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Post by Bazzy on Apr 10, 2007 1:40:47 GMT -5
Altogether now
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Post by Chewey on Apr 10, 2007 20:53:31 GMT -5
lol. I'm glad I started the debate on Lord Nexus. Guys like Star Warrior, Thantos, Wolf, Omega, and Morpheus are unquestionable First Ballot HOF'ers that I don't think anyone is going to argue against. Guys like Nexus definitely have the legacy, but are going to have to earn it through solid campaigning, which I think he will - but I don't think he deserves to make it on his first try, unless I am convinced otherwise, by the discussion on this board.
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Post by theringmaster on Apr 11, 2007 1:08:21 GMT -5
I read something I agree with above (don't feel like going to quote it) with I think it was Chewey posting - He mentioned a seperate wing for each era (Classics, Invasion etc.) I like this, but I think each eras managers would just be in each "era's wings" not seperate from the wrestlers where they made a Hall of Fame worthy contributions.
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Post by mikefortune on Apr 11, 2007 9:12:34 GMT -5
I really don't think people should campaign for certain wrestlers to get it. A person shouldn't be able to sway votes.
If we are going to vote on merits in your fed that vote for what a wrestler/tag team/manager did in you fed. I campaigned for Necros to make it in and guess what he did. Did he deserve to be in...no way but I liked him and I was able to sway quite a few votes and have him put in. I made a mockery of the voting system 10 years ago and I do not want to see it happen again.
So when we vote, vote on the merits of the person in question and not what some one else may say to you.
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Post by Chewey on Apr 11, 2007 10:36:09 GMT -5
I really don't think people should campaign for certain wrestlers to get it. A person shouldn't be able to sway votes. If we are going to vote on merits in your fed that vote for what a wrestler/tag team/manager did in you fed. I campaigned for Necros to make it in and guess what he did. Did he deserve to be in...no way but I liked him and I was able to sway quite a few votes and have him put in. I made a mockery of the voting system 10 years ago and I do not want to see it happen again. So when we vote, vote on the merits of the person in question and not what some one else may say to you. While you are, of course, right about evaluating the merits of each wrestler in each individual promoter's fed, I think a discussion of each of the wrestlers on a case-by-case analysis is also important in defining a somewhat uniform standard on what the bar should be for this Hall. The bar for the HOF in which you got Count Necros inducted obviously wasn't very high (lol), or we wouldn't be doing this project over again. And I think you made a very good point in that you only pushed for Count Necros because you liked him. For whatever reason, he was a sentimental favorite, rather than a by-the-stats great superstar on the merits. If we go by sentimental favorites, it is quite possible that Star Warrior, Omega, Commander Sam, Massif, Wolf, Renegade, The Greek Gods, Lord Nexus, Pulsar, Pit Viper, Thantos, Comrade Terror, Brute, Massacre, Exo-King, and Invincible Krakan could all be inducted. That's 17 out of the original 24 characters from the Introductory Game Edition - a clip of more than two thirds. While I would still expect 2087 to yield the greatest number of HOF'ers, that clip is alarming as to what could be another mockery of the voting system. I actually want to expand on this even further, but I'll save my "evil campaigning" for later.  |
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Post by Dragon Breath on Apr 11, 2007 10:59:58 GMT -5
I really don't think people should campaign for certain wrestlers to get it. A person shouldn't be able to sway votes. If we are going to vote on merits in your fed that vote for what a wrestler/tag team/manager did in you fed. I campaigned for Necros to make it in and guess what he did. Did he deserve to be in...no way but I liked him and I was able to sway quite a few votes and have him put in. I made a mockery of the voting system 10 years ago and I do not want to see it happen again. So when we vote, vote on the merits of the person in question and not what some one else may say to you. While you are, of course, right about evaluating the merits of each wrestler in each individual promoter's fed, I think a discussion of each of the wrestlers on a case-by-case analysis is also important in defining a somewhat uniform standard on what the bar should be for this Hall. The bar for the HOF in which you got Count Necros inducted obviously wasn't very high (lol), or we wouldn't be doing this project over again. And I think you made a very good point in that you only pushed for Count Necros because you liked him. For whatever reason, he was a sentimental favorite, rather than a by-the-stats great superstar on the merits. If we go by sentimental favorites, it is quite possible that Star Warrior, Omega, Commander Sam, Massif, Wolf, Renegade, The Greek Gods, Lord Nexus, Pulsar, Pit Viper, Thantos, Comrade Terror, Brute, Massacre, Exo-King, and Invincible Krakan could all be inducted. That's 17 out of the original 24 characters from the Introductory Game Edition - a clip of more than two thirds. While I would still expect 2087 to yield the greatest number of HOF'ers, that clip is alarming as to what could be another mockery of the voting system. I actually want to expand on this even further, but I'll save my "evil campaigning" for later. Coming up with a reasonable maximum number of inductees each year will go a long way in solving this problem. If someone is dead set on voting for someone like Killer Queen, I think that they should be allowed to do so. However, I can't see Killer Queen ever gaining any real support if in order to vote for him, electors would have to take a pass on someone like Wolf or Star Warrior. |
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Post by Eliath on Apr 11, 2007 16:01:11 GMT -5
You know, I was just thinking to add on to Joe's post: What do you do with a candidate like Lord Nexus, who is about as "borderline" as you can get? Unremarkable singles career as a mid-carder... respectable career as a tag wrestler... pretty good manager for the Fighting Titans... overall influence on the GWF was huge, given the sum of his parts. He would definitely get my vote for a Lifetime Achievement Award, but nothing really sticks out about him. And if he somehow got inducted as, say a tag wrestler, there is no way that Billy Jo Boxer deserves to get inducted with him. All right, I'm already jumping the gun on the HOF candidates debate. Discuss. As far as Lord Nexus goes for me...I would have to vote him in based on what he did for me in tag-team action. His team still holds the record for longest winning streak in my fed at 3 months. During that span they didn't miss a single card of action, they took on everyone put before them and won. So for me, Lord Nexus is HOF. |
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Post by steefposton on Apr 11, 2007 17:47:37 GMT -5
I agree that a HOF should be for the cream of the crop. That's why I advocate a minimum 5 years retired before becoming eligible to reduce some of the "sentimental" voting and get the people in who really deserve to be there.
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Post by swarm on Apr 17, 2007 20:16:05 GMT -5
I see no reason for separate wings. If anything I think it would lead to problems with several guys who were part of successful tags teams but also made a name for themselves as a singles wrestler.
For example, I'd much rather see Thunder and Overkill get in individually based on their history both as a team, and as Overkill as a tag star in general...same to be said for Thunder and his singles stardom vs. as a team team.
Sometimes keeping it simple is the best approach.
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Post by tystates on Apr 17, 2007 20:52:23 GMT -5
I don't really think wings are needed. Here's an example. I think it is the wrestling clothesline website that started doing an independent wrestling hall of fame a few years ago. I was on the committee for the first two years. They elected people like Jimmy Snuka and Terry Funk to the independent hall of fame. I think most would say those two names are just wrestling hall of famers. If you are a wrestling hall of famer why do you need to be in an independent hall of fame? So if Lord Nexus is voted in he can just be a hall of famer, not a lifetime contrbutor, singles or tag wrestler or manager. Just a hall of famer.
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Post by jefft on Apr 19, 2007 6:36:51 GMT -5
Different wings are not needed and Tag Teams could be put in together but also individual tag stars can also be put in separately. Case in point - Dreggs: He was part of two long standing championship caliber teams and I'd vote him on that merit by himself.
PS: In the Baseball HOF, there is no 'separate wing' for Negro League players, they are made part of the general HOF just like everyone else.
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Post by steefposton on Apr 19, 2007 17:41:43 GMT -5
I don't think "tag-team" should be voted in but rather individual wrestlers with their tag-team career as the arguement. Lord Nexus makes for a good example...He should get in, but should Billy Jo Boxer? I would say not!
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Post by Chewey on Apr 20, 2007 10:19:11 GMT -5
Billy Jo Boxer has absolutely no place in the Hall of Fame. If a character with an incredibly lame name can make it in with a career high finisher rating of +1, then what is there to stop people like Tendron the Destroyer, Count Necros, and Sectarian (all of whom have higher finisher ratings, and two of the three have names that are just as lame) from making it in also? A strong, emphatic no on Boxer here.
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Post by Vidtek on Apr 20, 2007 14:37:57 GMT -5
Billy Jo Boxer has absolutely no place in the Hall of Fame. If a character with an incredibly lame name can make it in with a career high finisher rating of +1, then what is there to stop people like Tendron the Destroyer, Count Necros, and Sectarian (all of whom have higher finisher ratings, and two of the three have names that are just as lame) from making it in also? A strong, emphatic no on Boxer here. Secrarian's Finisher Rating was (0). And he should never be included on the same page as a discussion of Halls of Fame, unless that HoF is one of Biggest Loosers. Big Time |
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Post by jefft on Apr 20, 2007 14:59:16 GMT -5
No way on Billy Jo Boxer. Titan Power was good, not great and the only reason they were good is because of Lord Nexus. It should just be single characters and not tag teams - for example, Dreggs should be in I think, but not Mace or Sleeze. Brute and Massacre would go in separately, but based on their tag team achievements.
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Post by Chewey on Apr 20, 2007 15:21:33 GMT -5
Secrarian's Finisher Rating was (0). Yeah, but he had two SIMIAN STUNNER (0)'s on his card. And I think everyone can agree that two (0) finishers is better than one (+1) finisher. Sectarian has a comparable defense to Billy Jo Boxer on L3D, and is slightly better on both L1D and L2D. Other than Billy Jo Boxer's three punches on L2O, Sectarian's card is stronger than Billy Jo Boxer's. That's my point. Sectarian sucks. Billy Jo Boxer is at least as bad as Sectarian stat-wise. Neither one of them should be in the Hall of Fame. |
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Post by mikefortune on Apr 20, 2007 22:12:13 GMT -5
There are lots of marginal guys who have an outside chance of getting in. And BJB is not one of them. I would like to see Executioner and Comrade Terror make it in but they really were not that good. They captured a few titles tag and singles and never really had a long run with any titles they had.
When it boils down to it tag teams usually had 1 strong wrestler and 1 weaker. Brute on his own pre cleansing sucked. As a team one of the best ever. I really liked Lightening, if you look at his card he is a very solid wrestler. I teamed him up with Actagon for a while and they kicked ass. With Man Mountain I felt sorry for him.
And Count Necros can never make it in the HOF because when his new Necros card came out, the story behind him was he is an immortal so he never really has to retire. Damm you Filsinger and you meddling ways to keep Necros from the HOF.
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