Havoc

[dbfnq]

sharkbowl said:

Really? So you're "basically" saying "No, you didn't say that but because I hate Swarm I'm going to make something up, see it that way, convince myself that's what Swarm meant, then flame him for it."

I don't hate you. You're not worth hating. And if you think what I've written is flaming, you may be a little on the sensitive side.

sharkbowl said:

Then you edit your post to add that Swarm's "attitude" is bad for the game.

That was in the original post. The edit was the paragraph above it, if it matters. I didn't realise editing posts was such a problem for you.

cakejedi said:

Swarm does not need me or anyone else to stand up for him, but I have to say that there is no greater ambassador for CotG than Swarm. No one can equal his passion for the game or his loyalty to Tom. His absence is a loss to these boards.

I disagree. I'm not denying his contributions to COTG, but I believe the negatives outweigh the positives. There are plenty of people who are enthusiastic supporters of the hobby and are capable of a civil discussion. Mark, Kris, BDS, Werner, Todd...

sharkbowl said:

An underhook drop, by basic definiton is starting out like the Pedigree and flipping the guy up into the air and onto his back.

Huh? That would be an underhook piledriver or powerbomb, depending on landing position. A double underhook drop suggests you put your opponent in a double underhook position and drop...which is the Pedigree.

sharkbowl said:

The Unprettier would have to have the word "backward" in it somewhere. Twisting backward underhook drop or something.

Because 'reverse' and 'backward' aren't synonyms or anything.

I think we can agree the intended move is arguable based on its description. But naming wrestling moves is not an exact science.

[jefft]

sharkbowl said:

jefft said:

Fact: A Pedigree is a double underhook facebuster.

An Unprettier is the closest finishing move I can think of to an inverted double underhook facebuster. If Tom intended a reverse double underhook drop to be a Pedigree...he described it incorrectly.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebuster

I disagree. But I see your point as well. An underhook drop, by basic definiton is starting out like the Pedigree and flipping the guy up into the air and onto his back.

So a reverse double underhook drop would mean vs. throwing the opponent up into the air from a double underhook and onto his back, the opposite of that would be to drive him down face first into the mat from the double underhook lock.

The Unprettier would have to have the word "backward" in it somewhere. Twisting backward underhook drop or something.

Ok, I see how you're looking at it. We'll just agree to disagree.

[jefft]

Well, I'm disagreeing with 22 and he's been civil to me.

[jefft]

sharkbowl said:

And just for the record, Sly Drury reminds me a lot of Edge and US Male has some John Cena in him there somewhere...maybe that's just me.

I can see Sly Drury and Edge definitely.

When I think of John Cena's attitude and power/agility combo, I think Pegasus.

[sharkbowl]

jefft said:

sharkbowl said:

And just for the record, Sly Drury reminds me a lot of Edge and US Male has some John Cena in him there somewhere...maybe that's just me.

I can see Sly Drury and Edge definitely.

When I think of John Cena's attitude and power/agility combo, I think Pegasus.

Yeah you make a good point. No way is US Male anywhere close to being as good or strong as Cena but I see some of the same moves in the move-set. The finisher for one...I really like US Male a lot. For a guy who could have easily been thrown away years ago he turned out pretty sweet and in the thick of what I find to be the most interesting feud of 2122. Great character.

Pegasus always remindned me of HHH. Now Disaster reminds me of HHH kind of. Weird, I know.

[Wildfire]

sharkbowl said:

Just for the record FALLEN DREAMS is the Pedigree. Obviously Tom can't use those names so he uses the closest description as can be.

We just had a discussion about this somewhere (since its not in this thread, it must have been the Deuce)... I thought of the Fallen Dreams as the Pedigree to... but it was pointed out to me that it would likely be a 'double underhook drop" rather than 'reverse underhook drop"... the ''reverse' part points to a move much like the unprettier, when you think about it.

[Wildfire]

This might be a better topic for another thread, but wouldn't it be sorta odd for Tom to be basing GWF guys on current WWE talent, since I'm pretty sure he's said on multiple occasions he doesn't follow current wrestling?

I remember specifially just before 2121 came out he posted asking for what new moves people were using, so he could work them in, for instance.

[jefft]

wildfire said:

This might be a better topic for another thread, but wouldn't it be sorta odd for Tom to be basing GWF guys on current WWE talent, since I'm pretty sure he's said on multiple occasions he doesn't follow current wrestling?

I remember specifially just before 2121 came out he posted asking for what new moves people were using, so he could work them in, for instance.

Well, I don't think he's necessarily 'basing' the new Havoc on Randy Orton or any new guys. The original question was, "Does he 'remind' you of Randy Orton."

Also, I think Tom wants new moves just for variety and to keep the 'look' of the game current.

[Wildfire]

Actually '22' specifially said Havoc was designed based on Randy Orton, not just that he reminded him of Randy Orton.

I agree 100% with what you said, btw.

[azfan]

Ha, Pegasus reminds me of HHH too 22.

[deadlikeme]

Yeah FALLEN DREAMS sounds more like an Unprettier to me. Didn't Tom say that TANCKED was the Pedigree ar some point after the 2121 release? I thought I remembered it before he basically left the board to take some time off. Anyways, I could see Havoc being like Orton in a few ways, but Orton is arrogant while it seems Havoc is more like a Goth Kid who just wants attention, and blames all his problems on society. As far as his moveset goes it is pretty generic, but the Gothic Tomb Spike is also used by Christian Cage. Orton has just been more in your face with it by putting legends out of action.

Sly Drury always reminded me of the Kevin Nash or Test type character(I guess you could put Lance Hoyt in there too). The changing of his finisher puts that more in my mind, but his step up to the upper-tier and his attitude really seem to have gone a little more the Edge way if we're just talking personality.

[Aquinas]

deadlikeme said:

Yeah FALLEN DREAMS sounds more like an Unprettier to me. Didn't Tom say that TANCKED was the Pedigree ar some point after the 2121 release? I thought I remembered it before he basically left the board to take some time off. Anyways, I could see Havoc being like Orton in a few ways, but Orton is arrogant while it seems Havoc is more like a Goth Kid who just wants attention, and blames all his problems on society. As far as his moveset goes it is pretty generic, but the Gothic Tomb Spike is also used by Christian Cage. Orton has just been more in your face with it by putting legends out of action.

Sly Drury always reminded me of the Kevin Nash or Test type character(I guess you could put Lance Hoyt in there too). The changing of his finisher puts that more in my mind, but his step up to the upper-tier and his attitude really seem to have gone a little more the Edge way if we're just talking personality.

Please, not Test or Hoyt! I would hope Drury is infinitely more charismatic/interesting than that!

Kevin Nash, I could deal with.

[deadlikeme]

aquinas said:

deadlikeme said:

Yeah FALLEN DREAMS sounds more like an Unprettier to me. Didn't Tom say that TANCKED was the Pedigree ar some point after the 2121 release? I thought I remembered it before he basically left the board to take some time off. Anyways, I could see Havoc being like Orton in a few ways, but Orton is arrogant while it seems Havoc is more like a Goth Kid who just wants attention, and blames all his problems on society. As far as his moveset goes it is pretty generic, but the Gothic Tomb Spike is also used by Christian Cage. Orton has just been more in your face with it by putting legends out of action.

Sly Drury always reminded me of the Kevin Nash or Test type character(I guess you could put Lance Hoyt in there too). The changing of his finisher puts that more in my mind, but his step up to the upper-tier and his attitude really seem to have gone a little more the Edge way if we're just talking personality.

Please, not Test or Hoyt! I would hope Drury is infinitely more charismatic/interesting than that!

Kevin Nash, I could deal with.

Yeah I think his 2119 card I just got that impression added with the fact that he never really did very well for me. After Thantos was gone he just seemed more like Epoch's bodyguard. Now with 2122 he's one of my favorites so I think he developed his in in ring charisma and mic skills ;D

[johnnyreb]

i voted no but i didn't take the time to check it out is all.