What's really going on with "Know Your Role"?

[ringsyde]

The latest news on WWE KYR ain't good. It sounds as if the folks at Comic Images offered a September release date to Barnes & Noble, Borders and Waldenbooks. My local Borders confirmed this today.

While I'm well aware that release dates are about as reliable as clean underwear in a car accident, there's enough proof out there to support the notion that this game's going to barely make the summer release that's been promoted.

[The Doctor]

You have to got to be kidding me. September? I reserved this game awhile back at my local comic shop, and man, I wish I didn't. I really don't even want it now. And I've been playing COTG like a mad man recently, so I just don't need it. They've lost my interest and endorsement.

[Mike M]

Cynthia? Tony? Can somebody with some "inside" info let us know a little more?

[Barnestormer]

I really hope that there's some definite news about KYR soon, because I've put my own pro wrestling RPG (Generic Championship Wrestling on the back burner until KYR is released, because I don't want my game system to look anything like KYR, or any other game of any genre on the market right now, because I don't want to be accused of plagarism.

[thefamoustommyz]

Well, it's kinda hard to do anything d20-derivative and be accused of plagarism...unless you're ripping off actual product identity.

[Talison]

Yeah, this was a cool idea and I liked the preview stuff I read almost a year ago now. But I don't think I care anymore. Certainly not going to drop 40 bucks on something they made me not care about.

[ringsyde]

I'm no stranger to massive delays of things I'm interested in playing, reading, watching or listening to, so this inconvenience isn't going to scare me off.

What will, however, is if the wait results in a dated, sub-par product. I've previously expressed concerns about how relevent this game will be to any current roster upon its release. Part of me thinks that one of the problems is that Comic Images spent a great deal of time trying to keep up with the WWE talent roster, gave up in April, but decided to make one more update to include the current draft.

Of course, this is pure speculation on my part.

Whatever the case, my only concern is with the finished product. I anticipated long delays when CI failed to deliver during the Wrestlemania months. A bad game, after all of the anticipation and the numerous blown opportunities to capitalize on the buzz, would simply be inexcuseable.

[Talison]

I can see what your saying, RingsYde, and I think it's what I was trying to say.

If it's a good game I'll buy it, no doubt. It's not the inconveniance that's got me worried. It's, like you said, the idea that it might not be up to date. Delays could mean fixes, it could also mean the company just doesn't know what it's doing.

Case in point, they recently posted write ups for John Cena and Batista on the website. Cena's write up is completely different from the one that appeared in the preview document. I can't imagine either of these guys not being in the book. So is the book version wrong and the online version the eretta? I know it's speculation, but think about it.

I want as much assurance as possible that it will be a quality product, and constant delays are not helping.

[thefamoustommyz]

When they were posted, I thought I remembered hearing that CI was going to be putting up two wrestlers who had been left out of the book...so you can imagine the conclusion I jumped to.

As a roleplayer, my favorite company (Eden Studios) is constantly plagued with massive delays. That said, I have never regretted a single purchase because their quality is always spot on.

[Tongsoon of Cygnus]

No matter when the release date is, I thought I would step in and offer some stuff to those of you who are actually playing the demo version. This stuff might help clear some things up, and make the game run a tad smoother. Sorry, but it's the best I can do until this game sees the light of day.

The following are the ability modifiers for your wrestler's abilities. These modifiers are added to your d20 roll whenever you make an Ability roll. They also help affect things like your Base Attack Bonus, Save Throws, and so on. These are more for people who don't have the d20 basic rulebook.

1 = -5
2-3 = -4
4-5 = -3
6-7 = -2
8-9 = -1
10-11 = 0
12-13 = +1
14-15 = +2
16-17 = +3
18-19 = +4
20-21 = +5
22-23 = +6
24-25 = +7
26-27 = +8

Also, here are the Key Abilities for your wrestler's Save Throws. The Ability modifier (listed above) is added to the Base Save Throw listed for each Class. Also, remember to add your STR Ability Modifier to your Base Attack Bonus listed.
Fortitude = Constitution
Willpower = Wisdom
Reflex = Dexterity
Base Attack Bonus = Strength

Spectacular Entrance: Can be used 1 per show, and you gain 1 Heat from it. Pre-requisite is that you must be a Level-6 wrestler to gain it. This would be similar to Kurt Angle, Undertaker, or Goldberg who has pyro and music with their entrance.

[CynthiaCM]

I was just informed that KYR is available at the Origins game convention, so I'd wager that stores will be getting it really, really soon.

[CynthiaCM]

mattpulido said:

Case in point, they recently posted write ups for John Cena and Batista on the website. Cena's write up is completely different from the one that appeared in the preview document. I can't imagine either of these guys not being in the book. So is the book version wrong and the online version the eretta? I know it's speculation, but think about it.

I want as much assurance as possible that it will be a quality product, and constant delays are not helping.

Believe me, I sympathize. I wish I had some control over that aspect of the product, but I didn't.

There is a bit of a "dating" issue with KYR, but it's not too bad. Actually, it's better than a lot of video games in terms of staying current. The main thing is that certain characters listed as Raw superstars are now Smackdown superstars (and vice versa). Only two superstars listed in the book are no longer with the company (Rhyno and Rock).

The biggest problem is that the two current primary champions (Cena and Batista) are absent from the book. Thankfully, that was fixed somewhat by putting the stats on the CI website.

Since the book is out now, I can tell you the full roster*:

Rock
Triple H
Chris Jericho
Edge
Rhyno
Tajiri
Trish Status
Hurricane
Coach
Earl Hebner
Eric Bischoff
Undertaker
Kurt Angle
Eddie Guerrero
Big Show
Bubba Ray Dudley
D-Von Dudley
Torrie Wilson
Paul Heyman
Theodore Long

* The PDF version of the manuscript I have (which is kinda old now) could have been altered slightly before going to press. In fact, I hope it was updated, to be honest.

[ringsyde]

"Since the book is out now, I can tell you the full roster*:"

Alright Cynthia, don't play with my emotions!! Are you saying the book is done and available for purchase?

I'm more than a little disappointed with the roster. However; since one of the funnest aspects of RPG's is the creation of characters, I'll overlook the fact that roster is chock full of midcarders, non-wrestlers and former WWE talent.

I'm not going to the Origins game convention, so somebody tell me when to hit my local Borders (because as of yesterday, Borders, B. Dalton, Barnes and Noble and Waldenbooks STILL had no clue [or maintained their September release date]).

[CynthiaCM]

Alright Cynthia, don't play with my emotions!! Are you saying the book is done and available for purchase?

Yes, sort of. It could take a week or more before it finds its way through the distribution channels and into stores. But it does exist.

I'm more than a little disappointed with the roster. However; since one of the funnest aspects of RPG's is the creation of characters, I'll overlook the fact that roster is chock full of midcarders, non-wrestlers and former WWE talent.

Remember, we had to include challenges for player characters of all Levels. If we included nothing but upper card guys, those beginning PCs wouldn't have anyone to fight (at least without the GM creating new characters). As for the non-wrestlers, I totally agree; If I had my way, we would've cut Coach, Bischoff, Hebner, Heyman, Long, and Torrie. But then, I'm not a fan of the non-wrestling stuff, whereas a lot of people are.

I'm not going to the Origins game convention, so somebody tell me when to hit my local Borders (because as of yesterday, Borders, B. Dalton, Barnes and Noble and Waldenbooks STILL had no clue [or maintained their September release date]).

I have no clue about which stores KYR will be in.

[Tone Cold]

Halle-friggin'-lujah, it's finally out! (Not that I've seen a copy yet myself...)

Been a while since I'm on this board; a few other things (namely designing other games) been keeping me busy, but I wanna thank everybody for your interest and patience (even tho they might've waned some by now... don't blame ya, I'd be too ) I hope KYR will soon be in the shops and stores everywhere, and even if you don't actually buy a copy, if you would take a few seconds to browse it, I'd be happy

I have no idea why the long delay at Comic Images, except maybe that it's their first RPG and they underestimated the production process involved. But I will go aheand apologize for that on their behalf, and hope the game do well enough for us to bring you more WWE: KYR stuff.

And here's a virtual toast to Cynthia, the rest of the design team, the playtesters, fans, and all of you who showed interest in the project: We've finished the first step; here's to many more.

(Actually, scrap the toast and toss me some Toneweisers )


Tony

[Talison]

Hey Cynthia, any chance of you posting bootlegs for KYR?

Also I'm wondering how accurate the preview characters remain to the final product. Only one of them was listed in the books roster and Cena's online writeup is different than his preview writeup.

[CynthiaCM]

mattpulido said:

Hey Cynthia, any chance of you posting bootlegs for KYR?

I plan to work up stats for some of the wrestlers from the 1950s-1970s, but it might be awhile before I have enough free time to do so. We're swamped right now.

Also I'm wondering how accurate the preview characters remain to the final product. Only one of them was listed in the books roster and Cena's online writeup is different than his preview writeup.

Tony will be able to answer that one.

[Tone Cold]

mattpulido said:

Also I'm wondering how accurate the preview characters remain to the final product. Only one of them was listed in the books roster and Cena's online writeup is different than his preview writeup.

The preview characters will require changing, since several Talents and Feats got tweaked, revised, and even dropped between demo and final product. The Lift DC is also two higher in demo, and the Base Attack Bonus progression for some classes changed as well. Keep in mind the original 8-page demo was before extensive playtesting started, and the final system has gone through several draft since.


Tony

[Talison]

Which means we are left without accurate stats for JBL, Booker T, Rey Misterio, and Chavo Guerrero.

Hope no on is planning on running a Smackdown league.

I hate to keep soundind negative. I said earlier that I think this is one of most interesting uses of the D20 system I've read. But I for one won't be buying the game to make my own guy and challenge other people's creations. I want to have matches between WWE wrestler. The books roster has no current Champion accept the Hurricane. And it has a lot of non wrestlers.

I still think it's going to be a fine product. Play wise I love everything I've read. I just hope Comic Images is going to support this with some reasonably priced roster books, and not take thier time about it.

[Tone Cold]

mattpulido said:

I hate to keep soundind negative. I said earlier that I think this is one of most interesting uses of the D20 system I've read. But I for one won't be buying the game to make my own guy and challenge other people's creations. I want to have matches between WWE wrestler. The books roster has no current Champion accept the Hurricane. And it has a lot of non wrestlers.

The problem we ran into is the gap from draft to WWE approval to release. We had to finalize sometime around last September who's in and who's out. We got together and made calls based on (1) who might be around by the time the game's released, and (2) a broad selection of characters, midcarders and nonwrestlers included, so players and GMs have models to follow in creating those types of characters.

#1 is always a tough call; who woulda figured WWE wouldn't "renew" the Dudleys? Batista is doing well now, but he was just starting to catch on when the selection was made and there was no guarantee to his push and taking Orton's spot on Wrestlemania. We had to predict the future, more or less, based on the circumstances at the time of decision and that will always be a hit-or-miss proposition, espeically with the capricious booking of WWE.

Could we have revised the roster to match the latest WWE development? Yes, we could, but every change is another round of approval, and we'd never get the book out since the "update" will be outdated by the time WWE approves it. Imagine how much longer we'll be waiting for the book's release, if it's already taken them this long to approve what was set last year and turned in this January.

I feel ya, but the licensing process pretty much dictates we'll be behind the current direction. It was best for us to play safe (including mainstays the WWE is unlikely to fire, such as HHH, Taker, Angle) than to try to keep up with the booking (from six months out, no less).


Tony