Sherdoggies?

[DUCE]

;)Far be it from me to drag the meat from other website and pollute this board with as much current info as I can bur I'd like to discuss the current state of the American MMA media. These guys are being BLACK BALLED by UFC. Fightsport 24-7 deserves such treatment because they hate the UFC chain of command. Sherdog has been twiddling their collective thumbs and well giving other brands more attention which is good for the sport. But when will UFC get out of control? Will it eventually hurt really helpfull sites like sherdog in the long run?

[habbalah]

duce said:

;)Far be it from me to drag the meat from other website and pollute this board with as much current info as I can bur I'd like to discuss the current state of the American MMA media. These guys are being BLACK BALLED by UFC. Fightsport 24-7 deserves such treatment because they hate the UFC chain of command. Sherdog has been twiddling their collective thumbs and well giving other brands more attention which is good for the sport. But when will UFC get out of control? Will it eventually hurt really helpfull sites like sherdog in the long run?

Sherdog (despite the fact I enjoy using the sight) deserves nothing but Dana white's scorn and contempt. The sight generally leans and favors Pride (which doesn't even bug me at me all that much, everyone is aloud to have a preference) but it's just simply smart business to distance themselves from a place like that. If I had a mma company who's exhistance relied on Sherdog I'd slit my throat now and die with dignity.

[Darth Turkish]

Sherdog is also it's own worst enemy. They used to have fighters come and talk to people on the forum boards. As the sport become more popular, more and more morons/ dumbasses came on. These armchair toughguys started really demeaning and unbased threads, proving they are fair weather fans and not true fans of the sport. Thus the fighters do not come as much. A little more sterm administrating would solve much. Perhaps our guys here could start a class?!?!? ;D

That being said, I do not agree with the media ban. This sport is in its fledgling years yet, and needs ALL of the support it can get. Sure the UFC is on an upswing and gaining in popularity. But one serious injury or scandal would crush that. The UFC is already the household name for MMA for the most part (similar to the way the non wrestling fan always refers to "WWF moves" or whatnot). They should do what they can to help other promotions and the sport in general. They want a monoploy on the game, but it is not going to happen and ulitmately ends up hurting the product (WWE anyone)?

[Mad Dog]

Extensive studies were done and it was found that only 1 out of 100 Sherdog posters are actually human. The rest are various species of trolls.

I have nothing but support for this. I wish every company would cut off the message boards completely. The complete lack of respect and the sheer hate that does on at those boards is disgusting.

[habbalah]

turkish said:

Sherdog is also it's own worst enemy. They used to have fighters come and talk to people on the forum boards. As the sport become more popular, more and more morons/ dumbasses came on. These armchair toughguys started really demeaning and unbased threads, proving they are fair weather fans and not true fans of the sport. Thus the fighters do not come as much. A little more sterm administrating would solve much. Perhaps our guys here could start a class?!?!? ;D

That being said, I do not agree with the media ban. This sport is in its fledgling years yet, and needs ALL of the support it can get. Sure the UFC is on an upswing and gaining in popularity. But one serious injury or scandal would crush that. The UFC is already the household name for MMA for the most part (similar to the way the non wrestling fan always refers to "WWF moves" or whatnot). They should do what they can to help other promotions and the sport in general. They want a monoploy on the game, but it is not going to happen and ulitmately ends up hurting the product (WWE anyone)?

Now lets not get carried away with MMA elitism. This reminds me to closely to of prowrestling Smarks, if you don't remember them God bless. as long as Dana white 1 doesn't have a daughter and 2 she isn't dating Chuck liddel it's all gravy.
The only real problem with prowrestling the Mcman family's dating habits, not cutting of the net. Sherdog fans are more or less the second coming of the internet smark know it all be all holier than though fan, reborn to come to find a second life in mma.

Need proof? If you've been to Sherdog tell me if this sounds familiar. "F##king WHITE BELT!"
I was actuality unjustly paranoid about thinking that about only having one star here, but no ones said a word sense I got the new account, on that note hell I'll be happy to stick with one star from now on if that's the case.

It's easy to poke fun at Sherdogs Mod's but if the numbers where swapped and these boards were as flooded and Sherdog member ship were about a few dozen, it may well have been the other way around. Never under estimate the stupidity of people in large numbers.

There are plenty of good things about Sherdog, you'll find a loyal fan base for many quality fighters like GSP and rightfully so. You can find an exhaustive analysis by fans on any current event... that's also the down side. But I blame that on the mass of people more than stupidity.

[Darth Turkish]

I agree that Sherdog does have it's good people, and Habbalah you yourself seem to be one of them. Sherdog is a GREAT news site- it is the Forums that are flawed.
My WWE comments were mainly based on the WcW competition and the generally good programming to come from that, and a comparison of that and today's WWE, which is pretty terrible. The WWE monopoly of prowrestling has ultimately hurt it's product and business. I believe Zuffa wants the same thing for it's company, but Pride is too strong and popular, and barring any severe disaster, is not going anywhere.

[habbalah]

turkish said:

I agree that Sherdog does have it's good people, and Habbalah you yourself seem to be one of them. Sherdog is a GREAT news site- it is the Forums that are flawed.
My WWE comments were mainly based on the WcW competition and the generally good programming to come from that, and a comparison of that and today's WWE, which is pretty terrible. The WWE monopoly of prowrestling has ultimately hurt it's product and business. I believe Zuffa wants the same thing for it's company, but Pride is too strong and popular, and barring any severe disaster, is not going anywhere.

Well honestly the comparisson isn't on it's mark and I'll tell you why. WW(F) back in the day use to go balls hard to out of there way to act like there was no WcW. That and WCW also wanted to put the WWF out of business.
On the ufc Joe Rogan mentions Pride (at least in a round about way) quite a bit. Hell he mentioned the yellow card idea at the last ppv (and at a good time to).
If Pride died I don't honestly beleive it would hurt the ufc in the long run all that much. I'd miss it (it's not going any where so it's not like we have to worry about it). I know the ufc has taken steps to try and lure over some fighters from Pride with Pride's consent time to time and it just never happened. You can't tell me vince mc man would dreamed of doing that.with wcw.

It's a shame for what ever reason (money or what ever) that Pride fighters never managed to show case there talent on a UFC stage, I'm not going to blame anyone for this. Namely because that horse has been beaten to death of all places Sherdog. The pro ufc fans say it's because Pride's filled with cowards, and the pro Pride fans call Dana White a cheap butt broke pregnant dog. Either conclusion doesn't help make the end result any closer to coming true. Pretty soon Wanderlai's contract expires, and I know this has happened before, but right now.... there's hope. Small and unlikely as it is we have hope (I'd rather have Arona for some odd reason i just think he'd fit in better). To be honest with you if Wanderlai came over and fought anyone, MIke Van A., VItor Belfort, Hell I wouldn't care, I'd be happy as hell just to see him on the card. He might not start out as a star, but he'd win over fans with his ability. UFc fans love stand up wars, and Wanderlai excels at those.

On that note of Zuffa lately they put up more money to get back the right talent. So at least in the short term things are working out pretty damn good.

[pikemojo]

So since I am a fairly new fan to MMA could you answer a question for me. Are the fighters in Pride and UFC on exclusive contracts or are they free to fight anywhere as long as it doesn't interfere with their already signed contract. I would love to see Wanderlei vs. Liddell. Mainly because Liddell said that he wanted Wanderlei on one of the UFC events.
Is this possible?

[habbalah]

pikemojo said:

So since I am a fairly new fan to MMA could you answer a question for me. Are the fighters in Pride and UFC on exclusive contracts or are they free to fight anywhere as long as it doesn't interfere with their already signed contract. I would love to see Wanderlei vs. Liddell. Mainly because Liddell said that he wanted Wanderlei on one of the UFC events.
Is this possible?

An old but good question. Now I'm not entirely sure of the exclusive nature of Pride's contracts but the ufc frowns a great deal on it's fighters fighting abroad in most cases. I know Penn B.J. got canned for this sort of thing, but on the other hand Chuck Liddel (with Dana white's consent) actually fought over in Pride.
It's a matter of who you know (just with everything else in your life) in what you can do.

[habbalah]

Oh I posted this at S Dog and I wanted to see if anyone wanted to give there feed back.

I feel this happens way to much at Sherdog one week a fighter is the flavor of the month and the minute there's a sign of weakness everyone turns on him.

I can't wait to see who here turns bitch on GSP if he can't beat BJ Penn.

How fast Arona is dropped like a bad habit when He loses.

That's right I talk all kinds of crap about Wanderlai (I respect him and enjoy his matches) and I'm even rootting against him, but I know the truth. If he shows up at the top of his game Arona's boned. I'm not some bios Wanderlai fan and nothing would make me happier to say wanderlai's screwed.. but the truth is it'll be a new years miracle if Arona wins.

And that goes double for Mark Hunt. I'm dying to see him knock out Crop Cop.... but well... I know better. Cro Cop's track record speaks for itself.

Now this is the part where it gets tricky for UFC fans. Babalu and Mike Van A. Just because Mike lost to Randy no one thinks Mike has a hope in hell here.

Why? He took Randy Couture to his limits... if Mike would wrestled Tito to the piont where Tito was winded no one would said anything about Tito's age.

Yes I realize Babalu seems like he'll roll over Mike... but I won't be suprised if it takes him 3 rounds. The irony of the next UFC ppv is that Babalu has more potentail to make Randy look worse than Chuck.

Randy had to go all out to beat MIke... if Babalu makes it look like childsplay Randy's image suffers.

Now here's the flip side. What if Babalu fails? I mean it could happen. The next big thing for the ufc light heavy weight division goes to the back of the line. It could be the same future waiting for GSP (except I think GSP will fair better in that BJ doesn't intend to stay at W.W., He'll just have to wait longer for his shot if he fails.)

As for my remarks on Arona and Wanderlai seem cruel, keep in mind, If Wanderlai doens't show up prepared I think he's screwed. But that's just it, I don’t' see Wanderlai (love or hate him) will make the same mistake twice.

Who far back will Mark hunt's lose set him back in the fans eyes. I remember when Nick Diaz lost to DIego S. and I barely hear Diaz's name come up anymore. That's partly Nick Diaz's fault and all... but he deserved better than to be forgotten about. (Even if he is a bit of an ass).

My basic question is.. will everyone stop talking about Babalu if he fails to MIke V. A. and just basically say "Well he's not top Level talent" he he loses to Mike. or will Mike actually get credit for beating Babalu.

I don't think a single Sherdog fan is even willing to entertain the idea of cheering for Mike V. A no matter who he beats.,.. and right now he has what may well be the fight of his carear.

[pikemojo]

I don't know who GSP is much less know enough about the careers of some of those guys to really comment. What the heck I will give it a shot anyways.
I haven't forgotten about Diaz, not by a long shot. I have enjoyed all of his matches that I have seen, win or lose.
I haven't been impressed with the few Babalu matches that I have seen while Mike VA has impressed me quite a bit.
Cro Cop is a machine. It is hard for me to imagine anyone having an easy time with him much less beating him.
The rest is too far out of my league to comment about.

[Darth Turkish]

As I have said, Habs, you are one of the voices of reason on Sherdog.

Fair weather fans are abundant on Sherdog, and one of my biggest pet peeves about their forums. I absolutely hate, HATE HATE the "So-and-So sucks!" threads because the writers have absolutely no clue. 99% of those guys have never fought a MMA match, 80% have never trained in a martial art long enough to truly being to know anything, and 65% of them have never been in a real fight beyond Street Fighter or Tekken. I despise the lack of respect given to fighters. In my opinion, a fighter just sucks out loud when they cannot beat me, were that person and I to fight. If I can fight and defeat any of these professionals who dedicate their lives and have strict training regimes with my 1and 1/2 years of Wing Chun/ chin na, six months of BJJ, and yellow belt in Judo, then and only then does one of those guys suck! (rant done- sorry!)

You bring up some good points and obviously have looked into your questions with care. Georges St. Pierre (GSP) or BJ Penn probably will be cast off by many should they lose. Fighters are never given room to have a bad fight or rebound from a loss by the casual fan. Once they lose, in most people's eyes, they are done. Most people will groan to see Sean Sherk fight again, after being dominated by GSP. He got his ass handed to him for sure, but that does not mean the result will be the same the next time they fight.

One important note is that one loss does not mean the end of a career (and I know I am preaching to the choir). How many people cast off Matt Hughes after his loss to BJ Penn? Hughes was dominated and looked silly in that fight. Was he cast aside? Sure, but now that he is winning again, he has large fanbase again. And he is a smarter and better fighter now. CroCop's loss to Fedor does not diminish the fact that CroCop is a very talented and impressive fighter, one who will be around for a long time. It is not the loss, but what is done following the loss that is important for the longevity of the fighter's name.

Most people do not understand that a fight is a given moment in time and in that moment, anything can and does happen. A left hook that Couture absorbed may knock Babalu down and out. Babalu may fall wrong on the same takedown take Randy easily controlled. Even all if all of the factors favor one guy, the other guy cannot be discounted (look at Koshchek's last fight- that was a gimme match, but his opponent took advantage of a mistake, and look what happened). Look at the GWF as a game and this can be pretty clear: How many times have you had Thantos set up to fight Vanity or Reptillo and ended up having Thantos lose? Or where it is Endgame and Disaster and the match is over in one or two moves? Ahh the randomness of it all is what makes it great!

[LWPD]

Mike Van Arsdale was a world class wrestler with sufficient submission skills to be effective the very moment he started fighting. I first saw him on a video from the old Brazilian IVC Vale Tudo series where he was instantly dominant winning a 3 match tourney. These were the old school rules, where it was pure knuckle to face, with no eye gouging or fish hooking and everything else goes.

He popped up in the UFC in 1998 and won with a very slick keylock submission. I thought he could be a real force but for some reason he disappeared from the MMA scene entirely for 4 years.

He came back and had been winning at a pace of one fight a year. Now he seems to be much more active as this will be his fourth fight in roughly a years time. At age 40 I don't know how far he can go, but I wouldn't underestimate him. The Couture fight showed he can still compete at an elite level.


Like Watching Paint Dry (who wouldn't mind seeing a Van Arsdale/Silva rematch in Pride)

[habbalah]

]Actaully Turk everyone's responce to my thread over at Sherdog was respectful www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?t=316318

(Yeah I didn't beleive it either).
I get the fealing alot people there are dying for stronger mods there.

One of the best arguments i got on the matter was alot of mma fans treat your fights like a movie carrear. When you put out a bomb people will remember that.

That kinda made more sence (cruel, but it made more sence). I think making the argument about Matt Lossing is a alot different. Matt was unbeatable at the time and well to the uninformed (people like my dumb a$$) had no idea what happened to Penn later.

I got alot of honest responces in the fact a fan wasn't thrilled to see Babalu face MIke Van A. because Babalu might actaully lose.
I feel the same way about Randy facing Babalu before getting his title back. I don't want my favorite fighter any were near that guy (LOL). At least until he gets his belt back. Dana might do something stupid. (Joe Rogan's pep speach during that fight about Dana sending Randy back down in the bush leagues didn't make me feel to happy about what laid ahead if Randy lost).
There are plenty of good arguments to be made one why Sobral got screwed, and Randy got the nodd. I doubt Randy would had a problem facing anyone to get a rematch with Chuck but hay things happen where at times they just work out smoother for you. Look at Evan Tanner and David the Crow L.
Now I'm worried about where Tanner's ranking is in the middle weight scene. It's not that I beleive in him any less (his last fight kicked ass) because he lost, I'm just worried about the ufc letting him go.
I'm glad to hear Dana was pleased with Diez performance in the Diego fight, if that only he'll still have a job later on.

[pikemojo]

Ahhhh, GSP is Georges St. Pierre. I love the guy. Really have enjoyed every fight I have seen him in.

[Darth Turkish]

pikemojo said:

Ahhhh, GSP is Georges St. Pierre. I love the guy. Really have enjoyed every fight I have seen him in.

Yeah he is pretty good.

[DUCE]

habbalah said:

Oh I posted this at S Dog and I wanted to see if anyone wanted to give there feed back.

I feel this happens way to much at Sherdog one week a fighter is the flavor of the month and the minute there's a sign of weakness everyone turns on him.

I can't wait to see who here turns pregnant dog on GSP if he can't beat BJ Penn.

How fast Arona is dropped like a bad habit when He loses.

That's right I talk all kinds of crap about Wanderlai (I respect him and enjoy his matches) and I'm even rootting against him, but I know the truth. If he shows up at the top of his game Arona's boned. I'm not some bios Wanderlai fan and nothing would make me happier to say wanderlai's screwed.. but the truth is it'll be a new years miracle if Arona wins.

And that goes double for Mark Hunt. I'm dying to see him knock out Crop Cop.... but well... I know better. Cro Cop's track record speaks for itself.

Now this is the part where it gets tricky for UFC fans. Babalu and Mike Van A. Just because Mike lost to Randy no one thinks Mike has a hope in hell here.

Why? He took Randy Couture to his limits... if Mike would wrestled Tito to the piont where Tito was winded no one would said anything about Tito's age.

Yes I realize Babalu seems like he'll roll over Mike... but I won't be suprised if it takes him 3 rounds. The irony of the next UFC ppv is that Babalu has more potentail to make Randy look worse than Chuck.

Randy had to go all out to beat MIke... if Babalu makes it look like childsplay Randy's image suffers.

Now here's the flip side. What if Babalu fails? I mean it could happen. The next big thing for the ufc light heavy weight division goes to the back of the line. It could be the same future waiting for GSP (except I think GSP will fair better in that BJ doesn't intend to stay at W.W., He'll just have to wait longer for his shot if he fails.)

As for my remarks on Arona and Wanderlai seem cruel, keep in mind, If Wanderlai doens't show up prepared I think he's screwed. But that's just it, I don’t' see Wanderlai (love or hate him) will make the same mistake twice.

Who far back will Mark hunt's lose set him back in the fans eyes. I remember when Nick Diaz lost to DIego S. and I barely hear Diaz's name come up anymore. That's partly Nick Diaz's fault and all... but he deserved better than to be forgotten about. (Even if he is a bit of an ass).

My basic question is.. will everyone stop talking about Babalu if he fails to MIke V. A. and just basically say "Well he's not top Level talent" he he loses to Mike. or will Mike actually get credit for beating Babalu.

I don't think a single Sherdog fan is even willing to entertain the idea of cheering for Mike V. A no matter who he beats.,.. and right now he has what may well be the fight of his carear.

GSP is the man. For his performance against Hughes and domination of the Canadian scene. Nothing will change that but... ten years? Retirement?

[habbalah]

You forgot injury. But yeah he is the future.