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Post by mikefortune on Feb 5, 2008 16:39:18 GMT -5
Toronto is going to open a blacks only school. This has come under heavy protest from all communities in Toronto yet the bill to allow the school to open was passed 11-10. Now I know the year in 2008 but why would we as a country allow ourselves to fall back to 1950 Alabama. Other than me thinking this is a dumb idea, it will also be publicly funded.
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Post by Matt on Feb 5, 2008 21:57:19 GMT -5
Toronto is going to open a blacks only school. This has come under heavy protest from all communities in Toronto yet the bill to allow the school to open was passed 11-10. Now I know the year in 2008 but why would we as a country allow ourselves to fall back to 1950 Alabama. Other than me thinking this is a dumb idea, it will also be publicly funded. Wow, that is just stupid. |
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Post by MikeMcKinney on Feb 5, 2008 21:59:41 GMT -5
Toronto is going to open a blacks only school. This has come under heavy protest from all communities in Toronto yet the bill to allow the school to open was passed 11-10. Now I know the year in 2008 but why would we as a country allow ourselves to fall back to 1950 Alabama. Other than me thinking this is a dumb idea, it will also be publicly funded. WOW!!! talk about taking some major steps backwards! How could this happen in this day and age. |
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Post by Matt on Feb 5, 2008 22:03:13 GMT -5
Toronto is going to open a blacks only school. This has come under heavy protest from all communities in Toronto yet the bill to allow the school to open was passed 11-10. Now I know the year in 2008 but why would we as a country allow ourselves to fall back to 1950 Alabama. Other than me thinking this is a dumb idea, it will also be publicly funded. WOW!!! talk about taking some major steps backwards! How could this happen in this day and age. Well it is Canada we're talking about here..... j/k Mike. maybe.  |
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Post by Pete Beck on Feb 5, 2008 22:35:20 GMT -5
i so badly want to post a comment on this...but i am so sure it will come out wrong...so i will just say that it is, as Matt said...stupid.
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Post by MikeMcKinney on Feb 5, 2008 22:38:11 GMT -5
WOW!!! talk about taking some major steps backwards! How could this happen in this day and age. Well it is Canada we're talking about here..... j/k Mike. maybe. Maybe.....I'm just shocked. |
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Post by DMK II on Feb 5, 2008 22:51:31 GMT -5
Leave it to Canada to do something stupid like this.  |
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Post by Splattercat on Feb 6, 2008 3:07:12 GMT -5
No S**t...The Canadian government does a lot of things that are just retarded...11-10 to make a decision like this...Writing on the wall..? Anyone..?
They need me there...I would say, "No, I refuse to allow you bunch of F*****g idiots make this blatantly bad decision...Vetoed...This vote never happened...
Icing on the cake..? Our Premier says "We'll let this go, but if we see anymore schools attempt this approach we will take action without hesitation."
You mean, as though it were happening right now..? Because...you know...it IS..?!
The 11 side of that 11-10 vote all need to be beaten....
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Post by mikefortune on Feb 6, 2008 20:09:36 GMT -5
The 11 side of that 11-10 vote all need to be beaten....[/quote]
My thought exactly. Our goverment makes no sense at all at the provincial level or municipal. They try to decriminalize pot every year. The hand gun laws are a joke and just recently that passed a law saying rub and tugs were Legal since men used them as theray to relive stress. Then they open segrated schools.
Go figure.
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Post by Chewey on Feb 6, 2008 21:25:17 GMT -5
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Post by bigeasy on Feb 8, 2008 8:29:20 GMT -5
Wow. I didn't even think Canada had black people!
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Post by TDalton on Feb 8, 2008 9:25:44 GMT -5
When I first saw that Mike posted the topic, I was thinking Ontario schools weren't going to allow Quebec students in.
Of course, that vote would have been unanimous.
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Post by Trent Lawless on Feb 8, 2008 11:16:47 GMT -5
I was on the fence about this until I read a little further. Now I'm gonna be the contrarian and say this isn't necessarily a bad idea. This is in one of the articles Chewey linked to: But others were equally passionate in favour of the school.
One teacher spoke about how at least 13 students in his class of 16 year-olds were unlikely to graduate.
Vicki McPhee, a parent, pointed out that the school would be open to everyone.
"This is not about segregation. Our children are already segregated in the public school system. No-one ever said little white children couldn't come to this school." So it would seem to me that this isn't an exclusionary tactic. It's just trying to provide a different focus to the education, kind of like some charter schools in the US do. Education is on my mind right now because my wife and I are now seriously considering homeschooling our kids, because after just a year and a half of our older son being in public schools, and even at one of the best elementary schools in the county, we're not convinced that it's the right environment for him. Nor are we comfortable with sending him to a private religious school, which is the only alternative in this area. It sounds to me like some of the parents in this situation in Canada feel their kids and neighbors' kids are marginalized and not reached the way they should be. I can relate to that since even this top-rated elementary school made promises about how they were going to accommodate for the fact that our son is reading at a vastly higher level than his peers (although he's at grade level in other areas, meaning advancing him a grade isn't really the best option -- we tried 1/2 kindergarten and 1/2 first grade classes and it was a disaster), and we've seen practically nothing from them on that front. And as a result, he's sort of regressing in his school work to doing just what's expected of him instead of what he's capable of. That's really troubling to me. At our house he shows his stuff, but at school, he's bored because he's not challenged. And the school has other priorities, obviously, and understandably. I don't expect them to drop everything for my kid. Based on that, I'm not opposed to these Canadian parents finding other ways of getting their kids what they need. And as long as the school is open to anyone who's comfortable with the type of curriculum they're offering, I don't see a problem. Education is real important, and the decision of how your kids are educated is intensely personal. I'm learning that more and more every day as I learn about home schooling. Since teaching kids at home isn't something everyone can do, and since private schools aren't something everyone can afford, I'll have to say that I'd probably have voted yes to this myself. And apparently I'll be the only one here who thinks so.  |
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Post by Splattercat on Feb 8, 2008 13:29:57 GMT -5
And this is the Argument that sticks out for me, which in this day and age I don't doubt for a second:
Anthony Hutchinson is an economist and former university professor who has been involved in a number of youth outreach and employment programmes, and is currently the director of a large services and support agency in a suburb of the city.
He agrees with those who say that Afro-Caribbean students feel bored and marginalised in many Toronto schools, but says the causes are much more complex.
"Out of the 100 or so families I worked with in Malvern, I would say 80% of the families were non-supportive of their children's education. When you'd go into a lot of the houses, there was a lot of yelling and arguing. There were lots of latchkey kids."
Honestly, I don't have kids, so yeah, it's easy for me to criticise, but really, some people shouldn't be allowed to have kids...I've seen a disturbing number of parents who literally drop their kids off at school to get rid of them for a few hours...Then when they pick them up, they yell at them to hurry up and essentially treat them as a burden rather than a blessing...
I have 2 Nieces (5 and 9) and they are really great kids who we love spending time with and we help them with their schoolwork, we let them play games with us (LOW included, the 9 year old loves LOW), video games, board games, card games...Most of all, if there is a problem at school, we have it dealt with quickly....I've heard of kids that are picked on day in and day out, but the parents don't do anything about it...They simply expect the teachers to do something, and don't care enough to address the issue (like, you know, when they're picking their kids up perhaps?)...
But like I said, my opinion on the matter doesn't carry as much weight as I'd like, because I speak of parenting when I'm not a parent...To me, it's a failure on both sides, parents and teachers...But, I'm not there, so I don't have the whole story....
Honestly though, for all the good and bad that people are talking about this idea, to me all it is is a whole new set of problems...They'll get the school open and running, and they won't have any idea what they're in for...
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Post by Trent Lawless on Feb 8, 2008 15:39:48 GMT -5
They'll get the school open and running, and they won't have any idea what they're in for... With all due respect, you don't know that. Maybe they've got a great plan in place. And one way to be certain something won't work is never to try it. I still say they should give it a shot and the taxpayers should absolutely require them to give updates and show progress. That's their right. |
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Post by Splattercat on Feb 8, 2008 17:59:31 GMT -5
Sorry, I should have worded it differently...I mentioned "to me all it is is a whole new set of problems", but I should have said "In my opinion"...
You know what they say about best laid plans....
it happens so often...People get a great idea in their head and go through the proper channels to get what they want, but it doesn't work out because they overlooked something...Again, I'm not there, so I don't know what that something is, but like I said, the writing's on the wall:
People vote on essentially splitting the school in half, and what happens..? The vote to split the school in half is split in half...
Still not convinced..? I present exhibit A: Community worker Donna Harrow who was one who originally asked the board to create the school. Here is her reaction AFTER they voted to create it:
The proposal was not for a black-focused school with only black students, teachers and curriculum, Harrow said.
"This is a school where all children could come in and be nurtured and supported into success," Harrow said angrily. "No one ever said little white children couldn't come."
Angrily..? "Little White Children"..? This is the woman who WON the decision and she's responding with a b**chy condescending attitude...Hell, she doesn't even seem happy that they're going ahead with her plan...
I hope I'm wrong, but from where I sit, this has bad written all over it...
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Post by Trent Lawless on Feb 8, 2008 18:29:02 GMT -5
Maybe it has bad written all over it because people on the outside aren't giving it even a snowball's chance in Cancun to succeed, and that makes the people doing it somewhat defensive. It can be hard to be upbeat all the time when people who may or may not have a grasp of the facts constantly assail your position (that's not directed at you, Splattercat, but at some people directly in the district this is affecting).
I had an initial knee-jerk reaction to the original post that fell in line pretty much with what the naysayers are talking about, but after I thought about it and looked into it, I changed my mind. Give it a whirl, adjust plans where necessary, and try to forge ahead positively even if people are against it. Sounds like there's a real need up there to me. Let's just hope the parents taking advantage of this are motivated enough to help make it work. That, indeed, will be the key.
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Post by Chewey on Feb 8, 2008 18:40:42 GMT -5
Sorry, I should have worded it differently...I mentioned "to me all it is is a whole new set of problems", but I should have said "In my opinion"... I still don't have enough information about this plan to be able to make a full decision on it, though I am leaning in favor of it like Mark is. However, I thought this comment was an interesting one. To you, and honestly to me and most people on this board, this may seem to be creating a whole set of new problems. To the people that this program is targeted toward, they will tell you that these problems are not new at all. On an unrelated note, this sounds a lot like the bilingual education program and the ebonics program that people have talked about in the past, and while those programs have also garnered their fair share of debate, this one seems like much more of a lightning rod. I also hope that this program can serve some level of success. |
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