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Post by tafkaga on Mar 20, 2006 13:39:54 GMT -5
You know, this is not a dig at anyone, but adding real wrestling forums to this site was just begging for this kind of debating. The forums were added because I knew that the discussions would take place, whether or not the forums were there. We wanted to keep the "real" stuff away from the CotG stuff. The argument could be made that the creation of any forum is an invitation to this kind of debating. I've never seen an internet forum where everyone got along and showed proper respect to everyone's views, regardless of the topic(s). You think wrestling fans are bad? You obviously don't play Magic: the Gathering. There's so much flaming that goes on at any MTG board (including the official WotC ones) that it's a wonder the cards don't physically catch fire. I've said it before and I'll say it again: a few largely personal and generally isolated issues aside, this is overall one of the most well-behaved group on the net I have ever had the privelge to be part of, nevermind mod for. You're right, the discussions would have and did take place without them. But I've been around for about 5 years now, and unless I'm just remembering wrong I don't remember anywhere near the same level of debating before real wrestling forums were created. Sure, a skirmish here and there, but not the every day "TNA sucks", "No WWE sucks" stuff. If it did happen I didn't see it, and wasn't part of it. |
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Post by thefamoustommyz on Mar 20, 2006 14:51:12 GMT -5
Well, there was that OLD SCHOOL character who typed in all caps and told us we were all badwrong for not following storylines to the "t" and for using bootlegs.
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Post by thefamoustommyz on Mar 20, 2006 14:52:57 GMT -5
I can actually name two boards, and I am a semi-regular contributor to both boards... The Rancor's Pit, a board dedicated to the old West End Games, Star Wars D6 RPG and Against the Shadows, dedicated to the new d20 game Midnight. I have yet to see a flamewar break out in the second one in its 3 year history, and the only one I know of on the first one was when someone came on trying to convert everyone to Star Wars d20 (which is about as trolling as trolling gets, IMHO). Of Topic here but: Tommy, I frequent the Rancor's Pit from time to time and see what is talked about. I am a fellow WEG D6 Star Wars player myself and I'm sorry but Star Wars D20 just does not work. D6 or nothing-Old School here brother! Still off-topic, but I totally agree. D20 is fine for some things...heck, d20 Star Wars actually even does Jedi pretty well...but for Star Wars overall? Yuck. |
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Post by tafkaga on Mar 20, 2006 14:57:54 GMT -5
Well, there was that OLD SCHOOL character who typed in all caps and told us we were all badwrong for not following storylines to the "t" and for using bootlegs. I 'vaguely' remember that guy... he was a hoot. |
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Post by floydthebarber on Mar 20, 2006 15:11:42 GMT -5
Very fair comments regarding my 'question' about HHH/Cena.
Joe...your probably right, HHH and Cena is a match-up of arguably the two most polarizing individuals in pro wrestling. That helps them...but this feud just came out of nowhere and I really don't care who wins.
I have begun to straddle the fence when it comes to Cena. There is a lot to dislike about him...but one thing he is is genuine. He does like the fans, and seems to actually 'care' about the WWE and the biz...so thats a good thing. The fact that he is a sub par wrestler hurts him.
HHH is a very good to great wrestler...but his character is very stale, and frankly the ONLY reason he's in the Main Event is his rank at Titan Towers. Edge would have made a much more interesting opponnent for Cena...and it would have added more 'fire' to the match. The fact that Hunter got handed this Title shot because he's hunter doesn't sit well with me.
Two best mike men in wrestling...hardly...but that's just my opinion.
As for Swarm's comments...
Is HHH the best heel in the biz? Maybe...but that should say a lot about the state of the biz right now. I'd argue that Orton is catching up. As for the **** matches he puts on regularly...I think youre a little biased...but its hard to argue any of his PPV matches being under ***
If you think 'can HHH get a **** match out of Cena' is a reason to watch...good for you. I don't watch wrestling for that.
I could care less how the fans react at the match. And I bet you could really care less too...your just thinking out loud.
Finally, will Cena turn on the fans if he loses? Maybe...but a heel turn after all this 'face time' he's had just doesn't make sense. If your going to have HHH win the belt, now you've got a good opportunity to put Cena back into the role he's best at...challenger. Why turn him heel?
Will it be a 'good match'? I think so. But in the grand scheme of things, this match, along with most of the wrestlemania card just doesn't appeal to me at all. Maybe Benoit/JBL will steal the show...=)
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Post by thefamoustommyz on Mar 20, 2006 15:33:54 GMT -5
Gotta disagree about the feud coming out of nowhere.
The feud came about because Cena is the champ, HHH wants to be the champ, and HHH won the #1 contender's spot...so now he's doing everything he can to get in Cena's head and break down his body before WM.
That said, I bought WM last year on the merit of HHH-Batista alone...this entire card put together doesn't encourage me to pay up.
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Post by pikemojo on Mar 20, 2006 16:27:59 GMT -5
One last thing, and again I am really not in the mood for fighting. But WWE brings back Hogan all the time. Many would say we got a few dream matches out of him in the last few years. Rock vs. Hogan, HBK vs. Hogan. Animal was not pushed near the top spot in WWE because he never was near the top. He was the top of the tag division and that is exactly where WWE put him. Plus, because TNA is an upstart promotion is all the more reason to bring in a few stars to help get people to recognize their promotion. I would love to see Danielson in TNA as well and I am sure he will end up there eventually but would that bring more viewers or more attention to TNA on the internet. Maybe a few but no where near as much as Sting or Steiner. Also Sting and Steiner are not even feuding over the belt which means that guys like Monty Brown are still getting title shots and now Abyss is demanding one. Samoa Joe is now moving up the card as well. TNA is doing a pretty good job (now) at having established stars and up and comers on the same show. As for Wrestlemania, I wont buy it on ppv but I guarantee you I will buy the DVD like I have for the past 3 years. I think the Angle/Orton/Mysterio match could be a great match and Cena/HHH could definitely get the crowd going. The money in the bank match has alot of potential as well. You can't say I am some TNA mark who bashes WWE when I openly admit to enjoying the product alot of the time. I just also happen to enjoy TNA and will defend it. Need proof. cotg.proboards12.com/index.cgi?board=LOW&action=display&thread=1139928499&page=1 Simply find my statements on HHH in this thread and you will realize that I am defensive of what I like on WWE as well. |
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Post by Joe on Mar 20, 2006 17:53:45 GMT -5
Again, the difference is that Vince is not trying to build a promotion by bringing in washed-up has-beens from yesteryear. Besides if you are going to bring in past-their-prime old-timers, no one compares to Hogan. Love him or hate him, Hulk Hogan can actually make a significant difference in the amount of viewers that tune in and the money that gets shelled out. It is debatable about whether Sting can, and while Steiner was on top of WCW, the company was in its darkest hour.
There is no comparison between a Scott Steiner-Steve Borden feud and Hogan-Michaels or Hogan-Rock. First off, Michaels can carry anyone and Rock and Hogan have so much in the way of in-ring showmanship there was no way the WM match was going to flop. Secondly, the Rock-Hogan feud was a part of Wrestlemania and they were actually developing the rest of the federation along with that feud. All it took was the opening 15-minute Steiner monologue on Impact Saturday to see that Steiner-Sting is going to be the focal point of TNA for a while, or at least until Steiner breaks down physically.
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Post by tafkaga on Mar 20, 2006 18:15:39 GMT -5
I agree, you can't compare Hogan/Rock with Sting/Steiner. But it has nothing to do with how old they are, how washed up they are, or how broken down they are. It has to do with drawing power.
I despise Steiner, and every time he spoke in WCW was pretty much a concession stand/bathroom break moment for me. That doesn't mean that "Big Poppa Pump" is not a big name and that his presence in TNA won't attract some mainstream attention. Sting is an even bigger star than Steiner, and there are a lot of people who will tune in to watch him simply because he's sting.
In that respect, it's really no different than Hogan or Flair in WWE. It's going to work the same way, but on a smaller scale. TNA is trying to sign big names to give WWE and former WCW fans a reason to check out the show. AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, and Monty Brown have no drawing power among fans who are not already into TNA or the indy scene. On the other hand, Sting and Scott Steiner do. So in that regard I can understand and even agree with their reasoning for bringing them in.
What I don't agree with is putting them in the main event immediately. It looks like TNA is starting to build around talent made in WWE/WCW, and that's exactly the same mistake WCW always made...by building around talent made in WWE. I say yes to bringing in established mainstream recognizeable talent. I say no to building TNA around them.
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Post by nelson on Mar 20, 2006 18:19:45 GMT -5
i agree with that.its stupid how they put the older guys into main event matches jmo.
neil
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Post by floydthebarber on Mar 21, 2006 0:27:32 GMT -5
Can't really argue with you Tommy...I know HHH won the #1 contender tourney, and he and Cena have been working the program for a few weeks now, but before the tourney, these two had almost zero history together...making it a lot harder to make it a compelling fight at Mania. That said, I'm sure its drawing enough interest...just not mine really.
I'm watching the RAW replay as I write this, and I do like the direction they are taking Vince, Shane and HHH...'one big happy family'...as much as I tire of seeing Vince in the spotlight, if this leads to some 'corporation' stable with Vince and HHH at the top I'd be all for it.
As this is no longer about TNA, I'll stop here...
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Post by pikemojo on Mar 21, 2006 0:46:04 GMT -5
As I already said though, TNA is continuing to develop other wrestlers while having big namers go at it. Christian is champ, Samoa Joe is movin up, Monty Brown just had his title shot, Abyss is demanding his.
You are right, Steiner is not on the same level as Hogan and Sting vs. Steiner is not on the same level as Hogan vs. Rock but TNA isn't on the same level as WWE.
What does that matter though, you wont like TNA no matter what. Exactly what you are accusing some of with the WWE. You ask why TNA brought Sting and Steiner in and it is explained. You ask why some are excited about it and it is explained.
When I got home from school tonight I turned on Raw and watched the last hour or so of that. I then turned to UFC then watched TNA. Tonight I will probably watch ROH and PWG. I must be a TNA mark not willing to give anyone else a chance.
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Post by tafkaga on Mar 21, 2006 1:35:43 GMT -5
As I already said though, TNA is continuing to develop other wrestlers while having big namers go at it. Christian is champ, Samoa Joe is movin up, Monty Brown just had his title shot, Abyss is demanding his. You are right, Steiner is not on the same level as Hogan and Sting vs. Steiner is not on the same level as Hogan vs. Rock but TNA isn't on the same level as WWE. What does that matter though, you wont like TNA no matter what. Exactly what you are accusing some of with the WWE. You ask why TNA brought Sting and Steiner in and it is explained. You ask why some are excited about it and it is explained. When I got home from school tonight I turned on Raw and watched the last hour or so of that. I then turned to UFC then watched TNA. Tonight I will probably watch ROH and PWG. I must be a TNA mark not willing to give anyone else a chance. Ignore the "TNA mark" crap... there would be nothing wrong with it even if you were. Anyone who insists that everyone who watches TNA is a mark is most likely a mark for the competition, or else they wouldn't even be saying that. You're right, TNA is not on the same level as WWE which is another reason you can't compare the talent they bring in with the talent WWE brings in. TNA is a different ball game. They don't have the bargaining position to entice anyone they want to come be a part of their company, and they don't have the resources to pay for a lot of the legends that WWE can afford. |
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Post by chrismystery on Mar 21, 2006 9:12:01 GMT -5
I would like to know when Vince McMahon became the only person capable of deciding if someone is washed up. Team 3D goes to TNA and they are instantly no longer a great tag team? Yet, Hogan and Flair who are light years beyond their time (I still enjoy watching both) are good because they were able to work out a deal. The fans know who they want to see wrestling. If people are chanting to watch Sting versus Norman Smiley then that is what they should get.
My problem is that the WWE seems to be telling me what I should enjoy and then goes through with their "plan" regardless. While, TNA listens to what the fans think and then works with it.
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Post by swarm on Mar 21, 2006 9:53:08 GMT -5
While, TNA listens to what the fans think and then works with it. Jeff Jarrett... |
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Post by gwffantrav on Mar 21, 2006 10:52:59 GMT -5
While, TNA listens to what the fans think and then works with it. Jeff Jarrett... Well, Swarm has got you there... |
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Post by canadianpittbull on Mar 21, 2006 10:55:49 GMT -5
Hey now Jeff Jarrett = ratings!  |
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Post by swarm on Mar 21, 2006 11:19:52 GMT -5
Hey now Jeff Jarrett = ratings! yeah low ratings... |
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Post by chrismystery on Mar 21, 2006 11:42:23 GMT -5
Jeff Jarrett is not the ultimate trump card. I will say everything about JJ that has ever been said about HHH. Great wrestler, dedicated, yadda, yadda. I like him. I thought he was great in WWE with the cowboy hat and the shiny JJ on it. I liked him in WCW when he was the champ. He is one of the better wrestlers in TNA. TNA listened to us and he no longer has the belt. He isn't even a contender. This isn't WCW. Swarm, I am not shocked to here a McMahonite not like him. We already know what you are going to say before you type it, so why bother.
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Post by swarm on Mar 21, 2006 12:31:10 GMT -5
Jeff Jarrett is not the ultimate trump card. I will say everything about JJ that has ever been said about HHH. Great wrestler, dedicated, yadda, yadda. I like him. I thought he was great in WWE with the cowboy hat and the shiny JJ on it. I liked him in WCW when he was the champ. He is one of the better wrestlers in TNA. TNA listened to us and he no longer has the belt. He isn't even a contender. This isn't WCW. Swarm, I am not shocked to here a McMahonite not like him. We already know what you are going to say before you type it, so why bother. 1) Comparing HHH to JJ is like comapring a bowl of ice-cream to a bowl of soggy cereal... 2) What the hell is a "McMahonite", and did you make that up yourself? 3) Did you know I was going to write this? swarm |
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