|
|
Post by Chris Ingersoll on Aug 24, 2006 12:40:41 GMT -5
Nothing, except maybe a tradition called "passing the torch". If Umaga is going to be WWE/RAW's resident monster, then I can't think of a more fitting way to symbolize this.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris Ingersoll on Aug 24, 2006 12:43:48 GMT -5
Raw rating from Monday was a 4.1. For what it;'s worth. What does that have to do with this thread? |
|
|
|
Post by Splattercat on Aug 24, 2006 12:45:02 GMT -5
Nothing, except maybe a tradition called "passing the torch". If Umaga is going to be WWE/RAW's resident monster, then I can't think of a more fitting way to symbolize this. Well, we'll see how it goes...If he gets squashed that's it for me and Raw... |
|
|
|
Post by bmurderh8s on Aug 24, 2006 13:27:19 GMT -5
I've noticed, and maybe I'm really off base here, but recently after some of Umaga's "big" wins on RAW the fans have been pretty silent. Now some might argue that thats not the fans not caring, but instead the fans giving a stunned reaction. Umaga';s streak has been going now for a little while, don't you think by this point the fans would be giving him some sort of a reaction after he beats guys like HHH, Shawn Michaels and Kane? I honestly don't think he's that over with the fans, and I'm personally not a fan. His particlar character plays more to younger fans then it does to the 18-35 demographic.
I'll take Samoa Joe's "Fake" streak over Umaga's any day. Just because MacMahon is pushing the crap out of this guy doesn't make him a good draw or even that entertaining. I say let him lose to Kane and dump him. I'm tired of the guys fake paint, his boring, slow matches, and his overall 90's gimmick. I'd rather see the Ultimate Warrior. At least when he cuts an assanine promo its somewhat entertaining.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris Ingersoll on Aug 24, 2006 13:49:08 GMT -5
Nothing, except maybe a tradition called "passing the torch". If Umaga is going to be WWE/RAW's resident monster, then I can't think of a more fitting way to symbolize this. Well, we'll see how it goes...If he gets squashed that's it for me and Raw... I highly doubt it will be an outright squash. |
|
|
|
Post by swarm on Aug 24, 2006 15:43:20 GMT -5
4wiw, Kane was offered the job as the guy who finally ends the UT WM streak and he declined, instead saying that honor needed to go to a younger up and comer, much like Umaga...
Kane is a class act, and no doubt sees as much potential in Umaga as Vince, as I, and as the fans who have been contributing to RAW's strong ratings lately...
Fake paint? huh?
Anyways, I wouldn't be surprised if Umaga takes the title eventually...maybe he'll be a transitional champion, but a champion nonetheless.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris Ingersoll on Aug 24, 2006 20:35:17 GMT -5
If he gets a 24-hour reign, his tranformation into "the replacement Kane" will be complete.  |
|
|
|
Post by incognito on Aug 24, 2006 21:59:21 GMT -5
Originally, I was going to say Umaga, the WWE has a higher talent level with Cena, Edge, HHH, Shawn Michaels, Batista, etc all capable of ending his streak. Wear as in TNA their is only one right now who could end it, but that one is JJ. And much like a rhino whenever someone starts to catch fire he'll be there to stomp it out. In the end Joe loses to something bigger than he is... JJ's ego.
How long are their respective streaks anyways? Are either of them encroaching on Goldberg's alleged number?
|
|
|
|
Post by Splattercat on Aug 25, 2006 1:12:17 GMT -5
Hell no...Goldberg went 173-0, and he was on 2 Shows every week....
If Umaga competes in a match 4.5 times per month (4 Mondays Plus bi-monthly PPVs) he will match Goldberg's record approximately late July-Early August 2009...
This is math I'm doing off the top of my head, so anyone ambitious enough can do a more thorough calculation...
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris Ingersoll on Aug 25, 2006 8:37:13 GMT -5
Not worth the effort, since house shows should count, too. That's waaaaaay more research than this topic deserves.
|
|
|
|
Post by JED-SE on Aug 25, 2006 8:58:34 GMT -5
These undefeated streaks eventually end. They will never last forever. From Mr Perfect and his "Perfect Record" and The "Undefeated Native American" Tatanka, Goldberg, and Lesnar. The longer they are around, the more likely they are going to lose. Sometimes they don't lose until they get a title. In both cases, Joe will lose first. Joe has been undefeated longer. Also, Joe is closer to becoming TNA champ than Umaga is to becoming WWE or World Heavyweight Champ.
|
|
|
|
Post by Splattercat on Aug 25, 2006 10:02:05 GMT -5
Not worth the effort, since house shows should count, too. That's waaaaaay more research than this topic deserves. Well, seeing as how they run 3 house shows a week (I believe), you can assume 3 different numbers for Umaga: 12.5 shows per month (Raw, 2 house shows per week, Bi-monthly PPV): 173-0 around May 2007 8.5 shows per month (Raw, 1 house show per week, Bi-monthlyPPV): 173-0 around December 2007 The third number is more benefit of the doubt...Meaning, it's unlikely that Umaga will ever actually COMPETE (and so far hasn't) on every House show and Raw and PPV, so we'll just use my original number and assume the missed Raw and PPVs will be balanced out by the odd house show match: 4.5 shows per month (Raw, bi-monthly PPV): 173-0 around July 2009 So...Best case scenario Umaga has to work himself to death to beat Goldberg's streak by next May (I think it's safe to assume he can't work 4 shows per week)... |
|
|
|
Post by swarm on Aug 25, 2006 11:17:29 GMT -5
eh, Umaga's undefeated streak is already more impressive than Goldberg's by a mile...
Goldberg squashed a bunch of losers on house shows then lost to Kevin Nash...
Umaga beat Cena, HBK, and HHH 3 weeks in a row.
There is no comparison.
Umaga's streak > Goldberg's streak
|
|
|
|
Post by ChrisD on Aug 25, 2006 11:23:38 GMT -5
Plus, remember that Goldberg's 173 was made up. His number kept jumping ridiculous amounts.
I think Joe's will end first, since I figure he'll lose a tag match or such on his way to winning the title fairly soon...while Umaga's going to keep going into November, and probably get pinned during a Survivor Series match v dX.
|
|
|
|
Post by canadianpittbull on Aug 25, 2006 11:43:24 GMT -5
This topic is redundant and a lame one anyways Since the Samoan debate was done HOW LONG AGO. How about not cluttering the boards with the same conversations with a different name. Call it what you will it is still a Great Samoan Debate.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris Ingersoll on Aug 25, 2006 13:31:48 GMT -5
I think Joe's will end first, since I figure he'll lose a tag match or such on his way to winning the title fairly soon...while Umaga's going to keep going into November, and probably get pinned during a Survivor Series match v dX. Losing a tag match shouldn't count any more than not winning a battle royale counts. Given that he's only apparently "lost" in a triple threat match, I would still consider Joe undefeated in TNA as well. But I'm somewhat biased in this case, as I personally hate any multiple-participant matches that don't follow elimination rules. Three-way dances (triple threat elimination) were ECW's best offering to wrestling, IMO -- and now they don't even use them. |
|
|
|
Post by swarm on Aug 25, 2006 14:36:54 GMT -5
This topic is redundant and a lame one anyways Since the Samoan debate was done HOW LONG AGO. How about not cluttering the boards with the same conversations with a different name. Call it what you will it is still a Great Samoan Debate. 2 1/2 days... 270 + views... 3 pages... the hottest "pro wres poll" going today... stop hating. |
|
|
|
Post by Splattercat on Aug 25, 2006 14:49:34 GMT -5
Don't forget "Attempt 6 to reignite the discussion"... The fact that All three of Umaga's vaunted wins were loaded takes away from his awesome streak...Goldberg beat Raven+5 other guys for the US title...He beat Hogan+5 other guys for the World Title, which he held for 5 months...The big thing though is that he never had help...Triple H, Michaels and Cena all got beat by the Spirit Squad in previous weeks... Flock > Spirit Squad NWO >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Spirit Squad... |
|
|
|
Post by swarm on Aug 25, 2006 15:21:33 GMT -5
The fact that All three of Umaga's vaunted wins were loaded takes away from his awesome streak... no, no it doesn't. wrestling is fake. all bad guys cheat. That's how you know they're the bad guys. please see: Ric Flair Ric Flair > any heel ever + cheated ALL THE TIME + won 16 World Championships x Splattercats's theory = Ric Flair crappiest World Champion of all time =  it's not that complicated... John Cena and HHH are arguably the two biggest stars in the entire industry today. HBK is a living legend and one of the most decorated fighters in WWF/E history. Umaga beat all of them in 3 straight weeks. I don't remember anything being taken away from Andre the Giant or The Undertaker when they cheated to beat Hulk Hogan, just like there is nothing being taken away (quite the opposite in fact) from Umaga's streak they he cheated to beat all 3 guys. When he beats Kane, he will have taken down 99% of RAW's top guys, one by one, and will have cemented himself as the "next big thing" that he is, no doubt paving a long and awesome path toward a WWE Championship that I will thoroughly enjoy each and every second of... Umaga = Champion |
|
|
|
Post by Talison on Aug 25, 2006 16:34:37 GMT -5
Well, I don't need Splattercat's theory to think Flair is one of the worst World Champions of all time, but that's another story.
I don't even think TNA is still calling Joe undefeated, just that he has never been pinned or submitted. More specifically that he has never been pinned or submitted in TNA, as his wrestling in ROH is pretty common knowledge and TNA doesn't ignore people's pasts outright. It's not about Joe's win loss record (which is MUCH greater than 0-2 in TNA) it's about no one in TNA having put his shoulders down for the three or made him say "I give up."
Heel or no, I do think it tarnishes Umaga that much of his wins come by lots of interference. Joe was a heel to begin with in TNA. He's a tweener at best now even though in the last month or so he's stopped fighting faces. He still made his record against mostly faces. AJ Styles, Christopher Daniels, Jushin Liger.
Both have beaten no names or local guys on TV, both have beaten big names in their company.
To my point of view Joe is about being a hard nose grappler who hasn't been pinned. Umaga is about being a gimmick that has a perfect record.
Umaga has been better lately, I liked 3 Minute Warning, I think he has some ability, but in my opinion his gimmick is just so stupid. And don't get me started on his manager.
It's the same thing with The Spirit Squad. All great athletes and performers, horrible gimmick.
I will admit his super Samoan Spike on Michaels was damn cool.
But the first time I saw Joe wrestle he amazed me and he's continued to do so. Not a long list of guys I can say that about.
As far as who'll loose first; probably Joe since he's been doing it longer. Not even a fair comparison as they didn't start at the same time. But then WWE's last few undefeated streaks have ended rather unceremoniously, so it's hard to predict Vince. Personally, as a life long fan, I think there's nothing better either of them can do then to get the first loss out of the way.
|
|
