Question regarding MMA Rules

[markoda]

Maybe I did not read it right, but after an unsuccesful KO/SUB attempt, does the offensive wrestler stay on Level 3 offense or is it assumed that the ref breaks them apart and they start back on level one.

Not sure as I haven't really watched any MMA, but will be starting to watch soon.

Thanks for any help given

[Darth Turkish]

Depends where the KO/ SUB attempt occurs. If the attempt was on L1D the action stays on L1O (Strike Offense) (assume the strike rocked the opponent, but not enough to send them out). If it was on L3D, then stay on L3O(Grapple Offense).

[markoda]

Thanks for the answer. I think I will really enjoy this.

[Trent Lawless]

Just as an addendum to what Turkish said: The reason we chose to do it that way was that if you go to L3O every time KO/SUB is rolled, the grapplers really gain a huge advantage. We wanted it to be more evened out. Seems to be working!

[rock]

I have another question! What about "special abilities" like Crucible's "State Of Fear"? Are they somehow incorporated into the MMA style?

[rawhide]

they will probably be ignored .

[Darth Turkish]

You know, I always meant to ask that, but never have.

Mr. Lawless, this one is all you!

[Aquinas]

rawhide said:

they will probably be ignored .

I would think so -- and I hope so too. MMA rules seem purposely more "pure" and traditional, with no interference or typical wrestling fare. Just two combatants battling and seeing how their styles match up.

As someone running a POW that is both wrestling and MMA, I think it works well that way.

[Trent Lawless]

Yeah, no special powers. The assumption would be that a guy like Crucible would be DQ'd for even trying such a thing. The MMA stuff should indeed be more one-on-one, straight-up, like Aquinas said.

[Darth Turkish]

That is what I figured, but I wanted to keep silent just in case.

[rock]

hmmmm, interesting. Thanks.

[Chewey]

markcpc said:

Just as an addendum to what Turkish said: The reason we chose to do it that way was that if you go to L3O every time KO/SUB is rolled, the grapplers really gain a huge advantage. We wanted it to be more evened out. Seems to be working!

Interesting because I had been thinking about this. Statistically, I believe more of my matches end in knockouts than by submissions. This would make sense to me, because in any given MMA card, there are usually far more striking moves than there are submission moves, so there is a greater probability that a defensive wrestler will roll a KO/SUB following a strike, and therefore the KO rating will climb higher faster and lead to a KO being more likely to occur.

I don't watch enough MMA to be knowledgeable enough on the subject, but do that many MMA fights really tend to end with opponents on their feet? It was always my impression that they often ended on the ground.

Also, I had typically allowed fighters who were stronger strikers to allow their opponent to stand up after rolling a KO/SUB on L3D. Seemed to make sense, like a high school wrestler choosing to let his opponent stand up on an optional start because he preferred to wrestle on his feet. Don't know what the official rule is on this.

[Darth Turkish]

Chewster, those are good questions. In my opinion, this type of combat does favor a guy who is a good striker: Fight starts out standing; ref does not like action in the clinch, he separates them so they can bang at each other; ref thinks the action on the ground is too slow, he stands them up; any kind of infraction such as a warning, cut check, no action in a corner or falling into or through the ropes (for non cage feds like POW) or allowing a fighter to recover from an illegal or low blow, the fighters are separated.

And you are right about there being more KOs than SUBs at least from me (and I am sure we are not alone) rare is the POW card that has a submission move on L2O, And you rarely see the standing guillotine submit in MMA it is usually a wear down tactic. It is even rarer to see the flying armbar, flying triangle, kani basami ashi getame (leg scissor foor lock) or rolling knee bar occur, let alone work. Although after watching Diego Sanchez have a body lock on that one dude for like 3 minutes while Snachez's opponent was standing was pretty odd, so yeah, bizzare stuff can happen.
.

Also, I had typically allowed fighters who were stronger strikers to allow their opponent to stand up after rolling a KO/SUB on L3D. Seemed to make sense, like a high school wrestler choosing to let his opponent stand up on an optional start because he preferred to wrestle on his feet. Don't know what the official rule is on this.

This is something I had considered bringing up to Mark, but did not for some reason. It is a good house rule to use, and makes sense from a certain point of view. My only concern would be: In real MMA most fighters are not going to just let their opponent up, even if they were just tagged or fought off a submission. most of he time they hold on for what looks like their life.

But that is me.

hope this helps.

[Trent Lawless]

turkish said:

My only concern would be: In real MMA most fighters are not going to just let their opponent up, even if they were just tagged or fought off a submission. most of he time they hold on for what looks like their life.

And that's why there aren't more Level 1 reversals on L3D. You might want to get up, but the other guy might not want you to. Defensive fighters are not as helpless in MMA as in pro wres. They can still control the flow somewhat.

I do see your point, though, Chewey. It's all a delicate science, making these cards!

[Chad Olson]

markcpc said:

turkish said:

My only concern would be: In real MMA most fighters are not going to just let their opponent up, even if they were just tagged or fought off a submission. most of he time they hold on for what looks like their life.

And that's why there aren't more Level 1 reversals on L3D. You might want to get up, but the other guy might not want you to. Defensive fighters are not as helpless in MMA as in pro wres. They can still control the flow somewhat.

I do see your point, though, Chewey. It's all a delicate science, making these cards!

You make a good point about the olympic start (letting your opponent up) in amateur wrestling Chewey. I think the big difference is that in MMA, you can work off your back and still get your opponent in a lot of trouble. In amateur wrestling, it's completely uncomfortable to be on your back. Your instinct is to roll to your stomach. Roll to your stomach in MMA, and you give up a guillotine choke.

When I watched the first couple of UFCs, it was amazing to see Royce Gracie on his back, working holds and looking completely in control and relaxed. As I learned about the guard, I really respected the Ju Jitsu training, because it's so unlike what I was taught in wrestling.