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Post by Highway61Revisited on Nov 18, 2006 15:11:31 GMT -5
If you've ever read ANYTHING of mine, you would realize spot monkies do not fit the criteria of what I consider a professional wrestler.
It's art, man. You can't judge art by the bottom line but by the aesthetics. Steven Speilberg makes tons of money but that is no indication that he is the greatest director who has ever lived.
If you go around judging professional wrestling simply by the bottom line, you're doing a great dis-service to the men who went out there and told you a story.
Artists generally aren't appreciated during their lifetimes take a look at history to find that. I realize you love the WWE and like I said, that's great. But sometimes there's more to life than popularity and money. Watch the way Danielson works over Joe in the FOTC match. That's great, simplistic storytelling. It's something that's greatly lacking in the WWE today.
I'm sorry you clearly haven't seen any of the work that I have mentioned. Because if you had you wouldn't be calling these guys spot monkies. You would appreciate them for the artform that they bust their asses for.
I knew you'd bring up the college kid thing and that's fine. But if you listened to anything I said you, again, would realize that I loathe spot wrestling. I don't even like lucha libre all that much. I grew up on puroresu and that's what my scale reflects. If you'd seen any puroresu you would realize that it has nothing to do with spot wrestling and quit using that asinine argument in this conversation.
Watch WWE, enjoy it. I'm happy for you. But there's something greatly lacking in their in-ring product and anyone who's seen even a small dose of any other wrestling promotion realizes that.
I guess in America, sadly, bottom lines and popularity are all that matters. Not the beauty of what's produces but who rolls in the money. After all these years it would seem Murrow was correct in his assessment of what the television generation would become.
"Medicated, drama queen, picure perfect, numb belligerence
Narcissistic, drama queen, craving fame and all it's decadence"
- "The Outsider", A Perfect Circle
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Post by swarm on Nov 18, 2006 15:31:26 GMT -5
kid, it's fine. spot-monkey, whatever you want to call it. it's fine.
I get your point. I understand. you have great passion...you're a great poster.
it's cool. but from the only stand-point that matters, you're incorrect when you said all those guys were better than the entire WWE roster.
it's cool.
and yeah, I'm more than familiar with Perfect circle...partied with them when they played with the deftones twice. it's cool.
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Post by Highway61Revisited on Nov 18, 2006 15:41:32 GMT -5
I'm assuming we're just gonna have to agree to disagree. We're looking at things from a completely different perspective. You're the suit and I'm the artist (for lack of a better analogy).
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Post by swarm on Nov 18, 2006 16:35:33 GMT -5
well I'm an artist too...I was a graphic design major and do side work all the time...I also write on the side as well...I just seem to have a firmer grasp of the sole "concept" behind "wrestling", which is to turn a "profit". that's it.
it's not ballet man. it's pro wrestling.
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Post by blueraider2 on Nov 18, 2006 16:40:22 GMT -5
i decided to vote no.
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Post by BDS on Nov 18, 2006 16:51:03 GMT -5
Doesn't ROH turn a profit? Someone correct me on this one if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure ROH is operating on the right side of the ledger.
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Post by Splattercat on Nov 19, 2006 3:24:52 GMT -5
There are wrestlers working in the world today that make more money where they are, than if they worked for WWE...The bottom line according to them is, they're getting a helluva deal...Ask them if they want to give up seeing their families or working healthy after the next 5 years to make less money...
WWE may be the be-all end-all for the wrestling BUSINESS, but as far as the performers go, for some it's really just not worth it...Ask AJ Styles and Christian Cage...And you can't seriously tell me that it's worth making less money to work 11 times harder for WWE...
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Post by stephenvegas on Nov 19, 2006 4:30:57 GMT -5
I voted no.
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Post by Knapik on Nov 19, 2006 5:02:46 GMT -5
There are wrestlers working in the world today that make more money where they are, than if they worked for WWE...The bottom line according to them is, they're getting a helluva deal...Ask them if they want to give up seeing their families or working healthy after the next 5 years to make less money... WWE may be the be-all end-all for the wrestling BUSINESS, but as far as the performers go, for some it's really just not worth it...Ask AJ Styles and Christian Cage...And you can't seriously tell me that it's worth making less money to work 11 times harder for WWE... Extremely smart post. Simple and true. Think Angle's not happy making huge bucks and not having to torture his body anymore? |
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Post by Knapik on Nov 19, 2006 5:16:31 GMT -5
I'd have to say 'no' here... Id have a hard time coming up with good matchups
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Post by Chris Ingersoll on Nov 19, 2006 10:58:32 GMT -5
I have no idea how to vote, but I put the ETA on this thread being locked at around 7PM tonight... A good guess, but I unofficially took the last couple of days off and Jim started the thread. Outside of a few (now-removed) posts, it's been a fairly decent debate, so the thread lives. |
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Post by swarm on Nov 19, 2006 12:10:37 GMT -5
There are wrestlers working in the world today that make more money where they are, than if they worked for WWE...The bottom line according to them is, they're getting a helluva deal...Ask them if they want to give up seeing their families or working healthy after the next 5 years to make less money... WWE may be the be-all end-all for the wrestling BUSINESS, but as far as the performers go, for some it's really just not worth it...Ask AJ Styles and Christian Cage...And you can't seriously tell me that it's worth making less money to work 11 times harder for WWE... Extremely smart post. Simple and true. Think Angle's not happy making huge bucks and not having to torture his body anymore? great point Knapik, but you can't use Angle here...he already has a ton of money, so he doesn't qualify... what about the fish who never had any money? 99% of TNA would give their right arm to be signed by Vince and make some real money, get some real benefits. |
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Post by Splattercat on Nov 19, 2006 13:11:30 GMT -5
I honestly don't know (and offhand, am not sure if I could find out) how much Paul London is and Kid Kash was making compared to the two companies...Chances are they're making more in WWE, but how much more is anyone's guess...When Paul London goes back to TNA (I think it's inevitable, but that's just me), he will actually be a bigger star because he's added a WWE Tag team and Cruiserweight titles to his resume (Which Mike Tenay will note in his introduction for sure)...
It's obvious to everyone that not everyone on TNA would have a lot to offer WWE (which Samoa Joe said of himself in an early interview)...Alex Shelley for example is hugely popular and entertaining in TNA, but in WWE, he would so be lost in the crowd, and wouldn't be nearly as entertaining in my opinion...
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Post by swarm on Nov 19, 2006 14:02:18 GMT -5
I agree. not every TNA guy is going to succeed in the WWE and vice versa. look at Christian...huge star in WWE, huge bust in TNA. Paul London is a nobody in the WWE yet I can see him being a major guy in the X Division in TNA.
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Post by Splattercat on Nov 19, 2006 14:33:01 GMT -5
Nah, Christian is bigger in TNA...Still hasn't lost a match (you know what I mean) if I'm not mistaken, though I've been out of the loop...He's just being a victim of TNA booking...WWE could have made him as big as Edge, and were on the right track to doing so (smaller guy, daredevil, has a big bodyguard...Sounds like the road a certain Heartbreak Kid was on no..?)
The point is, Christian does (I believe this was confirmed) make more as a star in TNA than he did as a mid-carder in WWE, AND he gets to live comfortably with a short drive to work, and be with the wife and kids...To me, that's the bottom line right there....
Of course, that's not going to be the deal for everyone...Monty Brown is certainly not the case...He'll make a ton more in WWE, and probably won't mind the travel considering he'll (hopefully) be a huge star within a year and the 6 figures will be worth it for him...
Based on my own perception/opinion, I could probably hypothesize on a per-person basis who would be better where...WWE has the cash for sure...But they don't have room for everyone, nor do they want everyone available...For Alex Shelley, I'm glad he's doing what he's doing...I don't want to see him tagged with some random cruiserweight so he can be not as cool on Smackdown...
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Post by swarm on Nov 19, 2006 15:03:49 GMT -5
dude, Chritian was a STAR in the WWE. win/loss record aside, he was super over. he's a bum in TNA.
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Post by Knapik on Nov 20, 2006 0:28:07 GMT -5
Extremely smart post. Simple and true. Think Angle's not happy making huge bucks and not having to torture his body anymore? great point Knapik, but you can't use Angle here...he already has a ton of money, so he doesn't qualify... what about the fish who never had any money? 99% of TNA would give their right arm to be signed by Vince and make some real money, get some real benefits. Oh no, you're totally right here. 99% of them would jump in a heartbeat to the big show. I think those with families wouldn't hesitate... an opportunity to provide for your children's children's children would be hard to resist. But some can make just as much money in TNA and on the Indy scene... not a lot, but they are there. If I had the opportunity to either A) Work in the WWE and make a million a year or B) work in Ring of Honor and spend a lot of time in Japan and make 400k a year, I'd probably take the Indy/Japan route. If I had a family and we lived paycheck to paycheck and I worked the indy scene and the WWE wanted to make me and my family rich? I'd be there in a heartbeat. |
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