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Post by Holland227 on Jan 19, 2007 22:44:54 GMT -5
The state of Filsingergames has already been determined and alas there is not a thing anyone can do about it. The problem is that Tom, who I have a lot of respect for as a game maker and an all around great person to talk with, has the same envisions other business men have, and that is to make money. The thing about it is that when you let communities go into ruin like Tom has by not expressing his true feelings about the community then it leads to the degenerate places we visit on a daily basis. Now the problem is that the Deuce Exclusives are out of this for the simple fact that they are Deuce Exclusives. When I made the Deuce I made it to get some attention to the community that was much needed. I didn't want a split board, I wanted people to get along but the forces in the world state that certain people will not get along and that is what happened here. Now is there a solution.... yes there is. Is this solution obtainable.... yes it is. Now how is this solution obtained, very simple you might say. Tom MUST step in his rightful place as spokesman for this product and tell the community that the High School bickering can not and will not be tolerated. A good business man is only as good as the patrons he gets. Now in gaming and wrestling just like all things around the world fighting will ensue. It is just a fact of life that we all learned early in our years. However we should have learned by now what fighting gets us. Absolutely nothing. The problem is that when you jump into a fight it is hard to back down from what you feel is right and now you are a part of the problem not the solution. I did this myself when I defended Neil on Chris's boards. I felt that the badgering of Neil had gone far enough but I guess it hadn't. When I stuck my neck out, only to get it sliced from ear to ear, I continued my quest but in the process lost a friend in Neil who couldn't even back me up for standing up to him. That is the problem with this community. Nothing can seem to be solved. This in reality will slowly kill the Filsinger Gaming Community that even an online game will not be enough to save a lot of potential customers who can easily make their own bootlegs using Tom's system and never drop him a dime. Now this is a painful reality amongst the community because we have seen this happen where people do not buy Tom's products, make bootlegs based on his creation, gives him credit on the game design, and makes good money. Bad for business I would say. Now lets look into a deep issue of players leaving the game for good. There have been several online auctions and threads from people selling their game off and walking away because of the community. This needs to end but no one is willing to step up and put an end to it. It is sad because the first time I found this game and went to The Filsinger Community boards I was in heaven. People who loved wrestling and gaming in the same area with a common bond with a stellar game, wow! Now those days are gone, replaced with roaming the message boards checking threads and looking out for what I type because some guy is gonna troll the boards looking for one spelling error to jump on and badger me over. Thanks for the cool area to be beat down in. Thanks to the moderators of the community for taking a stand and no thanks to the moderators of the community for sitting on their hands. The Filsinger Games were fun while they lasted and will continue to make my life fun, but the community has turned me out.
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Post by bmurderh8s on Jan 19, 2007 23:00:41 GMT -5
This may surprise you, but this fighting amongst the community, it's really nothing new. When I came online in 98 it was present on the old GWF guestbook. Back then it was between hardcore bootleggers and the by the book players. It seems to come and go.
As far as Tom interjecting goes, thats just not a realistic thing. Tom has no real control over the community. Tom has stated before that he dislikes the fighting, which is what led to the old guestbook being taken down. These boards, are home grown and promoter operated, Tom has no power over them. Not to mention he has a marriage, children and a full time job to worry about. Do you think he has time to babysit us?
Believe it or not, the fighting hasn't seemed to ruin Tom's sales. The state of wrestling seems to be the main factor in the sales of COTG and LoW.
I don't know a single promoter who uses bootlegs who hasn't at one point or another paid for Tom's game. I'm not sure whether or not your making a indictment against bootleggers here. I hope you aren't.
Unfortunately the fighting will probably never completely go away. Ego's clash, opinions clash, and well, disagreements spring up and people don't get along. It's all about being able to co exist, something that I myself have been able to do all these years with little difficulty. Eveybody who is part of this comunity should be able to do the same. And if they can't, well, then they should leave I guess.
It really makes no sense in the long run..all of this. The board split...the fighting...none of it. But thats what happens..deal with it and enjoy the game. There is no law that says you need to enjoy the community to enjoy the game, even though the community is a big part of the long term success of COTG.
I have a feeling this post will end up doing more harm then good...
I'm crossing my fingers.
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Post by Holland227 on Jan 19, 2007 23:05:39 GMT -5
I in no way hate bootleggers as I feel it is a good part of the community.
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Post by steelthunder814 on Jan 19, 2007 23:13:37 GMT -5
I am bootlegger and proud of it...it's not set in stone tablets read by Moses on Mt.Sinai "Thou shall not bootleg wrestlers for GWF/LOW/ACE/CPC" Tom gives the promoter a lot of flexibilty hell he sells create at a card in the catalogue so that should tell ya something
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Post by blueraider2 on Jan 20, 2007 6:34:42 GMT -5
what do you want? a gold medal god.i had the thread locked.i sent a pm saying thanks on both boards.i got a pm from you(a nasty one imo)some of the teasers sent me pms saying there sorry(no names but i did get them and one on deuce no names of course.)i was just ignoring the teasers.sorry you feel this way bub.
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Post by dukedave on Jan 20, 2007 7:00:50 GMT -5
The board that you want is not one that many would want to be on. You basic want everyone to have the same vanilla sugary coated attitude. However, when you decide to go off though it is OK because you are defending all that is good in the world. And as defender of all is good in the world you go out and send people nasty PM's. You set such a good example.
People are going to disagree and some people are going to go too far. If you look at messages boards elsewhere they are all the same. The boards are like bars where people go to hang out and discuss things and not everyone has to agree on the discussion at hand. People are allowed to have strong opinions. If you are wanting a bland board, no one would go.
POSTER 1 - I like wrestling
POSTER 2 - Yeah, me too
POSTER 1 - Cool
The would be really thought provoking.
PS- If anyone ever attacks me Holland, don't defend me. I'ma big boy, I'll take care of myself. I can respond back or ignore the person it's really not that hard.
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Post by Holland227 on Jan 20, 2007 9:00:14 GMT -5
Listen I don't want people to get upset at me for my post. I do not mean any harm by posting this. I didnt feel the PM I sent to Neil was nasty and I apologize to him if he feels that way. I was just frustrated that I stuck my neck out there. I didn't at any time want to lose a friend in Neil who I feel is a great guy. I also want it to be known that I do not want the same Vanilla sugary attitude. I just feel the petty bickering could go without. I think that was the main purpose of the post. I think the part with Tom is something that I feel strongly about and kinda went out of line with it. Like I told Tom when I sent him a message about this, I told him I do not hold him or any certain people responsible, but I hold us all responsible as a community myself espically included because I would not single just one out but all of us. Also the defense of Neil was not just defense out of nowhere but from chatroom logs and other things posted that stated Neil really didn't like it. I was just trying to put that out there so it was known. And that is the kind of guy Neil is. He doesn't want to hurt people. He is a mellow guy and that is respectable.
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Post by Holland227 on Jan 20, 2007 9:01:50 GMT -5
I am bootlegger and proud of it...it's not set in stone tablets read by Moses on Mt.Sinai "Thou shall not bootleg wrestlers for GWF/LOW/ACE/CPC" Tom gives the promoter a lot of flexibilty hell he sells create at a card in the catalogue so that should tell ya something Also wanted to restate that I do not dislike bootleggers, I bootleg myself. I think that part of my post was directed to some people I see out there that bootleg everything and do not buy much Filsinger gaming items. I in no way am bashing bootlegging. |
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Post by offspring515 on Jan 20, 2007 10:12:23 GMT -5
Holland, I think that maybe you, and some other people, are taking this stuff way too seriously. Somehow petty, online bickering (which happens EVERYWHERE in some form) has become a major issue.
So now we have the board split, and dramatic posts like this looking for a call to action! But really...it's too much. We're talking about a paper and dice wrestling game....and a bunch of nerds (myself and all of you reading this included) who play it. It's not life or death stuff.
Maybe anyone who is getting this caught up in it needs to take a step back, chill out, and put this whole damn thing lower on your priority list.
Just my opinion.
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Post by dukedave on Jan 20, 2007 11:14:00 GMT -5
Holland, I think that maybe you, and some other people, are taking this stuff way too seriously. Somehow petty, online bickering (which happens EVERYWHERE in some form) has become a major issue. So now we have the board split, and dramatic posts like this looking for a call to action! But really...it's too much. We're talking about a paper and dice wrestling game....and a bunch of nerds (myself and all of you reading this included) who play it. It's not life or death stuff. Maybe anyone who is getting this caught up in it needs to take a step back, chill out, and put this whole damn thing lower on your priority list. Just my opinion. Well said |
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Post by Eliath on Jan 20, 2007 12:15:50 GMT -5
Well, let me begin by saying that I re-began playing Champions of the Galaxy about 2 months ago when I happened upon the Filsinger Games website and by chance this message board. I immedately met some strong opinioned people that, in my opinion, were being a bit overbearing in their appraoch on the boards (you can read that as "Swarm" and "Payback" I have no issue with them or anyone else knowing.) At one point I decided to share my Yoda bootleg and really got ripped up about it for various reasons, some valid, some not in my opinion. However, I did not go off and start another message board because of it. I have an equally overbearing opinon of things just like Swarm and Payback and everyone else on this board...sometimes I voice it, sometimes it is just better to keep my opinion to myself. I have visited the Deuce and read some of the posts there, I can tell you that there is definately a different feeling on those boards than there is here...more welcoming and more community like...but I have yet to ask for an account there. Why? This site, in my opinion, IS the community. From what I have read from posts on this board, and I know absolutely nothing about it, somebody got mad at presumably Swarm, and went off to start their own message board to get away from him. If I am wrong, I apologize. Seriously though, THAT is where the high school drama began. Sometimes I don't like how Swarm says some things to people, but you know what, that is Swarm and that's STRONG. People will always have differing opinions and approaches, this is an online community and truthfully, we are all family in that we all play the same game...Why don't you Holland be the bigger man and come back to this board and close the Deuce down..YOU reunite the community that you so obviously want to heal. Do not come on this board and post something like you did and NOT expect anyone to take it personal or become offended by it..it offends me and I am only a new player with a strong opinion. I will only carry on my "Dad" mantle for one more little piece of insight:
Holland, you are the one that fractured the community, no matter the circumstances involved, it is only you who can heal it. Be a man and step up to that fact.
Eliath
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Post by GOODZILLA on Jan 20, 2007 12:39:50 GMT -5
Wow. Eliath throwing down the guantlet. Good job bro. The thing is, I think things have actually been a little better since the split. There isn't nearly as much drama going on. There are people that are much happier over there, and there are people here that are happier to not have those folks around. I have friends on both boards so I post on both. But there are some people that left these boards that are now complaining about the other boards, and those are the people that I think have caused all the problems. Some people just always want to play the "victim" role and feel sorry for themselves. And they expect everyone else to feel sorry for them, and when no one takes the bait they want to cause a scene. I think this is the reason that the sonofthread chatroom is now closed. It was nice having that community chat about COTGonline the other night, because for one night we were all back to being a civil community again. The focus was back on the game, like it should be. And that my friends is the moral of this story. Not sure if I made any valid points, but that's pretty much all I have to say about the matter.  |
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Post by GOODZILLA on Jan 20, 2007 12:58:31 GMT -5
Also, just wanted to add that it almost comes across like you were blaming Tom for all the petty bullshit that happens on these boards. Brandon said it best that Tom doesn't have time to worry about peoples feelings getting hurt if someone doesn't like the same wrestling fed as them, or if someone posts a bootleg creation that not everyone likes. Nor should he care.
I know I don't. I post a lot of my bootlegs on these boards and you guys are free to praise them or trash them all you want. I'm not gonna stop either way.
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Post by gatekeeper on Jan 20, 2007 13:11:48 GMT -5
Eliath with one of the best posts, ever! I couldn't agree more.
Tom does not HAVE to step in and get involved when some people get into little scuffles on the board.
We're all (well most of us) adults and should be able to handle our own problems. The biggest problem of which is that this is a place where we type stuff on a computer and not face-to-face interaction.
I've been to every GalactiCon since 1999 and Swarm has been to more than I and he (nor I) has never had an issue with anyone there.
Behind the computer and the written text, it's hard to infer tone sometimes which leads to these squabbles.
Everyone just chill and be able to handle when someone disagrees with you.
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Post by GOODZILLA on Jan 20, 2007 13:27:07 GMT -5
And now for something completely original ...... This thread can only end in ....  Edit: My scanner is broken, so I couldn't scan in my Tragedy card.  |
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Post by Holland227 on Jan 20, 2007 14:05:07 GMT -5
Well, let me begin by saying that I re-began playing Champions of the Galaxy about 2 months ago when I happened upon the Filsinger Games website and by chance this message board. I immedately met some strong opinioned people that, in my opinion, were being a bit overbearing in their appraoch on the boards (you can read that as "Swarm" and "Payback" I have no issue with them or anyone else knowing.) At one point I decided to share my Yoda bootleg and really got ripped up about it for various reasons, some valid, some not in my opinion. However, I did not go off and start another message board because of it. I have an equally overbearing opinon of things just like Swarm and Payback and everyone else on this board...sometimes I voice it, sometimes it is just better to keep my opinion to myself. I have visited the Deuce and read some of the posts there, I can tell you that there is definately a different feeling on those boards than there is here...more welcoming and more community like...but I have yet to ask for an account there. Why? This site, in my opinion, IS the community. From what I have read from posts on this board, and I know absolutely nothing about it, somebody got mad at presumably Swarm, and went off to start their own message board to get away from him. If I am wrong, I apologize. Seriously though, THAT is where the high school drama began. Sometimes I don't like how Swarm says some things to people, but you know what, that is Swarm and that's STRONG. People will always have differing opinions and approaches, this is an online community and truthfully, we are all family in that we all play the same game...Why don't you Holland be the bigger man and come back to this board and close the Deuce down..YOU reunite the community that you so obviously want to heal. Do not come on this board and post something like you did and NOT expect anyone to take it personal or become offended by it..it offends me and I am only a new player with a strong opinion. I will only carry on my "Dad" mantle for one more little piece of insight: Holland, you are the one that fractured the community, no matter the circumstances involved, it is only you who can heal it. Be a man and step up to that fact. Eliath I don't think I fractured the community but I think I helped it by creating the deuce. The Deuce made a place for people who were leaving the game forever to come and stay and kept them around. I would like this community to heal. As for Tom I just think that I went off on my own thoughts more there than what should have been posted and I PM'ed Tom letting him know that so I hope he got it and we are cool. |
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Post by GOODZILLA on Jan 20, 2007 14:15:02 GMT -5
I have an equally overbearing opinon of things just like Swarm and Payback and everyone else on this board...sometimes I voice it, sometimes it is just better to keep my opinion to myself. Man, why is it that Matt never gets mentioned? Is he not carrying his weight in the Motor City Posse? |
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Post by Joe on Jan 20, 2007 14:43:18 GMT -5
The whole idea that a second board needed to be created because a few people, one of whom can be seen as a sad person desperately in search of attention and/ or sympathy (Tafkaga) and another who is as hotheaded as the person he despises(Canadian Pittbull), could no longer tolerate the thoughts of a member here (Swarm) is beyond ridiculous.
It has to be one of the moronic things I have ever heard of, bar none.
The fact that a member of this board would leave this board and join the Deuce simply so he has a place to start thread after thread advertising a wrestling show, heap insane amounts of praise on said program, and have no one question his opinion is crazy.
Seriously, I would like everyone to go to the Deuce when you are through reading this post and look at Crimson Cross' threads in the TNA section. He pushes the product as if he had stock in it. Most of the threads are lifted directly from TNA's website and offer nothing more than hype from the company followed by his verbal masturbation of the writers, wrestlers and bookers of TNA.
And they get little response.
Hopefully someone can explain to me what is good about a discussion community in which there is very little actual discussion.
Next, I would like to briefly address Holland's frustration with the fact that Neil did not put his two lips together and kiss his ass following his "defense" of Neil in a thread a few days ago.
The post in which Holland "sticks his neck out for Neil" contains points in which Holland compares Neil's penchant for writing short sentences with no capital letters to the problems of an alcoholic or a person with a speech impediment. He followed these thoughts up by making several homophobic remarks about various members of this community.
Let me get this straight: You compared Neily to a fall-down lush and you don't get why he was pissed at you. Then you slur people he's cool with by talking about them picking up male prostitutes on street corners and you don't understand why he might not appreciate the comments.
Come on, Holland, surely you are not seeing things from that one-sided of a perspective are you?
Finally, the suggestion that Tom step in and halt all the bickering is silly.
Since we are making suggestions for people, I have one for Holland. As has already been said, you fractured the community, you fix it. You could probably bring a little unity to this community. I don't have a personal problem with anyone on either board, but I disagree with them about some things. If people here cannot coexist with others that have different opinions, they need to be spending more time in counseling and less time on the Internet.
The second half of my suggestion for Holland is if he has no interest in helping mend the community, why not just leave this board entirely. He created his own board, and has shown in recent posts he has no use for the moderators or the members who are exclusive to this board, so why keep coming around?
The ball is in your court, Holland. Do with it what you will.
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Post by Eliath on Jan 20, 2007 14:52:46 GMT -5
Okay, let me give you my take as a new player coming to this forum for the first time: I discover that there are two boards that serve the same purpose in this community. Why? Do you not realize that when Osk & BDS made the CotGonline Q&A posts they had to post in 2 places? How silly is that? I think it is great you went off and created a new place for all the people who were leaving the game (again presumably because of Swarm) to hang out and stay together. You should be commended for creating a new fan site that others enjoy. But that is exactly what it is, a fansite. The CotG Community represtents ALL of us, including Swarm. It doesn't matter if you ran away to get away from him, he is still a big part of the community that you still belong to. You can wear your rose colored glasses and believe that you didn't fracture the community all you want but you didn't save anything really. If Swarm or the things he says have the power over someone to chase them from this game or community forever, then honestly, good riddance. Opinions are like buttholes (edited so that WTIC won't have to ) everybody has one, but some stink more than others. Where you went wrong, was thinking that another place would be exactly what the community needed. Wrong. What the community needs is a strong, united front, where everyone comes together for the one and only reason we are all here: Champions of the Galaxy / Legends of Wrestling. Period. You come on this board and your name says it proudly: "Founder of the Deuce" that makes you responsible in my book. No matter the reasons you and everyone else left, the community is fractured, not whole, because you and everyone else that participates on the Deuce and not here are absent from this place. Its great that you opened a new home and wish it to be part of the community of Champions of the Galaxy, but DO NOT come on this board and blather on about the State of Filsinger Games because the community is immersed in dramatic bologna and Tom should do something about it...No, YOU do something about it. Bring yourself back into this community and face the issue. If you don't like what Swarm has to say: ignore it. But he isn't going anywhere. He is doing a fantastic job furthering this game with Promoter Madness. What are you doing to further it besides driving the wedge further into the split? Everyone must learn to be adults here, your solution obviously, was to go elsewhere. If that is really what you think is best then by all means, go away. But stop this cross posting b.s. between the boards. The State of Filsinger Games? Looks pretty good to me at this point. I will still make my game purchases regardless if you are on this site or not. Just my opinion. Take it for what it is. Eliath |
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Post by Eliath on Jan 20, 2007 14:55:50 GMT -5
I have an equally overbearing opinon of things just like Swarm and Payback and everyone else on this board...sometimes I voice it, sometimes it is just better to keep my opinion to myself. Man, why is it that Matt never gets mentioned? Is he not carrying his weight in the Motor City Posse? Matt has not shared his opinion about any of my stuff..so I have no opinion about him at this time. Nothing personal Matt, just speaking about what I know. |
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