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Post by gwffantrav on Apr 21, 2006 1:30:29 GMT -5
Joe may be able to elaborate on this as well, since he lives in Kentucky like me. But the last two days, it really shows that we are living in a bizzaro world. Here are just a few of the insane things that's happened in KY in the last few days. First, there was a story that came out (and this is actually a national story), but it was in our paper. If students are caught with drugs (and basically are convicted of it...it sounds like if they complete a program they have a 2nd chance), but they stand the chance to lose their financial aid, grants, etc., basically any federal money. There were actually students complaining about this, saying if this happens, how will they pay for school!?? Am I missing something??? Granted, I've never drank, did drugs, smoked....but isn't this illegal (drugs)? And this is a tiny minority this would effect, but having people complain....what am I missing? Is it because I've missed out participating in the wonderful world of drugs?  www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060418/NEWS0104/604180358&SearchID=7324228911909The second...there was a guy named Henry Wallace who died at the age of 90. He had this huge thing of land and developed it into a big petting zoo complete with camels, buffalo, llamas, zebras....but he's a huge communist! They made no bones about it in the paper and even reported he was a big activist for Cuba during the Cuban Revolution against the US. But the paper reports it like he's a great gentleman... Is it really OK to be celebrating a self proclaimed Communist?!?!  www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060420/NEWS01/604200380Third, there is a student at Cumberland College, a private CHRISTIAN college in Kentucky who was kicked out of school for being gay. They found out due to his posting this on myspace.com. This may sound "disturbing", but there is actually a sexual conduct policy that prohibits this. But this is a private college and people know these rules coming in, so why is there outrage? I'm going to be honest and say I really feel for gay people and can't imagine most people choose to live a lifestyle that can case them to be ostracized from family, friends, etc. But I'm sure the majority are actually born gay (to be honest, I'd say 75%...I'd say the other 25% depends of lifestyle choice, trying to fit in, unfortunate event of some kind of sexual practice on them while they were younger...) But to the school's credit, they are letting him finish the semester, which they should. But whether or not you agree with the school, if they have this policy and the student's know going in...how can you complain? There is a state senator threatening to withhold money from the school because of this. Now why would you punish all of these other students because of this who have nothing to do with this. There are many state schools who will embrace the gay culture, so why not go there? www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060420/NEWS0104/604200387/1008/NEWS01I may be way off base, but I really think we're in bizzarro world. I can't understand any of this logic. Sighhhhhh |
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Post by Knapik on Apr 21, 2006 2:07:15 GMT -5
1) HAHA Kentucky kids are funny!
2) I don't think being a Communist makes you a bad person in any way.
3) I think the problem is the policy discriminating against certain types of people, not that the kid is upset about getting caught. If it's a great school, I can't imagine the kid or family skipping over it because of the policy. The family probably wants the best education it can give their child, and they should be allowed to have that whether their child was born gay or decided to be it. I think the born gay/decision to be gay ratio is more 90/10 than 75/25. I can't imagine any man CHOOSING to not have sex with a beautiful woman AND opening themselves up to ridicule and discrimination.
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Post by thefamoustommyz on Apr 21, 2006 2:45:11 GMT -5
1) I LOVE it.
2) Seriously...being a communist doesn't = EVIL anymore than being a capitalist does.
3) Hey, I think discrimination is stupid, but a private school is a private school.
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Post by gwffantrav on Apr 21, 2006 3:11:32 GMT -5
1) HAHA Kentucky kids are funny! 2) I don't think being a Communist makes you a bad person in any way. Maybe not the person, but the ideology is very bad...and if that's what you support.... 3) I think the problem is the policy discriminating against certain types of people, not that the kid is upset about getting caught. If it's a great school, I can't imagine the kid or family skipping over it because of the policy. The family probably wants the best education it can give their child, and they should be allowed to have that whether their child was born gay or decided to be it. I think the born gay/decision to be gay ratio is more 90/10 than 75/25. I can't imagine any man CHOOSING to not have sex with a beautiful woman AND opening themselves up to ridicule and discrimination. 1) It's not just Kentucky...but nationally 2) Maybe not the person, but the ideology is very bad...and if that's what you support........a regime that has tried to take down our very foundation... 3) Yes, but when it's a PRIVATE school and the policy is in place...kinda hard to argue. Thanks for that input from Jon and Tommy...I'd love more |
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Post by Knapik on Apr 21, 2006 3:16:44 GMT -5
2) Like we're trying to take down the foundation in the middle east?
3) It may be LEGAL, but that doesn't make it right. That's like not letting a black kid into your school IMO. I went to a private school from K through graduation... a kid got kicked out for being Catholic haha. Legal, sure... certainly not cool.
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Post by offspring515 on Apr 21, 2006 9:56:20 GMT -5
1. There are already laws in place to deal with illegal drugs. This seems like overkill to me.
2. We are lucky enough to live in a country that allows people to believe what they want, in religion, politics, etc. I don't think communism is a great practice, but there are other chracteristics on which to judge the merit of a person. For all i know ( and I didnt read the article) this man was a good family man, donated money to charity, etc. Those things hold more weight with me than his political leanings.
3. I have less of a problem with this. It's a private college, and they are allowed to have whatever rules they want for students there (within reason). As knapik said, it's not RIGHT. The person kicked out will probably find a more satisfying college experience by going somewhere where he doesnt have to hide who he is anyhow.
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Post by Joe on Apr 21, 2006 10:24:29 GMT -5
The third article actually does disturb me.
While I realize that the school has a code of sexual conduct to which students must adhere, one that I am sure is broken on a daily basis, I don't see how checking a preference box on a web page is in violation of the code.
That is the part that bothered me. He was not caught in a compromising position, accused of sexual misconduct or even seen on a date. He was basically kicked out of school for admitting to feeling and thinking a certian way. In my mind, that is very wrong.
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Post by thefamoustommyz on Apr 21, 2006 16:33:43 GMT -5
Hm.
Joe has another great point...I actually move into the other camp here, and think that the execution of the policy seems awful shaky. Basically, if he wasn't flaunting it or a "practicing" homosexual, I don't see HOW it could be enforced. Just seems fuzzy.
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Post by gwffantrav on Apr 21, 2006 22:34:20 GMT -5
2) Like we're trying to take down the foundation in the middle east? Now Jon, I like ya man, but to compare our policy to any of a Communist regime....you have to be morally confused. And while there is no way someone can choose to be black (unless their a wannabe! ;D), while I believe most are probably born gay, there is still no scientific proof...so that is a huge difference in that circumstance. Joe, from what I've heard, he just didn't put he was gay, but I thought he actually wrote it in his blog? Am I wrong about this? But like it says, rules are rules. It sucks that you are the one who gets caught going 75 down the expressway in a 55 MPH zone...but, lol, you got caught. That's the rule and you're getting a ticket for it. Same principle. But I just want to make sure that everyone is one the same page about number three....if everyone disagrees with this, they do disagree with affirmative action, minority benefits like private scholarships, things like that. I really want to make sure everyone is consistent on this...either it's no discrimination at all or it's let's pick and choose. You have to be consistent in your belief....just making sure.... (EDIT by Chris: Quote tag fix.) |
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Post by soug on Apr 21, 2006 22:56:26 GMT -5
it all sound like everyday life to me. remember, it's a strange yet wonderful world we live in!!!  |
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Post by offspring515 on Apr 22, 2006 0:57:03 GMT -5
Trav I don't think anyone is denying that the rule is probably legal. I think the sticking point falls more into the morality of the situation. It is a fine line between out and out discrimination and "following the rules" sometimes. But then that's coming from a Northern Democrat, so your mileage may vary (and with these gas prices, that's not a good thing!)
To go off on a tangent of my own, I'll never understand why a "Christian" school would refuse to let a homosexual attend class. Now I understand fully that to most Christians homosexuality is a sin. I also understand, from my reading of the bible and the words and works of many men of the cloth, that we all sin.
So why is the sin of homosexuality enough to have someone expelled, but a student (for example) looking at pornography wouldnt be? (And I'm certain SOMEONE could site a case where looking at porn was cause for expulsion, i'm merely using that to make a point.)
The attitude of most christians towards gay people really befuddles me sometimes. My uncle, who I love to death, is an "old regular" baptist. Ughhh...anyhow, he seems to think that gay bashing is a fun and worthwhile cause, and somehow fits into his Christian beliefs.
While watching TV with him a commercial for Brokeback Mountain came on. He went off on a tangent on how such "filth" shouldn't be filling the airwaves and how "no real christian" would see such a movie. I asked him if he'd ever seen the movie "Hannibal", knowing that he had. He answered yes, and I asked if he liked it. Again, he answered yes.
I think asked him how "any real christian" could watch and enjoy a film in which a murderer is not only featured, but presented as something of a hero. "Uhhh..well...that's not real." "Right, and neither is Brokeback Mountain. It's JUST a movie."
He really didn't like that lol. But I had fun.
Well now that i've taken this FAR off course, I'll return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
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Post by gwffantrav on Apr 22, 2006 1:28:11 GMT -5
Trav I don't think anyone is denying that the rule is probably legal. I think the sticking point falls more into the morality of the situation. It is a fine line between out and out discrimination and "following the rules" sometimes. But then that's coming from a Northern Democrat, so your mileage may vary (and with these gas prices, that's not a good thing!) Ah-ha...so you're one of the culprits! I'll send the guy up there to go to MSU! ;D To go off on a tangent of my own, I'll never understand why a "Christian" school would refuse to let a homosexual attend class. Now I understand fully that to most Christians homosexuality is a sin. I also understand, from my reading of the bible and the words and works of many men of the cloth, that we all sin.
So why is the sin of homosexuality enough to have someone expelled, but a student (for example) looking at pornography wouldn't be? (And I'm certain SOMEONE could site a case where looking at porn was cause for expulsion, i'm merely using that to make a point.)
The attitude of most Christians towards gay people really befuddles me sometimes. My uncle, who I love to death, is an "old regular" baptist. Ughhh...anyhow, he seems to think that gay bashing is a fun and worthwhile cause, and somehow fits into his Christian beliefs.
While watching TV with him a commercial for Brokeback Mountain came on. He went off on a tangent on how such "filth" shouldn't be filling the airwaves and how "no real Christian" would see such a movie. I asked him if he'd ever seen the movie "Hannibal", knowing that he had. He answered yes, and I asked if he liked it. Again, he answered yes.
I think asked him how "any real Christian" could watch and enjoy a film in which a murderer is not only featured, but presented as something of a hero. "Uhhh..well...that's not real." "Right, and neither is Brokeback Mountain. It's JUST a movie."
He really didn't like that lol. But I had fun.
Well now that i've taken this FAR off course, I'll return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
[/quote][/i] Oh I see your point in that about movies. I could care less what movies come out as long as it's not marketed to children (R movies, etc.). That's why I never had a problem with someone like Howard Stern. It was obvious he never catered to kids, but he was ripped. I liked his old skits with, and forgive me because I'm paraphrasing, retards, Daniel Carver, Hollywierd Squares, stuff like that...making fun of people... But once he got all bent out of shape and ranted all day about how they were out to get him, it got old. But to his credit, he never marketed his show to kids. But a show like Loveline....my gosh, that's as bad as Stern sometimes, but of course it's more marketed towards young teens. But I'm the type, as long as the R (explicit movies) aren't marketed towards younger crowds, then I have no problem. Other than that, make what movie you want. You have the choice to see what movie you want.... Much like the kid who chose to go to Cumberland even though he knew the rules coming in. |
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Post by Joe on Apr 22, 2006 11:37:12 GMT -5
I believe that his Myspace site said something along the lines of "preference: men." Once again, I may be wrong.
Facebook, which is like Myspace except a college e-mail address is required, has a section where you list what gender you are interested in.
It was my understanding that he didn't have pictures up, but just said that his preference was men. If that is really the case, then I believe the college went way beyond its boundaries. First, because I hate to think a college administrator is hanging out on Myspace checking up on his students. Secondly, since the first scenario probably didn't happen, it is likely the guy was turned in by a fellow student. If that happened, then that student should have been punished for going out of his way to intentionally mess up student's life.
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Post by Knapik on Apr 22, 2006 12:18:27 GMT -5
You say I'm 'morally confused', Trav, but I'm saying I don't see being a Communist as a moral breach. I suppose I was still a child when all of the propaganda was being thrown around, so maybe I'm thinking from more of a logical standpoint than one of actually living through it all.
You don't see how I could draw a parallel in Communists wanting our country to be Communist and America wanting Iraq to be Democratic? That's simple mathematics. Communists didn't want everyone to be Communists because they were EVIL. They truly thought it was the best, most fair way of government. I don't think any leader would be like "Wow... our form of government SUCKS.... but ya know? My pappy came up with it and gosh darn it, I'm going to see this thing through!"
That's it, as of right now I'm a Communist. Pass me my hammer and sickle!
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Post by Knapik on Apr 22, 2006 12:25:22 GMT -5
коммунизм длиной в реальном маштабе времени!!!!!!!
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Post by gwffantrav on Apr 22, 2006 12:54:59 GMT -5
I believe that his Myspace site said something along the lines of "preference: men." Once again, I may be wrong. Facebook, which is like Myspace except a college e-mail address is required, has a section where you list what gender you are interested in. It was my understanding that he didn't have pictures up, but just said that his preference was men. If that is really the case, then I believe the college went way beyond its boundaries. First, because I hate to think a college administrator is hanging out on Myspace checking up on his students. Secondly, since the first scenario probably didn't happen, it is likely the guy was turned in by a fellow student. If that happened, then that student should have been punished for going out of his way to intentionally mess up student's life. You could be right Joe, but from what I read it was his blogs. But even if the student turned him in, that is their prerogative if they would like to keep their school as it was intended. If the rules against drugs/alcohol were in (which I guarantee they are) and that student was turned in as well, and they knew the rules....I'd have no problem with as well. I heard on the radio about them talking about the state funding issue. I agree that maybe they should drop the state funding, etc (much like Bob Jones University..they take only private donations), and I see that point. But to punish those kids already there hoping for that dental school is a shame. But there lies in the question that if state funded schools (UK, UofL, WKU, etc) are practicing affirmative action practices in admission, that is in itself discriminatory and really no one can deny that. So that whole argument comes full circle. Once again Joe, you make good points. |
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Post by gwffantrav on Apr 22, 2006 13:16:11 GMT -5
You say I'm 'morally confused', Trav, but I'm saying I don't see being a Communist as a moral breach. I suppose I was still a child when all of the propaganda was being thrown around, so maybe I'm thinking from more of a logical standpoint than one of actually living through it all. You don't see how I could draw a parallel in Communists wanting our country to be Communist and America wanting Iraq to be Democratic? That's simple mathematics. Communists didn't want everyone to be Communists because they were EVIL. They truly thought it was the best, most fair way of government. I don't think any leader would be like "Wow... our form of government SUCKS.... but ya know? My pappy came up with it and gosh darn it, I'm going to see this thing through!" That's it, as of right now I'm a Communist. Pass me my hammer and sickle! Well Jon, you really should read up on Communism and some of the stuff they've pulled against anyone against them. You should really read into it.. But when you have people in Iraq thanking soldiers everyday for what they've done...hmmm. You may only see what's in the elite paper and on CNN, but we've had many soldiers at UPS who just returned and we've had banquets for them returning. I've did a few stories on the soldiers for our publication and they've ALL said don't believe a thing you read in the media. Everyone who is not a terrorist comes up and thanks them. Soldiers are taught to go into someplace single file, but Iraqi soldiers don't like it...they like to surround American troops to keep him protected. That's pretty impressive. I'm sure you only get your news from left leaning news/papers, etc and that's OK. Most people do and never hear the other side other than maybe Fox news. What kind of ratings would the news get if there was no tragedy?? And you probably didn't grow up in the 80s like I did, but you should really look into yourself and see the kind of attitudes of ordinary citizens under communism. You'll see a real big difference. Do you have kids Jon? I really want to ask then, what would you have done about the Middle East? Anyone please tell me? Anyone critical of the war,please tell me??? You want us to keep getting attacked? This war wasn't all about Iraq or WMDs. if you use your brain. We've been attacked by a variety of muslims from different countries. The difference between this war and WWII is that we knew the country of our enemies. This one, we don't. It's an ideology. So who do you attack? No one knows. Do you know? It isn't actual countries that are doing this...it's extremists from these countries (albeit silent approval from most of the countries). So what do you do...bomb them all? Of course you dont. But you try something and if you can't see what the goal of Iraq, you're blinded by Bush hatred and that's really a shame. Start a spread of democracy now in the Middle East and let it grow. It's people like you who thinks it should happen overnight. What happens overnight? This is going to take time, but everything does. You have people that have basically lived in the freaking stone age...but can you argue how the ones who appreciate their freedom have responded? Look at the threat posed to them on their election days. Yet, they continuously have hirer turnout as us. You don't think things like that are a positive start in turning around the thinking in the Middle east?!?!? If not, you are really blinded by Bush hatred. While it may take a few years (and who knows, it may not even work at all), but think of when people in the Middle East start to see the freedoms of people in Iraq and Afghanistan and think..hmmmmm. It may take for when I have grandkids, but I'll take that 50 year window instead of the 2000 year window those poor people have faced from their leaders. So quit playing politics and open your eyes if not for your future, but your kids, grandkids, etc. Geeeeeeez. And if you have a better plan, f'ing send it along and tell those f-ing moaners and posers Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, Jesse Jackson and the usual suspects. Read this article I posted a few months ago about WMDs Interesting story
« Thread Started on 2/18/06 at 12:41am » While we "may" have been "wrong", it's obvious we were one the right track. And if something did happen, you'd be the first to be griping at Bush,,,,he didn't do anything, he's on vacation all the time...blah blah blah. Just remember the old Winston Churchill saying, "If you're under 30 and not a liberal, you have no heart, but if you're over 30 and not conservative, you have no mind." Ponder it.... |
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Post by gwffantrav on Apr 22, 2006 15:28:28 GMT -5
I like ya Jon, but if it means that much to you to put up a communist avitar...I'll buy ya a plane ticket to any commie country as long as you'll get me a ticket to a sara evans concert  |
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Post by gatekeeper on Apr 22, 2006 23:48:18 GMT -5
Well, this conversation took a big turn from the gay-student, but I like this kind of political banter.
Trav, I am a Bush hater, but I follow politics pretty closely.
I do believe that Bush thinks how you do about the possible spreading of capitalism (really it's not capitalism, US is a Republic, but you know what I mean).
The problem is, that change will probably never happen in that region. Those people have been fighting since the dawn of man basically and, agreed, that's not going to change overnight. But I don't see it ever changing until the people there initiate change.
The US does not want to install Republic govts. You can see past practices of the US invading many countries and removing democratically elected leaders and installing dictators, like the Shah - one of the worst dictators of all time.
If it was such a good idea, how come the Brits were the only real ally we had helping, and they're basically gone now?
And, there are a ton of oppressing governments - like a country as close as Cuba - but we don't invade every country with oppressive govts.
Saudi Arabia is one of the most corrupt govts. in existence and they're one of our supposed allies in the Middle East.
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Post by gwffantrav on Apr 23, 2006 10:57:46 GMT -5
Sorry Gate, but you are absolutely wrong about Britain the only ally...that is the biggest misconception in this....take a look. That's the media talking to ya gate.
Cuba? You honestly think they pose a threat like muslin extremists and terrorists?
And like I said before, it may never ever happen, but what would you do? I never hear anything other suggestions except "talking and negotiating with them". That gets Israel some where doesn't it? They get their A bombed, when they retaliate, they get blasted by the corrupts UN. You have to learn you can' t negotiate with terrorists.
Saudis, oh I agree they're corrupts. But 95% of the govts there are corrupts. But what do you do and where do you start? Bomb them all? What? Please give me something besides talking to them? We've been there, done that. Doesn't work. Will this work? Who knows...but you expect things to change....BAM...just like that. You think Germany changed overnight? This change may not happen until our kids are grown or even when are grandkids? But in the time of the Earth is that not a start? I guess you don't want to make any sort of effort in helping our future...it has to be now.
And it may not work....but to do something for my kid and the future....thats a chance I'm willing to risk. Sorry...
And if you don't think one of the reasons for going to Iraq was knowing the threat of Iran, you are once again asleep or practicing Bush hatred.
But really, admit it....you'd hate any kind of war Bush started. I just like for people to admit it. I bet someone, say Egypt and take credit for it the govt and all, and you would still be against it because it's just Bush in office. Start working towards your goals in 06 and 08....for Christs sakes man,,,,Bush will be out in 2 years. Make a plan instead of obsessing with freaking Bush!!!! Geeez
And I pray for the libs to come back in office in 06 and in 08 so we can see them put their $$$ where their mouth is when the shoe is on the other foot. I'll just sit back and smile! ;D
Thank God that there weren't alot of people like you around when Hitler was in charge. We'd probably be goose stepping around town and then there'd be no COTG!!! Gaspp...no making fun of Plethador...Gasp! But do you agree we attacked Hitler? He really do anything to us. It was the Japanese...
Don't take this in general, because I'm talking about more or less party lines, be it child molesters, crime, terrorists...it's all the same...most libs see thing in grey, while conservatives see things in black and white....that most on the left don't see things in good and evil.
And to speak in GWF terms, I guess all of those planets should have rolled over for the Aethrans and Nexus should have never fought back against Krakan...he just should have took it like a man???
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