I truly believe . . . (Take note, Gamemaster)

[ringsyde]

You are a videogame ace (I gather as much from your usually spot-on posts about Nintendo games), so I'm interested in your take.

Play it, explore it and tear it apart, then post.

[Chris Ingersoll]

Just finished my match after Backlash (winning every match so far by submission -- even when I chose "rest hold" as the mode; obviously the cage match v. HHH was an exception) and created two characters, so here are my initial impressions:

First of all, the reason I created two characters was to test one of my biggest problems from DoR: the fact that the Bra & Panties matches were only playable using the FOUR women they provided and not with any female CAWs (you can assign them "inner wear" on their upper bodies, but not on their lower bodies), making the match type almost a completely useless waste of code. Sadly, this was still the case, as Angel still would not lower herself to "compete" in one of these T&A fests (not that the character would anyway, but it was a test). It almost makes me wonder why they even bother including the women as playable characters.

My second character, Vyolynce, I needed to make twice because I screwed up on assigning points and once you leave that screen those points are set in stone until you adjust them in Story Mode with experience. The fact that there is NO warning about this either on the screen or in the manual was especially frustrating. That being said, I very much like the "arsenal" system of what moves are available to you, as it forces some balance to creation and eliminates the need to purchase specials in the ShopZone.

As far as the rest of the CAW goes, I've never been a fan of being able to mold each individual polygon of my character, but it's something I've come to accept. The "Rey to Big Show" height scale was cute, although I'd prefer actual numbers. The 44 choices for the introduction announcement are some of the lamest and dumbest things I've ever seen; the odds of any of these being appropriate to an original character are laughable, and not choosing one makes the intros lame (I've tried both; Vyo is introduced as "The Ghost" while Angel has no intro). The fact that none of the pre-set palette colors are an actual black (especially for hair) was mind-boggling, since 75% of the WWE roster sports black outfits at one time or another; this is easily fixed with the Edit colors, but still strange. I also found my patience expiring at the fact that the game would constantly need to re-load the entire character every time I made a change.

Speaking of load times, this brings me to the Story Mode portion of my impressions. There is still no excuse for the interminable load times that we have to endure between every scene change, and they don't even give us useful tips to read while I'm waiting this time. Other than that, I don't really have much of a problem with the presentation, although I'd like to turn off the announcer if I could. I definitely see where having voice work could make this mode a lot more enjoyable, but the logistics of having so many people refer to your character by "name" may be prohibitive (not sure how SD vs. Raw handled this). The graphics are indeed as awesome as advertised, although there's still some hideous clipping issues and the usual odd animations that take me out of it.

As far as the actual Story goes, It's nice to not have to "fight my way up the ladder" again, and they made up for the fact that I seem to have the attribute totals of Orlando Jordan -- despite being a former World Champion who took down HHH* in an Ironman Match at WMXX -- by making the initial matches disturbingly easy.

...

At least I HOPE that it's just for these initial matches. If things are still this easy by that SummerSlam Cage Match you guys are talking about, then I might get annoyed by it.

Anyway, my major problem right now is that the plot of the story is easily the second-dumbest I've ever seen in a wrestling game (NOTHING will ever top "Revenge Mode" from XIX for that dubious honor); the world title stolen the night of Wrestlemania? So the PPV went on without a main event? WHAT?!

The gameplay is just as solid as last year, with the addition of the stamina meters and submisson options both being awesome. When I beat HHH in the cage match at Backlash I had him legally dead in the middle of the ring, with no stamina and nearly unconscious from my one impactful finisher (I use the Edge-O-Matic, but Vyo's OBLIVION is actually a double knee lift to the back of the head; close enough), but I didn't have the stamina to get out. So I slapped on two rest holds to fill myseulf up, leveled him with a clothesline to the back of the head, and then easily slipped out (where are the doors in these games anyway?) while he was left in the middle of the ring with no breath and a concussion. Good times. I also liked being able to give commands to my tag partner -- and having those tag commands explained in the tutorial earned an "about time" fro me, since last year I barely knew how to tag out.

Unfortunately... outside of those gameplay additions, this is still just DoR with a different roster. The gameplay is solid, but the storyline so far has (almost) been worse than what's been on TV lately. I won't pass official judgement on it until I complete it, but right now I'm looking at 6.5/10 (maybe 7, tops) if it continues along the same lines as last year's with the AI becoming increasingly cheap with the counters and reversals.

EGM may have been a bit harsh with their scores, but they weren't off that much in thier comments. I don't see this holding my attention for replayability and "screwing around time" like No Mercy did. It's looking like the best WWE game on the Cube yet, but that isn't saying much when I've played -- and enjoyed -- better on more primitive systems, and expecially considering how bad the first two (X8 and XIX) were.


* Hey, didn't DoR have an equivalent storyline for Smackdown, too? Wouldn't that make the transition from last year's story to this year's odd for anyone who opted for that show?

[canadianpittbull]

Continuity has never been the WWE's strong point in any form. ;D

[Chris Ingersoll]

Holy crap. If I ever -- EEEEEEEEVER -- get my hands on the guy who thought a 4-way Cage Match with a 30-FREAKIN'-minute time limit was a good idea, there will be MUCH screaming. I will break his bones, re-set them incorrectly, and then break them again. He will truly know pain and torment long before I am finished with him; by the time I am finished with him, he shall know them intimitely.

I've only attempted this once and I can already tell that I'm going to be here all week. Bunch of no-selling AI nonsense...

[canadianpittbull]

Oh I know I have tried to get through that nonsense over 15 times now and can never get out of the cage. The developers of this game must not be wrestling fans because this match is retarded! I will join you Chris in powerbombing the match making dorkchop into a dumpster so they can take the trash out.

The rest of the game from a multiplayer stand point is great. Story mode can rot in hell!

[Chris Ingersoll]

I'm fearing that I may need to take RingsYde's path (no offense meant) and dilute the purity of my character just to get some more impactful moves. The Edge-O-Matic just isn't likely to keep them down long enough...

Of course, if I could USE THE DOOR maybe I wouldn't have this problem.

[canadianpittbull]

Regardless what many think I still enjoy Showdown Legends of Wrestling and on the PS2 (atleast my copy) it wasn't that glitchy. One thing I can give that game is that atleast you could go out the door in the cage match!

[ringsyde]

Showdown was cool, but let's be realistic; it had many issues. I still liked it, and I'm thinking about picking it up again ($12.00 at Meijer!!).

[the_faction]

admin said:

Holy crap. If I ever -- EEEEEEEEVER -- get my hands on the guy who thought a 4-way Cage Match with a 30-FREAKIN'-minute time limit was a good idea, there will be MUCH screaming. I will break his bones, re-set them incorrectly, and then break them again. He will truly know pain and torment long before I am finished with him; by the time I am finished with him, he shall know them intimitely.

I've only attempted this once and I can already tell that I'm going to be here all week. Bunch of no-selling AI nonsense...

HAHAHA I'm going to have to pass this along to him.

[the_faction]

ringsyde said:

Showdown was cool, but let's be realistic; it had many issues. I still liked it, and I'm thinking about picking it up again ($12.00 at Meijer!!).

How can you say that? The game had insufferable reversals that made no sense and just had no fun factor. The only thing it had going for it was that it had quite possibly the greatest roster in video games and that's it.

[ringsyde]

Sometimes, faction, a game can be fun despite a LOT of flaws. Clearly, Showdown was full of bugs and other issues, but for $12.00, it's worth getting again.

If it helps, it's on the lower half of my list of bad wrestling videogames. Acclaim's ECW games, WWF Attitude and WCW Nitro will forever (let's hope) populate the absolute bottom slots.

[the_faction]

ringsyde said:

Sometimes, faction, a game can be fun despite a LOT of flaws. Clearly, Showdown was full of bugs and other issues, but for $12.00, it's worth getting again.

If it helps, it's on the lower half of my list of bad wrestling videogames. Acclaim's ECW games, WWF Attitude and WCW Nitro will forever (let's hope) populate the absolute bottom slots.

Allright I'll agree with you on that philosophy. It's just interesting to see where that cut off line is for people when a game reaches a certain price point as to what is acceptable.

[Chris Ingersoll]

Wonder of wonders, I managed to clear the SummerSlam cage match (with about 3:00 to spare...) on my first try today (and only other try since my little rant). I have no idea what magical combination of buttons let me do it, but I'm not about to complain.

One more thing: if they're going to give us cage matches without doors, at least force people to actually pull others off the cage. Being able to knock them down simply by running into the ropes is cheap and incredibly unrealisic. I don't mind the quick-climb/slow-crawl-and-mash, since it's the only way to add some challenge, but c'mon.

Anyway, tearing up Smackdown. Just crushed Eddy in a Submission Match (Vyo's specialty). There wasn't a part on his little damage indicator that wasn't deep red by the time I finally decided to put him out of his misery (by countering the Three Amigos into an armbar). I could literally have finished him whenever I felt like it.

On that note, I REALLY miss the bone-cracking sound and agonized scream that accompanied tap-outs on the AKI games. }

[Vidtek]

admin said:

On that note, I REALLY miss the bone-cracking sound and agonized scream that accompanied tap-outs on the AKI games. }

OK, I have not yet played DOR2 but I must agree with you there Chirs. The best part of those matches was the nice breaking sound, the painfull "Aaagh" and the tapping sound. I loved that part, and would often go for submision finishes even with non-submision wrestlers (Goldberg and Nash for example).

[Chris Ingersoll]

Finished the Story mode this morning. Final verdict: Last year's model with prettier graphics, keen little stamina/submission system, and the same stupid irritations (why do I lose my carefully-constructed entrance just because I have a title?!) -- 6.5/10

In all likelihood, I'll never turn it on again. In the end, the good and fun just weren't enough to outweigh the bad, stupid, and frustrating.

I would normally conclude with "maybe next year", but I know better.

[Chris Ingersoll]

For those interested, I've posted my "official" review of DoR2 on the site where I write (for free, sadly). It contains much of what I said in this thread (and in the other ones), but we don't actually give out scores.