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Post by canadianpittbull on Nov 9, 2006 10:09:47 GMT -5
Hey now Trav, remember this is the era of the George Lucas rewrites anything could be possible.... ;D
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Post by gwffantrav on Nov 9, 2006 10:19:51 GMT -5
Hey now Trav, remember this is the era of the George Lucas rewrites anything could be possible.... ;D I say if their are storylines....it's a work  POWERFULLY BUILT!!! |
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Post by Splattercat on Nov 9, 2006 10:21:50 GMT -5
Hmm...I dunno, considering Monolith's #1 fan said he was terribly over-rated, I'll have to go Dr. Death... |
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Post by Mike M on Nov 9, 2006 10:21:57 GMT -5
Just a question: Was the decision for LOW and COTG not to be mixed before or after Dr. Death made Monolith just another Victim?  I have spoken to Tom about this subject a number of times. He's acknowledged that people will do what they want to do when they play the game- hence his "it's up to you, Promoter" catchphrase. However, I know that he always has felt that the GWF is the pinnacle of "real" wrestling- which is why the best card stats/mechanics are reserved for GWF cards and not CPC or aCe. Those feelings of his translate to LOW- he believes that the GWF is the top of the heap. Heck, the GWF in 2121 is supposed to be better than GWF 2087 or GWF 2074. Trust me, Screw was downgraded for Early Classics, and if we had done a POW series, I wanted to give Screw a 3(0) PIN and Tom told me that he wanted to save that mechanic. Dr. Death beating Monolith brought all of this to a head, simply because of all the hype around Monolith and the fact that the first character to give him a loss at G-con wasn't Endgame or Thantos or Thunder.... it was Doctor freakin' Death. No offense to the Death fans out there, but he is hardly Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Bruno, Buddy Rogers or Harley Race. It made for a great GalactiCon story, but I can understand why Tom didn't like it. At the end of the day, you can do what you want with the game. Ultimately, the cards use the same mechanics, but the creative team does NOT attempt to balance LOW with COTG- it's the equivilant of 2 different D&D realms- or maybe 2 different d20 game systems. Sure they work together from a mechanics standpoint (which allows you to run "dream" matches), but they're not balanced for playability together. I know that Tommy can appreciate this.... and I'm guessing that the rest of you can too. |
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Post by canadianpittbull on Nov 9, 2006 10:22:33 GMT -5
Hey now Trav, remember this is the era of the George Lucas rewrites anything could be possible.... ;D I say if their are storylines....it's a work POWERFULLY BUILT!!! I guess things have evolved from the Early Classics up to now and if Real Wrestling influences the game/designer then with the current Sports Entertainment era I guess that would make it a "work" now. Maybe not in the humble beginnings and the early years of the GWF but now totally work! |
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Post by Mike M on Nov 9, 2006 10:38:57 GMT -5
I say if their are storylines....it's a work POWERFULLY BUILT!!! I guess things have evolved from the Early Classics up to now and if Real Wrestling influences the game/designer then with the current Sports Entertainment era I guess that would make it a "work" now. Maybe not in the humble beginnings and the early years of the GWF but now totally work! I know that Tom, Mark and Kris write the game editions under the presumption that everything that happens is "real"- no "fake" wrestling, no "works" and no "kayfabe". Again, you can play the game however you want- but that's not how the game is intended to be played/read. |
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Post by gatekeeper on Nov 9, 2006 10:40:08 GMT -5
Great post by MarkCPC. He absolutely nailed it.
People that think a conversion chart is crazy talk, Tom actually considered doing it after Dr. Death beat Monolith.
We have a conversion chart for females when they wrestle males right? Why? Because their card is designed to fight other girls. Just as LOW cards are designed to fight other LOW cards and COTG cards are designed to fight other COTG cards.
Yes, they all have the same basic game mechanics. But the female conversion chart spawned (I think) when Murdok's first ever match at G-Con was when Swarm (using Murdok) lost to Anaxis. It was ridiculous. A conversion chart would be needed to really have a true "official" match IMO.
And yes, Tom does consider the GWF to be real. I've heard him say this point blank on many occasions at G-Con.
And like the earlier posts said, Monolith is an Ani-man who's had the Eugenics Project done to him as well as an Aethran cleansing. If Steve Williams can beat him, it doesn't say much for any of the COTG cards.
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Post by Chris Ingersoll on Nov 9, 2006 10:41:30 GMT -5
Actually, I thought that was mentioned in the original handbook that it wasn't predetermined. Am I mistaken on that? Also, thread moved. Not everyone in wrestling told ya the truth now Chris...you know "Kayfabe" I had considered that possibility, but I like the fantasy of it being real... ...wait, did that make any sense?  |
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Post by swarm on Nov 9, 2006 10:41:58 GMT -5
Hey now Trav, remember this is the era of the George Lucas rewrites anything could be possible.... ;D I say if their are storylines....it's a work POWERFULLY BUILT!!! well I say if there are storylines, then their world is still real... It's what Tom said. So that's the final answer. Strong. |
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Post by gwffantrav on Nov 9, 2006 10:43:50 GMT -5
And like the earlier posts said, Monolith is an Ani-man who's had the Eugenics Project done to him as well as an Aethran cleansing. And no one...please don't talk about off the wall Memphis gimmicks any longer!!! ;D |
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Post by gwffantrav on Nov 9, 2006 10:44:15 GMT -5
Not everyone in wrestling told ya the truth now Chris...you know "Kayfabe" I had considered that possibility, but I like the fantasy of it being real... ...wait, did that make any sense? I think it's because you live in a fantasy land Chris! lol jk |
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Post by gwffantrav on Nov 9, 2006 10:44:34 GMT -5
Great post by MarkCPC. He absolutely nailed it. People that think a conversion chart is crazy talk, Tom actually considered doing it after Dr. Death beat Monolith. We have a conversion chart for females when they wrestle males right? Why? Because their card is designed to fight other girls. Just as LOW cards are designed to fight other LOW cards and COTG cards are designed to fight other COTG cards. . So it should be safe to assume you'd like a conversion chart for Frank Gotch or George Hackenschmidt since they are from an entirely different wrestling era as well? Only makes sense...read one of my posts earlier. |
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Post by Chris Ingersoll on Nov 9, 2006 10:44:59 GMT -5
And like the earlier posts said, Monolith is an Ani-man who's had the Eugenics Project done to him as well as an Aethran cleansing. And no one...please don't talk about off the wall Memphis gimmicks any longer!!! ;D Does Strutter still have the Transevolver? Maybe Monolith could be further "upgraded"... |
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Post by swarm on Nov 9, 2006 10:47:16 GMT -5
And no one...please don't talk about off the wall Memphis gimmicks any longer!!! ;D Does Strutter still have the Transevolver? Maybe Monolith could be further "upgraded"... no. It was destroyed or something. Tom has said he is done w the TE. It had it's day. Tom isn't big about bringing back old hat. He still regrets bringing back Spike. |
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Post by cakejedi on Nov 9, 2006 10:48:27 GMT -5
I did not vote because I do not have the Dr. Death card. But this is a fun poll. It reminds me of the old WWF vs NWA days when fans debated endlessly who was better: Hogan or Flair. Everyone had an opinion, but no one could be proved true or false because at the time, Hogan and Flair were never going to wrestle each other. These kinds of debates are fun to me As for Dr. Death beating Monolith at Galacticon, the dice DON'T lie, but they sure can do some crazy things!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In my fed, Latasha has beaten Disaster twice!!!!! Now there is no way that Latasha is a better wrestler than Disaster. But Disaster is 0-2 vs Latasha and has yet to capture the Galaxian Championship. But Latasha is 2-0 vs Disaster and a 3 Time Galaxian Champion. Again, the dice don't lie, but they can do crazy things. |
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Post by swarm on Nov 9, 2006 10:49:57 GMT -5
Great post by MarkCPC. He absolutely nailed it. People that think a conversion chart is crazy talk, Tom actually considered doing it after Dr. Death beat Monolith. We have a conversion chart for females when they wrestle males right? Why? Because their card is designed to fight other girls. Just as LOW cards are designed to fight other LOW cards and COTG cards are designed to fight other COTG cards. . So it should be safe to assume you'd like a conversion chart for Frank Gotch or George Hackenschmidt since they are from an entirely different wrestling era as well? Only makes sense...read one of my posts earlier. Like a broken pencil you're missing the point... those guys are real...it doesn't matter about era's...real is real. Fantasy is fantasy... a genetically altered An-Man who had a cleansing would realistically murder anyone from LOW. I don't see why this is so hard to grasp. |
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Post by gwffantrav on Nov 9, 2006 10:50:48 GMT -5
So it should be safe to assume you'd like a conversion chart for Frank Gotch or George Hackenschmidt since they are from an entirely different wrestling era as well? Only makes sense...read one of my posts earlier. Like a broken pencil you're missing the point... those guys are real...it doesn't matter about era's...real is real. Fantasy is fantasy... a genetically altered An-Man who had a cleansing would realistically murder anyone from LOW. I don't see why this is so hard to grasp. But the point is...when he had the chance at G-Con...he choked! And Genetically altered Animen who had a Cleansing...I still say it smells of Jerry Jarrett booking! |
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Post by Tournament Master on Nov 9, 2006 10:55:16 GMT -5
Crazy upsets can happen, its the luck of the roll. The Murdok loss to Anaxis was with the conversion chart in place. I'm sure Monolith could lose to Koko B Ware in one match. But if you did a series of matches, Monolith would come out on top in the long run.
Its like the house odds in a casino. Anyone can win money in the short run, but in the long run the odds are in the casinos favor and they will make more money than they lose over time.
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Post by Splattercat on Nov 9, 2006 10:59:48 GMT -5
TM beat me to it...
Everyone with both cards...Go do a best of 7 between Dr. Death and Monolith...Post the results here...I guarantee Tom was overreacting...
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Post by JED-SE on Nov 9, 2006 11:06:13 GMT -5
Crazy upsets can happen, its the luck of the roll. The Murdok loss to Anaxis was with the conversion chart in place. I'm sure Monolith could lose to Koko B Ware in one match. But if you did a series of matches, Monolith would come out on top in the long run. Its like the house odds in a casino. Anyone can win money in the short run, but in the long run the odds are in the casinos favor and they will make more money than they lose over time. Couldn't have said it better TM. By the way, Monolith never lost to Steve Williams. Monolith lost to The Butcher. He just happened to use Steve Williams to beat him(and Spike too I think). ;D |
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