|
|
Post by Splattercat on May 29, 2006 1:41:42 GMT -5
Fine. Somenody show me one of these flippy guiys who have wreslted iunto their 30s and 40s. <pauses and wonders where all those uncharacteristic typos came from> Jushin Thunder Liger (41) comes to mind, but that's about it offhand...if you're going 30-40, RVD is 35 and Christopher Daniels is 34...And I know I'm really pushing it here, but......Rey Mysterio is 31.... But my real answer is Liger... ;D |
|
|
|
Post by gatekeeper on May 29, 2006 11:13:16 GMT -5
splattercat,
Taking all of Joe's points and then drawing a direct comparison to something WWE did that was very similar................only strengthens Joe's point.
His point was that TNA is just like the WWE - sports entertainment. Thatnks for reinforcing the point.
|
|
|
|
Post by PureHatred on May 29, 2006 14:03:02 GMT -5
Fine. Somenody show me one of these flippy guiys who have wreslted iunto their 30s and 40s. <pauses and wonders where all those uncharacteristic typos came from> Jushin Thunder Liger (41) comes to mind, but that's about it offhand...if you're going 30-40, RVD is 35 and Christopher Daniels is 34...And I know I'm really pushing it here, but......Rey Mysterio is 31.... But my real answer is Liger... ;D Yeah..crazy..I was on the phone as I was typing. Liger is an *OK* example, although he radically changed his style and became more ground/submission based aftersome injury problems. He'll break out the occasional spot move, but he's nowhere near the guy we saw face Brian Pillman in the WCW. |
|
|
|
Post by Splattercat on May 29, 2006 14:24:49 GMT -5
splattercat, Taking all of Joe's points and then drawing a direct comparison to something WWE did that was very similar................only strengthens Joe's point. His point was that TNA is just like the WWE - sports entertainment. Thatnks for reinforcing the point. Wow...You're right...Well aside from the obviously facetious manner that he presented his point...let's be honest, some were simply jabs at TNA (what does a 6 sided ring have to do with Sports Entertainment..?)...  I guess I agree... ;D |
|
|
|
Post by Joe on May 30, 2006 12:36:31 GMT -5
splattercat, Taking all of Joe's points and then drawing a direct comparison to something WWE did that was very similar................only strengthens Joe's point. His point was that TNA is just like the WWE - sports entertainment. Thatnks for reinforcing the point. Wow...You're right...Well aside from the obviously facetious manner that he presented his point...let's be honest, some were simply jabs at TNA (what does a 6 sided ring have to do with Sports Entertainment..?)... I guess I agree... ;D I wasn't taking any jabs at TNA that weren't warranted. The six-sided ring was referenced because, as I said in my "facetious" introduction, anybody who considers TNA a throwback to the Carnie days rather than a form of the sports entertainment business professional wrestling has become is fooling themselves. It's very much sports entertainment, just not done as well as WWE does it. |
|
|
|
Post by Splattercat on May 30, 2006 13:55:24 GMT -5
The six sided ring was mentioned because you don't like it...It has nothing to do with your point...
Personally I don't think Pittbull was going back to the 20s with his comments...Maybe the 70s when Wreslting was much simpler...Heel vs. Face decided in the ring, as opposed to Heel vs. Face by way of Face's dead father/pregnant wife/Helpless daughter/dead girlfriend/aging mother etc...
it is my belief that the wrestling on TNA is better by far, if only because 80% of the matches aren't punches...The announcers are allowed to know what they're talking about, and the wrestlers perform beyond their signature moves...Whether better wrestling makes a sports entertainment show a better wrestling show I suppose isn't for me to say...
|
|
|
|
Post by thefamoustommyz on May 30, 2006 14:19:14 GMT -5
Um...
I'm confused...the territory days weren't a "style"...because each territory had a style tailored to their fans.
Cornette has talked about how Watts would take comedy angles in Memphis and use them in Mississippi as MAJOR heel heat angles like, say, tarring and feathering (Brickhouse Brown was the victim in Watts' territory, I think)...and the only real difference in the angle was the audience.
I assure you all, TNA isn't "sports entertainment" because that's a buzzword that Vince created and, I'm sure, has a copyright on, so if TNA dared utter it, they would be sued into oblivion.
That said...Abyss trying to drown Christian in his pool isn't markedly different than The Four Horsemen stalking Dusty Rhodes outside the arena and breaking his arm with a baseball bat. Kevin Sullivan stranded Superstar Billy Graham in the desert, if I recall the angle correctly, but Graham emerged "reborn".
Outlandish angles being used to build matches isn't a "sports entertainment" thing...angles for the sake of ratings and angles is a different story.
I've said before and I'll say again, anything that's used to build to a match is forgiveable...doesn't mean it's ENTERTAINING, but it is forgiveable. Mae Young giving birth to a hand was pointless and stupid. Big Boss Man dragging Big Show's father's casket down the street was stupid, but not pointless.
BG and Kip James mocking the Dudley's was passe', but used entirely to build to their rematch.
And half of this whole thing is people arguing over personal preferences. To me, a six-sided ring being used for a four man spotfest is MUCH more entertaining than a four-sided ring used for a bikini contest. That's my opinion. The six sided ring jarred me at first, but now I don't even notice it.
The ultimate X match is no stupider than the ladder match...and requires a lot more athleticism...unless the X or the title falls without anyone reaching it, then it just requires being in the right place at the right time to catch it...but then, everybody has technical difficulties...=P
|
|
|
|
Post by Joe on May 30, 2006 18:14:25 GMT -5
Apparently, you're missing the point I made. The only thing I criticized in my post was how stupid THIS PARTICULAR segment with the James Gang was and how wack I think Scott Steiner's promos have become.
Splattercat brought up the D-X crotch chop, which I didn't criticize at all. The days of D-X bring up good memories, not just the wrestling kind but where I was at the time. What I clowned was Billy Gunn's "Whammo." That was stupid.
I didn't say the Ultimate X match or the six-sided ring was "stupid." I don't like the ring, but I do think the Ultimate X match is pretty cool.
All I ever was pointing out was that TNA is much closer to what Vince has labeled "sports entertainment" than a "pure" form of wrestling that someone implied it as earlier.
|
|
|
|
Post by thefamoustommyz on May 30, 2006 23:27:45 GMT -5
And my point is that some of the things you focused on aren't nearly as exclusive to Vince's brand of sports entertainment as he'd like everyone to think. A lot of this stuff has been around a long time.
|
|
|
|
Post by Splattercat on May 31, 2006 1:04:54 GMT -5
Splattercat brought up the D-X crotch chop, which I didn't criticize at all. The days of D-X bring up good memories, not just the wrestling kind but where I was at the time. What I clowned was Billy Gunn's "Whammo." That was stupid. Oh, sorry, that's not what I meant...I meant that DX had done that "Dress up as and make fun of the opposition" thing like, 4 times before and everyone said it was the coolest thing ever...Times change, I know, but as far as dressing up as and making fun of Team 3D, I thought they did a really nice job..  As for the D-X chop, in my opinion, they should have left that out, "whammo" or no...I'm sure it was probably 2 parts spontaniety, 1 part habit on Kip's part, but doing DX things on TNA is kinda out of place... On a slight sidenote, one thing I'm kinda interested in is whether JR and King will bring up the New Age Outlaws when DX reforms....Mike Tenay already talked about DX in the WWE when Kip and BG started interacting with one another on TNA... |
|
|
|
Post by JED-SE on May 31, 2006 7:07:43 GMT -5
Splattercat brought up the D-X crotch chop, which I didn't criticize at all. The days of D-X bring up good memories, not just the wrestling kind but where I was at the time. What I clowned was Billy Gunn's "Whammo." That was stupid. Oh, sorry, that's not what I meant...I meant that DX had done that "Dress up as and make fun of the opposition" thing like, 4 times before and everyone said it was the coolest thing ever...Times change, I know, but as far as dressing up as and making fun of Team 3D, I thought they did a really nice job.. As for the D-X chop, in my opinion, they should have left that out, "whammo" or no...I'm sure it was probably 2 parts spontaniety, 1 part habit on Kip's part, but doing DX things on TNA is kinda out of place... On a slight sidenote, one thing I'm kinda interested in is whether JR and King will bring up the New Age Outlaws when DX reforms....Mike Tenay already talked about DX in the WWE when Kip and BG started interacting with one another on TNA... Actually, JR and King already have. A couple of weeks back on Monday Night Raw, when Foley and Funk were trashing each other, JR cut to an old tag-team match between Foley and Funk defeating the New Age Outlaw's for the WWE Tag-team championship. |
|
|
|
Post by bmurderh8s on May 31, 2006 8:04:33 GMT -5
How could anyone not enjoy that James Gang promo where they were mocking the Dudley's? That was good stuff. it reminded me of that DX promo when they were making fun of the Corperation. Classic.
TNA offers far more wrestling then the WWE. almost every match in the WWE consists of punch, kick, whip into the ropes, punch, kick, finisher. That stuff is straight boring. At least the TNA wrestlers are allowed to use actual wrestling moves.And spot fest don't hurt either. Which makes for far more interesting and entertaining matches.
Vince nearly killed wrestling 5 years ago and I hope with the rebirth of ECW and TNA that wrestling can finally become worth watching again.
And as far as the old days of territories go. It wouldn't be a totally bad idea. There are alot of younger fans, like myself who don't remember what it was like. I wouldn't mind seeing it.
And keep Bishoff far away from the TNA. From what I know about him he's not a very good booker. TNA needs to dstance itself from the WCW style product, and bringing in uncle Eric would be a step in the wrong direction.
|
|
|
|
Post by mwjergs on Jun 4, 2006 11:32:16 GMT -5
I agree with Brownie's comments. Outlandish angles have been around for a long while and I always got a little confused when so many people would credit Vinny Mac with the "sports entertainment" style. If it pushes the story and serves a purpose it is forgiveable but not necessarily entertaining.
I didn't care for the James gang promo because I just don't like them. I just found it funny that these guys were making fun of the Dudleys when they could have been describing themselves.
Billy Gunn is mocking how all D-Von can say is "Testify". Well, "Whammo" to you too sir. I guess he said it because he can't use those two words anymore. Road Dogg making fun of Bubba's weight? This coming from a guy who hasn't wrestled without a shirt for ten years.
WWE has shifted the focus from wrestling to the angles and tv production. Even though they have plenty of guys who can wrestle. The Angle-Rey match is a great example. A fantastic start to the Smackdown show. After the match it was clear how far the overall show fell off. If Angle is what the "new" ECW is about, I'll be watching.
I am only for the territories because it would allow young guys to actually learn their craft. In ring psychology, promos, etc. The guys that can jump right to the bigs and perform are few and far between.
|
|
