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Post by dukedave on May 18, 2007 11:45:45 GMT -5
This has always bugged me and don't know the proper way to handle it. When a wrestler rolls a move with - 3 add 1 I know you roll on level 3 defense. But if the level 3 defense roll is PIN do you add 1 and then roll the pin and then add 1 after pin for a total of two. I have always just rolled the pin and then just added one after the pin attempt. Adding two would seem to be too much. Is there a specific way to do this.
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Post by swarm on May 18, 2007 12:09:52 GMT -5
We talked about this before...it's somewhere on here...
I always add 1 before I roll...if the opponent then rolls pin and kicks out he gets another token. Just seems like an Add1 wouldn't supercede an added fatigue. So that guy would get 2.
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Post by kaz on May 18, 2007 12:13:32 GMT -5
We talked about this before...it's somewhere on here... I always add 1 before I roll...if the opponent then rolls pin and kicks out he gets another token. Just seems like an Add1 wouldn't supercede an added fatigue. So that guy would get 2. Thats the same way I do it. |
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Post by Aquinas on May 18, 2007 12:31:32 GMT -5
Same way I've always done it too.
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Post by blueraider2 on May 18, 2007 12:39:55 GMT -5
i always add one after the first pin attempt after a add one roll myself.
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Post by Trent Lawless on May 18, 2007 12:44:08 GMT -5
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you add 1 for the move and then add 1 for the PIN attempt, you're making that non-finishing move more powerful than an (unsuccessful) finisher. Makes no sense to me to do it that way.
There is some discord in COTG-land about this. Wish I knew where that thread was to direct you to it.
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Post by Aquinas on May 18, 2007 12:46:45 GMT -5
I just think it makes sense the way it is -- the move is particularly draining or powerful that it hurts you more receiving it -- thus the pin token immediately attaches to the wrestler. And after every pin attempt, you add one.....so yeah, it's two tokens total....but it falls in perfect line with the mechanics.
A finisher will always be superior because it's an AUTOMATIC pin attempt. An Add 1 is by no means a guarantee you'll get pinned -- you could get that token and only be on lvl 2 defense.
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Post by sickman on May 18, 2007 12:49:34 GMT -5
I just think it makes sense the way it is -- the move is particularly draining or powerful that it hurts you more receiving it -- thus the pin token immediately attaches to the wrestler. And after every pin attempt, you add one.....so yeah, it's two tokens total....but it falls in perfect line with the mechanics. A finisher will always be superior because it's an AUTOMATIC pin attempt. An Add 1 is by no means a guarantee you'll get pinned -- you could get that token and only be on lvl 2 defense. good post QFT |
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Post by mft on May 18, 2007 13:03:47 GMT -5
I just think it makes sense the way it is -- the move is particularly draining or powerful that it hurts you more receiving it -- thus the pin token immediately attaches to the wrestler. And after every pin attempt, you add one.....so yeah, it's two tokens total....but it falls in perfect line with the mechanics. A finisher will always be superior because it's an AUTOMATIC pin attempt. An Add 1 is by no means a guarantee you'll get pinned -- you could get that token and only be on lvl 2 defense. Agreed...nice explanation from aquinas. Totally agree... |
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Post by MikeMcKinney on May 18, 2007 13:13:32 GMT -5
We talked about this before...it's somewhere on here... I always add 1 before I roll...if the opponent then rolls pin and kicks out he gets another token. Just seems like an Add1 wouldn't supercede an added fatigue. So that guy would get 2. I've always done it this way. |
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Post by Trent Lawless on May 18, 2007 14:07:28 GMT -5
It's a fine explanation, but I still don't buy it. A finisher just should be stronger, in my book. I've already said why elsewhere and I won't bother dredging all that up again.
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Post by swarm on May 18, 2007 14:08:56 GMT -5
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you add 1 for the move and then add 1 for the PIN attempt, you're making that non-finishing move more powerful than an (unsuccessful) finisher. Makes no sense to me to do it that way. There is some discord in COTG-land about this. Wish I knew where that thread was to direct you to it. But those are the rules. Separately: *Add 1 means Add 1 then roll on Level 3 Defense. *Pin means if you kick out you add one token. So if you happen to roll these back to back it's add 2. Neither one cancels the other out. I liked the way Aquinas explained it too. |
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Post by GalactiKing on May 18, 2007 16:19:26 GMT -5
I agree with Mark especially with add 1's beocming a dime a dozen.
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Post by Trent Lawless on May 18, 2007 17:30:03 GMT -5
But think about this:
Monolith hits END OF ALL THINGS and the guy kicks out, amazingly enough. Fair enough. 1 token on the defensive guy.
Just for the sake of argument and nostalgia, I'm going to use Vengeance's Eye Cleaver as my Add 1 example. He does it to his opponent (I'm fine with add 1 there), but then somehow turns it into a pinning combination. Then you add another one? The Eye Cleaver is tougher than THE END OF ALL THINGS?
No, it's not.
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Post by Knapik on May 18, 2007 19:01:07 GMT -5
Yeah but then you're saying that the Eye Cleaver isn't as tough as ANY finisher, whether it be from The Creeper or Sir Ender. You're also saying that all finishers are the same strength (because they all just add 1 token.) The strength of the finisher is in the automatic PIN try and the modifier that goes along with it. A particularly vicious Eye Cleaver or spear from Payback could definitely be as strong as a (0) finisher in my mind.
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Post by GalactiKing on May 18, 2007 19:53:12 GMT -5
The real issue is..at least for me before I stopped playing.......I was getting too many matches ending by unable to continue(a very rare result in real wrestling) due to the double add.
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Post by Trent Lawless on May 18, 2007 19:55:06 GMT -5
A particularly vicious Eye Cleaver or spear from Payback could definitely be as strong as a (0) finisher in my mind. Absolutely. That's why they both should be worth just one token. They could be "as strong as," not stronger. If the creator of the card hadn't intended the finishing move to have a cover or submission attempt follow it, then you just don't make it a finisher. Ursa Major 2092, Black Hole Bart, J.J. Smooth, and others had no finishers. They weren't good enough to have them. The fact that it's a finisher makes it the biggest damn move in their arsenal, QED. (Holy crap, Latin in a futuristic fake wrestling game discussion. I'd better shut up soon. Which is probably what most people want me to do, anyway!) All right, I'll be done. Nobody's changing my mind on this, but I agree it's not the official rule. Allow me my rebellion. |
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Post by Knapik on May 18, 2007 20:11:16 GMT -5
Haha well what are your thoughts on Comedy's add 2, Mark? Crap that could be 3 tokens!  |
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Post by Darth Turkish on May 18, 2007 20:24:39 GMT -5
Mark makes a good point. I think that Add1 moves are too frequently used though.
ANd I was about to ask him about TK's add 1
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Post by swarm on May 18, 2007 20:25:49 GMT -5
But think about this: Monolith hits END OF ALL THINGS and the guy kicks out, amazingly enough. Fair enough. 1 token on the defensive guy. Just for the sake of argument and nostalgia, I'm going to use Vengeance's Eye Cleaver as my Add 1 example. He does it to his opponent (I'm fine with add 1 there), but then somehow turns it into a pinning combination. Then you add another one? The Eye Cleaver is tougher than THE END OF ALL THINGS? No, it's not. You're missing the point. The Eye Cleaver isn't a +5. I don't see why this is so complicated. |
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IPPON!!