Add 1 question.

[GalactiKing]

Well the issue is.....not what move is it easier to pin with (obviously that would be End of All Things) the issue is...tht the Eye Cleaver is more devastating just because a guy hooks the other guy's leg.

[BDS]

I look at it like this:

The finisher rating is simply the likelihood that that move draws a pinfall. Bigger finishers are either harder to escape, ala the MASTERLOCK, or totally debilitating in the short term, like THE END OF ALL THINGS. Neither one does any long term damage, though, unlike the Eye Cleaver.

Then, of course, my worldview is totally thrown out of whack by guys like JJ Smooth, Grovel, and the Betrayer. When I stopped my original playing of COTG, Circa 2097, the Add 1 was a devastating and potentially crippling move. Now, in many cases it's just a poor man's finisher, and I'm still trying to figure out how I feel about that.

[BDS]

troy said:

the issue is...tht the Eye Cleaver is more devastating just because a guy hooks the other guy's leg.

See, I'm okay with two tokens there. You get the first one because the Eye Cleaver is vicious and devastating. You get the second one because of all of the energy expended in the kickout or break, same as with any other pin attempt.

[dukedave]

troy said:

The real issue is..at least for me before I stopped playing.......I was getting too many matches ending by unable to continue(a very rare result in real wrestling) due to the double add.

OK, what the heck are you talking about?? I do not recall the instruction booklet or anything else mentioning unable to continue or double add()

[MikeMcKinney]

Any pin attempt adds a token no matter what the moves is. so the move is irrelevant.

[Wildfire]

I agree with Mark.. I think adding two tokens for 1 move is too powerful.. I've never done it, nor will I.

[offspring515]

YOU'RE PLAYING IT WRONG! OH MY GOD YOU'RE PLAYING IT WRONG!

Feh. It's your game promoter, but I personally prescribe to adding 1 for the move and 1 for a pin attempt.

[mft]

wildfire said:

I agree with Mark.. I think adding two tokens for 1 move is too powerful.. I've never done it, nor will I.

Well, technically you don't always add two tokens for the one move (if it's an add 1). That wrestler could roll a hurt -2 on his Level 3 Defense...

And do agree with some..an add 1 move should be special, not on every other card.

[MikeMcKinney]

mft said:

wildfire said:

I agree with Mark.. I think adding two tokens for 1 move is too powerful.. I've never done it, nor will I.

Well, technically you don't always add two tokens for the one move (if it's an add 1). That wrestler could roll a hurt -2 on his Level 3 Defense...

And do agree with some..an add 1 move should be special, not on every other card.

this guy knows his stuff..

[dbfnq]

markcpc said:

If you add 1 for the move and then add 1 for the PIN attempt, you're making that non-finishing move more powerful than an (unsuccessful) finisher.

Depends what you mean by 'more powerful'. I don't think it's more likely to win the match, but it has a small chance of being more fatiguing.

Five times out of six, you don't roll pin on L3D and the Add-1 move is flat-out weaker than even a +0 finisher.

This is like arguing about whether the Exvenge or the End Of All Things is stronger. The Exvenge has a small chance of being better, so it's potentially more powerful. But the End is overall more powerful.

[blueraider2]

so do add one to the pin or the finisher ? always it was one to the pin myself.

[offspring515]

And add one move adds 1 to the opponent's pin fatigue Nizealy.

[jefft]

cotg.proboards12.com/index.cgi?board=misc&action=display&thread=1171249622&page=1

Here is the most recent thread about this subject with 'official' answer from Tom himself. The original Vengeance move description is, frankly, pretty clear to me anyway. Yes, an add 1 move can 'potentially' add 2 tokens - I don't have a problem with this as that is what the moves are built for - TO TAKE ALOT OUT OF THE OPPONENT WITH ONE MOVE.

Just because it can potentially add 2 tokens DOES NOT make it more powerful than a finisher in my opinion. There are slightly different game mechanics involved there as I see it.

[swarm]

jefft said:

cotg.proboards12.com/index.cgi?board=misc&action=display&thread=1171249622&page=1

Here is the most recent thread about this subject with 'official' answer from Tom himself. The original Vengeance move description is, frankly, pretty clear to me anyway. Yes, an add 1 move can 'potentially' add 2 tokens - I don't have a problem with this as that is what the moves are built for - TO TAKE ALOT OUT OF THE OPPONENT WITH ONE MOVE.

Just because it can potentially add 2 tokens DOES NOT make it more powerful than a finisher in my opinion. There are slightly different game mechanics involved there as I see it.

Great post. If you don't play how Tom says you hate Tom. New rule.

[Aquinas]

Makes perfect sense to me. And that's the bottom line because Tom Filsinger said so.

And I'll always stand by a finisher -- even a (0) finisher -- being more powerful because it is a guaranteed pin attempt.

[offspring515]

Not playing like Tom is like admitting you like communism and puppy kicking. Do YOU want to be a commie puppy kicker?

[Darth Turkish]

Mark, try this one: take the Thai -styled kicks to the side of the knee used in MMA. One, by itself, is not that damaging or not too critical to ending the match (but it could). Now do those nice snappy kicks three or four more times and the receiver is in for more trouble (ask Severn, Varlens, et al.), Those kicks, while paniful and niggling little annoyances, turn out to be big stuff eventually. That still does not take away from the fact that one big crunching knee to the chin has a better chance of ending the match in one fell swoop.

[jefft]

aquinas said:

Makes perfect sense to me. And that's the bottom line because Tom Filsinger said so.

And I'll always stand by a finisher -- even a (0) finisher -- being more powerful because it is a guaranteed pin attempt.

Exactly. That's why guys with more than 1 finisher, even (0) finishers, are so deadly. Constant pin attempts mean more chances to lose, even against awesome defensive wrestlers like Brute.

[jefft]

swarm said:

jefft said:

cotg.proboards12.com/index.cgi?board=misc&action=display&thread=1171249622&page=1

Here is the most recent thread about this subject with 'official' answer from Tom himself. The original Vengeance move description is, frankly, pretty clear to me anyway. Yes, an add 1 move can 'potentially' add 2 tokens - I don't have a problem with this as that is what the moves are built for - TO TAKE ALOT OUT OF THE OPPONENT WITH ONE MOVE.

Just because it can potentially add 2 tokens DOES NOT make it more powerful than a finisher in my opinion. There are slightly different game mechanics involved there as I see it.

Great post. If you don't play how Tom says you hate Tom. New rule.

I figure Tom knows what he's doing. The add 1 rule has now been 'playtested' for years and it doesn't seem to be 'breaking' the game.

Mark...I never knew you hated Tom so much... ;D

[jefft]

turkish said:

Mark, try this one: take the Thai -styled kicks to the side of the knee used in MMA. One, by itself, is not that damaging or not too critical to ending the match (but it could). Now do those nice snappy kicks three or four more times and the receiver is in for more trouble (ask Severn, Varlens, et al.), Those kicks, while paniful and niggling little annoyances, turn out to be big stuff eventually. That still does not take away from the fact that one big crunching knee to the chin has a better chance of ending the match in one fell swoop.

Great example.