/NWA. When he finally had his chance to shine in WWF (when he 1st entered) he stunk up the place (IMO) I saw some old NWA/WCW tapes and I was like...eh... While some of his matches were solid, not someone I can compare to Hulk Hogan, NWO or 80's. I think some technical wrestling marks just threw up all over their keyboards. |
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Post by bmurderh8s on Oct 30, 2006 11:41:05 GMT -5
Without the Hogan of the 80's, there would be no Hollywood Hogan of the NWO. I go with Hogan of the 80's! Hogan is better than Flair. Period. Until recently, I was never impressed with Flair. Everyone made a huge deal about him in WCW/NWA. When he finally had his chance to shine in WWF (when he 1st entered) he stunk up the place (IMO) I saw some old NWA/WCW tapes and I was like...eh... While some of his matches were solid, not someone I can compare to Hulk Hogan, NWO or 80's. I think some technical wrestling marks just threw up all over their keyboards. ouch. Character wise, I liked Hogan better then Flair...but as far as in ring ability. I think Flair was heads and shoulders above Hogan. |
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Post by Splattercat on Oct 30, 2006 20:33:22 GMT -5
Unless they were in Japan, then Hogan could match Flair hold for hold... To this day one of my favorite moments in Pro Wrestling was when Hollywood Hogan and Bret Hart wrestled for the first time...Everyone figured Bret would ruin him because he was heel Hogan, and there was no way he'd be able to keep up with The Hitman...The first 5 minutes of the match featured Hogan taking The Hitman to technical wrestling school....  |
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Post by bmurderh8s on Oct 31, 2006 11:19:15 GMT -5
Unless they were in Japan, then Hogan could match Flair hold for hold... To this day one of my favorite moments in Pro Wrestling was when Hollywood Hogan and Bret Hart wrestled for the first time...Everyone figured Bret would ruin him because he was heel Hogan, and there was no way he'd be able to keep up with The Hitman...The first 5 minutes of the match featured Hogan taking The Hitman to technical wrestling school.... My problem with Hollywood Hogan was during that time his matches were horrid. Especially that match between him and Sting. They spent all that time building up the match, and it turned out to be crap. CRAP! As far as Japan goes, Hogan made his name in America..thats how he'll always be looked at. A great character, a sub par wrestler. He dumbed down his in ring ability in America because he was lazy. He knew he could get away with it here in the states because American fans..are well..dumb. he could of wrestled amazing technical matches in America, and people in America would still consider him the greatest wrestler ever. He didn't have to dumb it down. He only did it because he could get away with it. |
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Post by Mike M on Oct 31, 2006 14:08:44 GMT -5
Unless they were in Japan, then Hogan could match Flair hold for hold... To this day one of my favorite moments in Pro Wrestling was when Hollywood Hogan and Bret Hart wrestled for the first time...Everyone figured Bret would ruin him because he was heel Hogan, and there was no way he'd be able to keep up with The Hitman...The first 5 minutes of the match featured Hogan taking The Hitman to technical wrestling school.... My problem with Hollywood Hogan was during that time his matches were horrid. Especially that match between him and Sting. They spent all that time building up the match, and it turned out to be crap. CRAP! As far as Japan goes, Hogan made his name in America..thats how he'll always be looked at. A great character, a sub par wrestler. He dumbed down his in ring ability in America because he was lazy. He knew he could get away with it here in the states because American fans..are well..dumb. he could of wrestled amazing technical matches in America, and people in America would still consider him the greatest wrestler ever. He didn't have to dumb it down. He only did it because he could get away with it. Umm.... giving the people what they WANT is a bad thing?  C'mon, DMK. I respect the fact that you don't like Hogan. My pal BigBri hates him, and we're still friends. But let's face it: better workrate does not equal better wrestler nor does it equal more entertaining. It may for you. That's fine. But at the end of the day, every promoter in the history of the business wants to put fannies in the seats, and have a star that keeps them coming back. Flair was great at this. Hogan was better. To the casual fan, "workrate" can be boring. I've had friends over to watch PPVs, and some of the "best" matches bored them to tears. But when Hogan comes out to "Real American" and dispatches Muhammed Hassan and Davari or RKO or whoever, the casual fan goes nuts. Whether it's "good workrate" or not, it's what people like and, more importantly, what they're willing to pay for. |
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Post by hofclemens on Nov 2, 2006 17:51:41 GMT -5
I chose 80's Hulk but I give him all the credit in the world for making both work.
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Post by tafkaga on Nov 2, 2006 18:48:30 GMT -5
Without the Hogan of the 80's, there would be no Hollywood Hogan of the NWO. I go with Hogan of the 80's! Hogan is better than Flair. Period. Until recently, I was never impressed with Flair. Everyone made a huge deal about him in WCW/NWA. When he finally had his chance to shine in WWF (when he 1st entered) he stunk up the place (IMO) I saw some old NWA/WCW tapes and I was like...eh... While some of his matches were solid, not someone I can compare to Hulk Hogan, NWO or 80's. Wow. See, I just can't understand this. I started watching wrestling in 1985. I watched both WWF and NWA, and today I've been buying a lot of the old tapes so I have a pretty respectable collection of both 80's WWF and NWA. Hogan was a very charismatic guy, but a lot of his iconic status is a result of his being in the right place, at the right time, with the right promoter. Hogan's popularity exploded in large part because he was a reflection of what society was looking for in a hero...much in the same way that Austin's popularity exploded in the late 90's. Hulk Hogan was a larger than life superhero-like character who had the look, the best music, and was fed a constant stream of heels for him to beat to prove how great he was. This is like 180 degrees the opposite of what Ric Flair was to the business. Ric Flair was the guy that people loved to hate. He was the quintessential wrestling champion in a day when wrestling was becoming more about big celebrities and big production value than it was about an actual quality in-ring product. Ric Flair had so many incredible matches in his day that I can't understand how anyone would watch him and say "bleh". I'm not going to tell anyone that they don't have a right to an opinion, but I can't object more strongly to the notion that Flair doesn't compare to Hogan. Flair was not only a great wrestler, a great interview, and a great champion...but he elevated so many other guys in the process of his title reigns. All Hogan ever did is devalue them because Hogan's success as a character was dependent on his being dominant and never losing. Flair could wrestle Rick Steamboat or Sting for an hour and regardless of who won, both guys came out smelling like roses and just as legitimate as they were before the match started. Hogan on the other hand squashed a guy in what as usually a crappy 10-15 minute match and then posed for another 10 minutes while the guy he just beat was either shipped out or stuck back down in the midcard. I don't get the whole notion that Ric Flair blew his chance to really shine when he went to WWF. Ric Flair was never used in the WWF like he was used in the NWA. Vince either didn't get it or he just had no intention of making Flair the star that he was in the NWA. I agree with you that when Flair went to WWF the magic was gone, but I don't blame that on Flair as much as I blame that on their use of him. It seemed to me that their main purpose for Flair in WWF was to put over guys like Piper, Hogan, and Savage. As you can probably tell Ric Flair is my favorite wrestler. I seriously have a hard time understanding how anyone could say they are not impressed with Flair's career unless they are basing it all on his run in the WWF or unless they consider the TNA X-Division to be great wrestling. It just blows my mind. But back to the point, Hogan 80's is no doubt my pick. No doubt he's the biggest Icon in business, even if Ric Flair is better. |
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Post by gatekeeper on Nov 2, 2006 20:01:13 GMT -5
Ric Flair was the first guy to win the Royal Rumble and become WWF Champion. That is historic. He had some great matches with Piper, Savage, Bret Hart and others.
He was also used as a player in the Warrior-Savage match at SS in Wembley Stadium.
I think Vince did a great job using him. He was always in the main events and around the title or in storylines with big name guys.
And, Vince can push a guy all he wants but if the fans don't buy into it, it won't work. So, you can't dismiss what Hogan did. It wasn't just because Vince decided to make him this great face, Hogan had to do the selling and the fans had to buy it, and it worked.
VKM tried to do that with Warrior and it didn't work, at least not in t he long run.
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Post by Omen on Nov 2, 2006 20:08:30 GMT -5
It was never Hogan vs. Flair ...It was McMahon over Turner...that is why Flair came to WWF...and when Turner flashed the green McMahon could not compete...
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Post by gwffantrav on Nov 2, 2006 23:22:02 GMT -5
It was never Hogan vs. Flair ...It was McMahon over Turner...that is why Flair came to WWF...and when Turner flashed the green McMahon could not compete... Technically, when Turner flashed the green, he still didn't compete. He bought the company, I think in late 88, and those deep pockets didn't put a dent in McMahon's WWF, even in a time when the WWF was wayyy down and McMahon was in the midst of the steriod accusations. While Bischoff took Turner's money, and by then it was more corporate Time Warner money...but it took Bischoff's vision for the future for WCW to even compete. |
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Post by daytondave on Nov 2, 2006 23:50:26 GMT -5
Neither, thank you.
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Post by tafkaga on Nov 3, 2006 0:53:23 GMT -5
It was never Hogan vs. Flair ...It was McMahon over Turner...that is why Flair came to WWF...and when Turner flashed the green McMahon could not compete... Technically, when Turner flashed the green, he still didn't compete. He bought the company, I think in late 88, and those deep pockets didn't put a dent in McMahon's WWF, even in a time when the WWF was wayyy down and McMahon was in the midst of the steriod accusations. While Bischoff took Turner's money, and by then it was more corporate Time Warner money...but it took Bischoff's vision for the future for WCW to even compete. He's referring to how McMahon couldn't compete with Turner in terms of keeping Flair around, I think. I always heard that Flair left because McMahon said he didn't have any further plans for him. I realize McMahon is a genius in some areas, but McMahon did not know how to use Flair. Flair won the 92 Rumble and worked a great feud with Savage, but beyond that he was a shell of what he was in the NWA. That's not because Flair couldn't still cut it... it's because they altered his character and didn't know how to use him to his potential. |
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Post by gwffantrav on Nov 3, 2006 1:21:24 GMT -5
I may have misread that...you could be right
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Post by tafkaga on Nov 3, 2006 1:40:49 GMT -5
I may have misread that...you could be right I only say that because we were talking about it in the chat room earlier today, which by the way you should come hang out in some time. |
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Post by gwffantrav on Nov 3, 2006 2:23:38 GMT -5
I may have misread that...you could be right I only say that because we were talking about it in the chat room earlier today, which by the way you should come hang out in some time. I was the other night. Jon and myself had a nice conversation about bootlegs. But I work nights, so I just get to post on the boards at nights when between stuff. I don't know if I could chat all night.!!!  |
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Post by Splattercat on Nov 3, 2006 11:26:50 GMT -5
HEY..!! Just want to chime in here and say that having threads hijacked is a common occurance (especially recently )...But I'll be DARNED if I'm going to let it happen to a Hogan thread..!! Stay on topic you two, this is your only warning..!!!  |
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Post by Splattercat on Nov 3, 2006 11:27:29 GMT -5
Hehe...Right when I pressed "Post Reply" I realized I'd commited a ban-worthy trespass...Remind me, is it alright to kid about such things..? If not, erm.....Oops....? EDIT: Sweet, apparently acting like a mod isn't a CoC breach...... Umm....Although i can't say the same about saying that sentence out loud...  |
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Post by Omen on Nov 4, 2006 1:02:17 GMT -5
Thanks taf...It was in reference to the Flair issue...BTW...Comparing Flair and Hogan is like apples and oranges...They did the same thing differently...Hogans style just fit McMahons way better...McMahon had one of the best wrestlers in the biz..with Bruno Sammartino but Bruno did not fit well after Vince Jr. took over the CO....Then the whole way of thinking about the biz changed...until we have what it is today...
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Post by GOODZILLA on Nov 4, 2006 1:05:49 GMT -5
Comparing Flair and Hogan is like apples and oranges "it's like comparing ice cream to horse manure." |
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Post by PureHatred on Nov 4, 2006 1:07:38 GMT -5
Comparing Flair and Hogan is like apples and oranges "it's like comparing ice cream to horse manure." Spoken like someone who doesn't know a goddamned thing about pro wrestling. |
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