Submission Match?

[Scott Fire]

I looking for a submission match chart that would allow for someone who does not have a submission move to still compete in such a contest. Is there one available?

Thanks.

[LWPD]

scottilious said:

I looking for a submission match chart that would allow for someone who does not have a submission move to still compete in such a contest. Is there one available?

Thanks.

The best variation of this type of match that I've seen over the years was done by LOW mastermind Chad Olson. He did an excellent representation of the old UWFi style...which had a very heavy emphasize on transitional mat work leading into submission attempts and finishes. While knock outs also played a heavy role in the format...for game play purposes you could easily eliminate the KO factor entirely with a bit of ingenuity.

Take note that parts are open ended. That's a positive because it gives you a lot of room to work with creatively. If you need a resource to help flesh out submission possibilities...just visit my Mixed Martial Arts Streaming Links page for content fill. Specifically the Submission Technique Library (which is in streaming form). You can also pull transition and positional content from the various grappling arts that are represented. For a definitive written guide to pro wres submissions the old Rev. Ray link is still gold.

If you like the chart and need any recommendations on high end UWFi viewings from the 'Good' Pro Wres archives just let me know. Seeing the style in action may help to give a greater feel and connection to the ideas behind the chart.

I hope this helps a bit.

Credit Chad Olson

Shootfight Match

Description: The rules of this match are similar to those used
in Pancrase, UWFI or UFC. This match emphasizes mat work and
submission but can include chokes and eye gouges here and there.

Rules:

1. Match can only be won via submission or knock out

2. Use Shootfight Chart instead of Ropes & Turnbuckle charts

3. Roll again in the event of Death Jump or Out of the Ring.
If rolled twice you must roll down to the next lower level of
offense

4. Only realistic moves can be used in this match. Examples of
banned moves include:

Flying body press
Piledrivers
Foreign objects
Hair Pulling
etc.

Use your best judgment when deciding which moves to use. If you
roll any two of these types of moves in a row, roll down on the
next level or some moves may be modified to fix the match context.
For example a body slam would be delivered while holding onto the
opponent with an attempt to drive him through the mat. Or an
elbow or knee drop might be a series of elbow or knee smashes
to a downed opponents body.

5. No (lv) option is allowed

6. No managers, valets, etc at ringside. No outside interference
of any type.

7. Ignore (Ch) options, use the stated move.

8. Use PIN rating for submission. KO's and submissions are
acceptable when a "realistic" finisher is delivered and the
opponent is KO'd or "Pinned" in the same manner.

Shootfight Match

This match takes place in an "Octagon" UFC type ring or a regular
wrestling ring. Use the outside PIN number for a submission
(Example 6(3) use the 6). When rolling submission or KO use
PIN rating. Use when you have rolled any of the chart situations.
You refers to the wrestler on offense.

Rating A 2 Rating B 2 Rating C N/A

The opponent unleashes a kick at you, but you grab the leg and
deliver a vicious leg whip takedown. You place the foe in a lower
body submission of your choice. Opponent rolls submission

Rating A 3-4 Rating B 3-4 Rating C 2-3

The opponent backs you into a corner, but you slip behind him
and deliver a German suplex. Roll on Level 3 Offense

Rating A 5 Rating B 5 Rating C 4

You and the opponent trade some thunderous punches in the middle
of the ring. You are both stunned, blood is starting to trickle
over the sweat that is already pouring. Once again you continue
this melee but both of you are stunned. To see who wins this
free for all roll one die:

Odd: You recover and roll on Level 2 Offense

Even: Opponent recovers and rolls on Level 2 Offense

Rating A 6 Rating B 6 Rating C 5

The opponent shoots in at your legs but you sprawl and lock
in a choke hold. Opponent rolls on Level 3 Defense

Rating A 7-8 Rating B 7 Rating C 6-7

The opponent comes out of the corner and tries to spear you.
Roll one die to see what happens:

Even: You block the opponents attempt, bulldog him to the mat
and repeatedly bash his skull into the canvas. You roll on
Level 3 Offense

Odd: The opponent gores you into the mat hard and begins fisting
your head like a piece of meat. Opponent rolls on Level 3 Offense

Rating A 9 Rating B 8-9 Rating C 8

You are tired and can't catch a second wind. Opponent rolls on
Level 3 Offense

Rating A 10 Rating B 10 Rating C 9

It's up to you! The opponent executes a deadly maneuver then
throws you down to the mat for more punishment. Opponent rolls
on Level 3 Offense

Rating A 11 Rating B 11 Rating C 10

The opponent comes at you with a leg sweep and then begins to
batter your body with quick elbows to your head and then some
devastating knee drives to your face. Add 1 to your submission
rating. Opponent rolls on Level 3 Offense

Rating A 12 Rating B 12 Rating C 11-12

It's up to you promoter! Imagine something truly devastating,
a punishing move to the opponent that could possibly end the
match. Add 1 to both of your submission ratings and roll for
knockout! If no KO continue on Level 3 Offense

[Scott Fire]

The problem I have with the chart is it takes away the pro wrestling element. I want the into the ropes, into the tb, deathjump, etc. I don't want it MMA style, more like Austin/Hart from Mania 13.

Thanks anyways.

[LWPD]

scottilious said:

The problem I have with the chart is it takes away the pro wrestling element. I want the into the ropes, into the tb, deathjump, etc. I don't want it MMA style, more like Austin/Hart from Mania 13.

Thanks anyways.

That's cool. The chart and style isn't for everyone. If you want a simple CotG Submission Chart/Format that is more contemporary pro wres/WWE Main Event style orientated (ie. Austin/Hart) then you may find this one more useful:

1. Create a Submission Finish Chart. This can be as basic or elaborate as you want (from dice roll modalities of 1-6 to 2-18, etc)

2. Insert a 'Roll Submission Finish Chart' rule for:

i. any defensive pin roll

ii. as a follow up (or preferably substitution) to any Offensive Finisher roll (your call). If a wrestler has a potent submission finisher you may want to limit it's use to being a 'Silver Bullet' that's allowed only once per match (in order to make the chart concept relevant)

3. Any failed submission attempt sees the offensive wrestler re-roll on Level 3

4. All 'regularly stated' non-finisher submission moves also carry a (0) with a 'sub check' by the ref

5. Play all other match aspects normally

Sample Submission Finish Chart

* Roll four dice

* All submissions carry a (0) rating and can only be used once...re-roll if necessary

* In this instance perform a single roll to see how many dice to use for the chart...this staggers the probabilities

Roll of 1-3 - use 2 dice
Roll of 4-5 - use 3 dice
Roll of 6 - use 4 dice

2. Indian Death Lock
3. Dragon Sleeper
4. Gator Roll into Anaconda Choke
5. Crooked Figure Four
6. Breaks Special
7. Inverted Surfboard
8. Cattle Mutilation (ag)
9. Head and Arm Choke
10. Straitjacket Choke
11. Octopus Stretch
12. Crossface Chickenwing
13. Spinning Full Nelson (pw)
14. Rolling Kneebar (ag)
15. Texas Cloverleaf
16. Scorpion Deathlock
17. Asiatic Spike
18. Step-over Toehold Crossface
19. Kimura Lock
20. Triangle Choke
21. Cobra Clutch
22. Ankle Lock
23. Lion Tamer
24. Elevated Surfboard

* This would allow you to guarantee that the match 'ends in a submission' while creating a sense of variety. It also gives a wrestler with more stated subs an advantage (constantly putting the other wrestler in jeopardy of losing the match). I'd prefer more sub content than less...but YMMV. You could always alter the potency of the moves, add/subtract submission roll elements, etc., whatever fits your needs.

[Scott Fire]

Awesome. This more to my liking.

Thanks a lot LWPD!

[Big Bri]

I have a submission chart that still allows for the regular moves on a wrestler's card to be used as well. PM me your e-mail and I'll send it to you.

EDIT: Oops, I don't have the chart anymore. You might want to try looking for it on one of the Yahoo groups for COTG, or maybe it's on this board somewhere.

[LWPD]

scottilious said:

Awesome. This more to my liking.

Thanks a lot LWPD!

No problem.

[Big Bri]

I just came up with this last night...

SUBMISSION MATCH

The goal of this contest is to force your opponent to submit.

• This match is for singles matches only.

• To win the match, a wrestler must roll either at or under his current PIN Rating TWICE IN A ROW.

• Before the match, make some sort of indication of which of the wrestlers’ moves are submission moves. The best way to do this is to mark an “s” next to the move name.

• ANY submission maneuver is a viable match winner. Whenever a submission maneuver is rolled, the opponent should roll his PIN.

• For submission finishers, add the Finisher Rating to PIN Ratings before doing any PIN rolls.

• For non-submission finishers, Add 1 to the defensive wrestler’s PIN Rating and the offensive wrestler rolls on Level 3 Offense.

• PIN Ratings cannot go higher than 12 during the match. If a wrestler’s PIN Rating goes above 12, he has passed out and the opponent automatically wins.

This match favors submission-type wrestlers, but then again, in my fed, a wrestler would probably have to have a decent amount of submission moves on his card for me to even put him in this match.

[Scott Fire]

bigbri said:

I just came up with this last night...

SUBMISSION MATCH

The goal of this contest is to force your opponent to submit.

• This match is for singles matches only.

• To win the match, a wrestler must roll either at or under his current PIN Rating TWICE IN A ROW.

• Before the match, make some sort of indication of which of the wrestlers’ moves are submission moves. The best way to do this is to mark an “s” next to the move name.

• ANY submission maneuver is a viable match winner. Whenever a submission maneuver is rolled, the opponent should roll his PIN.

• For submission finishers, add the Finisher Rating to PIN Ratings before doing any PIN rolls.

• For non-submission finishers, Add 1 to the defensive wrestler’s PIN Rating and the offensive wrestler rolls on Level 3 Offense.

• PIN Ratings cannot go higher than 12 during the match. If a wrestler’s PIN Rating goes above 12, he has passed out and the opponent automatically wins.

This match favors submission-type wrestlers, but then again, in my fed, a wrestler would probably have to have a decent amount of submission moves on his card for me to even put him in this match.

Wow, that's awesome. I will use that one. Thanks man.

[LWPD]

Nice contribution Big Bri. I like the double roll rule and the pass out fatigue rule.

bigbri said:

• For non-submission finishers, Add 1 to the defensive wrestler’s PIN Rating and the offensive wrestler rolls on Level 3 Offense.

What is the move content you are using here to invoke the add 1? For example if I roll a non submission finisher such as Paint Dry Screwdriver (+3)...am I substituting a move or just ignoring it and automatically adding 1 without further consequence?

[Big Bri]

lwpd said:

Nice contribution Big Bri. I like the double roll rule and the pass out fatigue rule.

bigbri said:

• For non-submission finishers, Add 1 to the defensive wrestler’s PIN Rating and the offensive wrestler rolls on Level 3 Offense.

What is the move content you are using here to invoke the add 1? For example if I roll a non submission finisher such as Paint Dry Screwdriver (+3)...am I substituting a move or just ignoring it and automatically adding 1 without further consequence?

Good question Paint. The actual non-submission finisher is still performed in the match, but the defensive wrestler simply adds 1 to his PIN Rating. Then, the offensive wrestler just keeps punishing the defensive wrestler. I guess you could say that any non-submission finisher is used as a wear-down hold.

One alternative could be that after any non-submission finisher is hit that the defensive wrestler should roll on the chart that you listed (the one with the different submission holds on it), and that any submission finisher is treated normally (with the finisher rating applied to all PIN rolls).