Current Launch Package and what is coming at G-Con

[steefposton]

yup, dealbreaker for me too. If the Stat tracker was a PROGRAM that was purchased, I'd be inclined to buy the digital versions too, but I don't want to have to keep paying for something I "bought" for the rest of my life to have access to it. Wal-Mart doesn't charge me a subscription fee to keep using my lawnmower (I know I still have to buy the gas, but I can still go out and look at my lawnmower even without the gas)

[tystates]

Last year when the talk started about a computer game coming out, I think most people like me figured it was a game to buy and install on your pc, not online. I've done nothing with my current access as I don't want to simulate matches and I haven't played aCe so there's no stats to input. Whenever the game table finally comes out I have six months to see how much I'm going to use it and decide to keep it or not. I feel as though it was launched half finished though and the stat tracker portion is more important than the program you actually play the game with. Maybe the stat portion was just ready first or the game table is more work to get ready.

I still don't see why a pdf for the online only sets can't be purchased separately, other than that is how they want you try it out. Maybe down the road that will happen. It's basically free money for them to do that since the cards are already there. I think more people would be made happy if they could just buy the pdf of whatever sets are digital only.

[crimsoncross]

I'm going to use the full run, how long I'm not sure but to try it for the first run is something I want to try and will decide if it will be worth it for the long haul. This new way has sparked my interest again and I plan to still play at my kicthen table with the cardstock cards and dice and also on-line.

[Eliath]

Here is how things appear to stand at this time...

$29 gets you a 6 month subscription that may, or may not have already started without a complete & working game...

$12 is the cost for each cardstock set...

I believe there are roughly 15 different GWF story arcs...if those sets are rolled out over the next 2 years at $10 a piece that breaks down to roughly $138 the first year for 8 sets & your subscription...and $128 the second year for 7 sets & your subscription..

$266 more for what I already have in cardstock form...that I paid $246 to Storm the Ring and Brawl....?!?

I realize, before anyone replies to this, that there will be a price break for an annual subscription...and sure my digital set pricing might be double what it turns out to be....even at half the cost...$133 over a 2 year span is unacceptable.

Honestly, the Stat Tracker is a nice program...but it really doesn't do much for me that my own Access program doesn't do for me...let alone what I have done with Excel & my love of spreadsheets...the Game Table is going to have to be one HELL of an amazing program for me to even CONSIDER shelling out this kind of money for an online game...especially when I have the cards & dice right before me..

I just don't see the point...and maybe I'm alone in this.

[crimsoncross]

I understand the whole Cash issue, I think like anything we need to see how it all pans out and I'm sure the guys at the CotGonline staff will see what happens with their product and if it will work, I'm giving it a chance. In the end I give everyone thats involved props for going into uncharted waters with this project.

[Wildfire]

You guys make a good point, but personally I'm reserving judgement until the prices are settled upon, but it would have to be pretty high to discourage me from keep up the subscription... I may not buy the digital cards right away (depending on how my free time is looking) but the program itself really great!

And this is only the beginning... y'all can see how passionate BDS is about this stuff.. before long Stat Tracker will probably be creating new wrestlers and getting WWE creative straighten out.

I bought the launch package for the aCe stuff, which rocks, and was well worth the $29.. especially when you include the stat tracker (even for a few months) if I decide once the pricing is settled on that its too much money, I fully intend to save/print/whatever the aCe card stuff...as anyone else could, but I really don't see that happening.

My guess is that it'll be pretty reasonable, since, as someone else on this thread said, its pretty close to free money for Filsinger Games.. Just about all the costs involved in this (Development, server costs, maintenance, etc) are fixed.

What I would love to see is some sort of two-tiered thing to give long time GWF customers (those who have the paper cards) a break.. the big risk here is that sales of the cards will drop (or go away) if online is too much cheaper... having a discount would mitigate this... I just don't know if its possible logistically.

Another possibilty( perhaps in addition to the above) would be to add time to people's accounts when they buy a set(paper or electronic). I know Days of Wonder does this, and, for me, it works great... I'd far rather buy a board game for $25, and get another 6 months online time than pay the $15 for just the time. I've never thought that Filsinger Games has been anything but reasonable in their pricing for things, and there's no reason to think this will be different.

Would there be nice PDFs for every set in a perfect world? sure, but they ARE trying to get people to buy the package, not just the set... perhaps as time passes this will be an option.

It is unfortunate that the game table isn't ready yet, but I for one was so excited to get aCe 2121, I let the (somewhat odd) launch slide. As someone who has tested the thing, let me tel l you it'll be worth the wait.

@ Eliath.. I don't think $133 for 2 years is unreasonable at all... Say average playing 2 hours a week (which is FAR less than I think most of us play) over two years, you playing less than .50 an hour for Cotg.. that's a pretty good deal... and that would be consider quite a few sets...If you just get the New Begginning stuff (which is all they'll be at first anyway) I'd bet it'll be less than half that $133.

I'm not trying to sell you guys, but I do think you're getting a little hung up on the details, especially when alot of those details are unknown.

[crimsoncross]

wildfire said:

You guys make a good point, but personally I'm reserving judgement until the prices are settled upon.

I bought the launch package for the aCe stuff, which rocks, and was well worth the $29.. if I decide once the pricing is settled on that its too much money, I fully intend to save/print/whatever the aCe card stuff...as anyone else could.

Would there be nice PDFs for every set in a perfect world? sure, but they ARE trying to get people to buy the package, not just the set.

It is unfortunate that the game table isn't ready yet, but I for one was so excited to get aCe 2121, I let the (somewhat odd) launch slide.

I'm right now more of an aCe fan and player, so getting this stuff was worth it so far... in the end we must wait and see how this will all pan out.

[dbfnq]

wildfire said:

If I decide once the pricing is settled on that its too much money, I fully intend to save/print/whatever the aCe card stuff...as anyone else could, but I really don't see that happening.

If all the aCe cards were in a format that could be easily printed and/or saved, I'd already be signed up. But it's only the 2122 set.

I probably will take out a trial subscription once I've cleared some other stuff off my 'things to do' list, though.

[BDS]

wildfire said:

I'm not trying to sell you guys, but I do think you're getting a little hung up on the details, especially when alot of those details are unknown.

I'd respond to everything else in this thread, but (A) there's a whole lot to respond to and (B) I don't really have the answers that most of y'all are looking for anyway. I know some numbers, but I don't know that those numbers are final, and the last thing I want is to pass out numbers that turn out to be wrong. Osk will be back as normal on Monday, and I will make SURE that when he gets back home, he hits this thread as soon as possible. Fair enough?

[jefft]

wildfire said:

Another possibilty( perhaps in addition to the above) would be to add time to people's accounts when they buy a set(paper or electronic). I know Days of Wonder does this, and, for me, it works great... I'd far rather buy a board game for $25, and get another 6 months online time than pay the $15 for just the time. I've never thought that Filsinger Games has been anything but reasonable in their pricing for things, and there's no reason to think this will be different.

Cool idea!

[Eliath]

@ BDS: Fair enough.

@ Wildfire: I think you see what I am saying, but are missing my point. I do not disagree that the Stat Tracker is a nice program and BDS' passion for its improvement is beyond question. My issue is this: Say you are a lifetime GWF player..who has been here since the beginning...your loyalty has been unwavering since the late 80's and you own every set that Filsinger Games has released to date. Now the Launch Package releases and you pay that $29 for the aCe set, the 6 month subscription to the Stat Tracker. Now...the Game Table releases and hypothetically..it too is a $29 subscription for a "Launch Package" that includes the New Beginnings/Subversion sets and a 6 month subscription to the Game Table..Then they release Early Classics and ask you to pay another $10 for that digital set...I could continue into other sets, but you get the picture..Now, to my issue: Why should you, a lifetime, loyal, GWF & Filsinger Games customer have to re-purchase everything you have already collected over the last 20 years? Honestly, why? Because it is a new media format? Because it is a new program to roll the dice for you? That is what the subscription cost is for...Why can Filsinger Games just toggle the switch in the program for each set that you already own and give you access to the cards that you have already invested in? (I know this is not how it really works but the imagry cites my point very well) I would feel, as a lifetime customer of Filsinger Games, that I really wasn't valued to the company as anything more than $$$$$$. For 20 years has CotG REALLY been about the $$$$ and not about the Promoter? If that is the case then I have been duped..and so have most of you. Yes, I realize this is a business. I am a business owner and I suppose this is why this sits with me wrong...You are seeding your new venture into the fertile soil of loyal customers...KNOWING that they will most likely buy into what you are selling because of that loyality...Your initial customer base is coming from us...who have been loyal customers....

You know, never mind. I doubt that anyone is going to understand my point anyway...so I will just sit back and not say another word. Pass me the Kool Aid.

[BDS]

eliath said:

@ BDS: Fair enough.

That's all I can ask. Like I said, I will make absolutely certain that he gets to this thread ASAP when he gets back. Before I leave the boards for the comfort of the weekend, though, I do want to throw a couple counterpoints out here ...

eliath said:

Why should you, a lifetime, loyal, GWF & Filsinger Games customer have to re-purchase everything you have already collected over the last 20 years?

You don't have to, and I think that point is kind of being lost here. The Stat Tracker, by and large, works without the Digital Sets. Most of what you lose in the Stat Tracker in not purchasing the Digital Sets is what I would call "fluff," and most of what you'd lose is stuff that you already have anyway from the original sets. So there's nothing saying that you have to purchase the Digital Sets, unless you want the sets like aCe 2121 which weren't really feasible to put out in card format anymore. Now if you choose to get the Digital Sets, you're going to get additional benefit from them:

You'll get professionally-colored art on every card.

You're going to get retroactive character progression for almost every edition; The aCe Trilogy included about a dozen card tweaks that could never have existed in paper format, and the NB/Subversion package will include even more.

With the Game Table, you're going to have the ability to use the cards in your Digital Sets to play COTG against Promoters from around the world (or across the state ), where that might not have been possible for most of us before.

You're going to get COTG Files entries for the wrestlers, and we'll be working to keep those updated from year to year for everyone.

The Digital Sets are a different product - there's a lot that you're going to get with them that just doesn't come in an envelope. To continue my string of analogies that aren't nearly on the proper scale, it's kind of like the re-release of Star Wars. Some people will like the new vision, some people will prefer the old one, and they're all right.

[Wildfire]

I know what your saying Eliath, and to a large extent, I agree with you. One thing to consider though, even if Filsinger Games wanted to give you a price break, they may not have the records to be able to do so. And you ARE getting alot of new stuff (as BDS listed) so its not like you're buying the exact same thing, its sorta like a special extended version of a GWF set... in fact I think BDS' anology of the Star Wars re-release is perfect!

The 'tweaks' on the characters are really cool... a move renamed here and there, guys getting just a little better or worse instead of going from Pulsar to Pulsar Prime instantly

I think that's the part I'm looking forward to most actually... my EC fed should be pulling into 2087 just about when they release the cards

One thing I DO agree with you 100% on.. I hope that at some point the aCe 2121 set will be sold digitally, as a stand alone product. Perhaps they will at some point, once the 'launch' phase is over.

[BDS]

It's in another thread, but here's Osk's take on the topic at hand. No reason to double post it, but I figured a link would do just as good.

For people who want the Cliffs Notes version, his take looks a lot like mine from this page.

[john]

For me personally it was a great investment I have kids and very little space or time to play this will give me an option, that I did not have with the cardstock sets. Tha nks to all who are responsible for this. You have also made an aCe fan out of me.

[BDS]

No, John, thank you! It's our pleasure, and I can speak for the team when I say we're glad you're enjoying it!

[steefposton]

With the new pricing out, any word on if we can buy JUST the stat tracker now(I'm wanting to get the year subscription for $30). Can I buy the launch package and just roll it over to the stat tracker year long subscription (or does the year start at the end of the 6 month launch package subscription?). I want to get it, just need to see how it's going to work. WHERE DO I PAY?