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Post by Kreaton on Dec 17, 2004 11:25:39 GMT -5
What does everyone think of John Cena's new US Belt?
I personally don't care much for it. When I first saw the design, I hated the circular plates and such, but when he spun it, I thought that made it a little more interesting.
I really like the design of the official one, so I'm kinda partial to that one I think.
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Post by Big Bri on Dec 17, 2004 15:48:41 GMT -5
Although I haven't seen Cena's new belt, I hate the official belt. IMO, the best U.S. Title belt design was the one Luger, Wyndham, and a few others wore in the late 80's NWA.
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Post by Joe on Dec 18, 2004 15:45:02 GMT -5
I think Cena's belt is cool as hell. I absolutely rolled when he spun the center piece.
Speaking as someone who grew up with hip hop culture (the first rap two rap tapes I bought were Newcleus' "Jam on It" and Whodini's "Escape"), I think Cena has a legitimate love for the music and the culture, unlike others who have tried similar gimmicks.
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Post by soug on Dec 18, 2004 18:02:30 GMT -5
that belt is the stupidest thing ive ever seen!it bad enough cena acts like a clown,now they are giving him props!
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Post by Rap Artist on Dec 19, 2004 9:10:31 GMT -5
You best beleive they be givin him props, yo! Cena is da bomb! That belt is off the chain! Everybody give props to the man Cena! Holla!
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Post by Big Bri on Dec 19, 2004 12:47:16 GMT -5
(the first rap two rap tapes I bought were Newcleus' "Jam on It" and Whodini's "Escape") Awesome albums Joe! |
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Post by TheOtherTravis on Dec 19, 2004 12:53:46 GMT -5
I haven't seen the new belt, but based on what Joe said, I'm guessing it's a spinner. So, really, what they did was put Cena's personality in the design of the belt, the same as they did with the Smoking Skull WWF/E belt for Stone Cold, and the Brahma Bull WWF/E belt for The Rock. I might have to watch Smackdown this week just to see the belt.  ~Travis |
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Post by Joe on Dec 19, 2004 17:32:54 GMT -5
I'm glad there's somebody on here that knew who Newcleus and Whodini are. I made a reference to Jay-Z in a post about Euritar once and got the feeling no one knew what the hell I was talking about! |
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Post by Joe on Dec 19, 2004 17:34:10 GMT -5
that belt is the stupidest thing ive ever seen!it bad enough cena acts like a clown,now they are giving him props! Just out of curiosity, what does John Cena do that qualifies as acting like a clown? |
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Post by Chris Ingersoll on Dec 20, 2004 18:30:36 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, what does John Cena do that qualifies as acting like a clown? You mean other than the "Pump" elbow and the 5-knuckle shuffle? Aside form those, nothing in particular. |
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Adam Smasher to lazy to log on
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Post by Adam Smasher to lazy to log on on Dec 20, 2004 21:58:15 GMT -5
You mean other than the "Pump" elbow and the 5-knuckle shuffle? Aside form those, nothing in particular. OK, and did you just LOVE the People's Elbow or the Worm? Cause those are just as bad.... |
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Post by Joe on Dec 20, 2004 22:29:57 GMT -5
You mean other than the "Pump" elbow and the 5-knuckle shuffle? Aside form those, nothing in particular. If you're going to refer to those moves then there are many other "clowns" who are held in pretty high regard. Let's see: Dusty Rhodes, The Rock, Buh-Buh Ray Dudley, and Ric Flair come to mind. I highly doubt Cena's elbow was what he was referring to when he made the statement. |
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Like Watching Paint Dry
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Post by Like Watching Paint Dry on Dec 21, 2004 8:26:04 GMT -5
John Cena...clown or star? The term 'clown' is a little strong, I'd substitute the term over theatrical. The extended chin lock sequences and tendency to no sell don't do much for me either. When I watch a JC match, I'm not getting the same level of presentation as I get from a Chris Benoit or an Eddy Guerrero. What I see is mid to late 1980's WWF comedy style matches. It's like watching the Bushwackers or Hacksaw Duggan match from that era, with trademark moves stringed together with little build or substance. It lacks the deeper more polished presentation of pro wrestling I prefer. While I wouldn't label him a clown, the 'gimmick come to life' style just isn't my speed.
To be fair, the elements his performance does focus on seem to connect with the WWE target audience. His comedy 'rap' promos seems to always get a good reaction. His sports entertainment spots seem to be over with the crowd. He mixes good facial expressions and body language with the stage presence of a star. In the end that's often much more important in terms of drawing money than match quality will ever be. The vast majority of fans could care less about the intricacies of 'good' in ring work, they just want to have fun and be entertained.
Sweeping aside opinions all that really counts is the numbers. His DVD sold respectably for a first release, blowing away Eddy Guererros numbers...but nowhere near the level of Chris Benoit and Ric Flair. It's worth noting for a first issue release Brock's 'Here Comes the Pain' did better a year earlier. His other merch has been a successful seller...from Word Life T-shirts to even that necklace 'lock' thing he wears. In that area he's making bank.
In terms of television Smackdown ratings were declining throughout his heavy push this year and only went up _AFTER_ his 2 month hiatus (although Tough Enough gets the credit there). His QH's have historically been good but not spectacular. He's yet to be tested as 'the' main feature of a PPV program, as the US belt has been his storyline prop on a second tier level. The jury's still out in that department.
He's yet to prove he can move tickets on the house show circuit, although only Eddy (in heavy Hispanic markets) and Undertaker (upon return from long breaks) can really make that claim on the Smackdown side.
Cena's still young and no doubt has much room for improvement. He'll be getting the big push next year with both the movie vehicle and CD release. He has proven he has some appeal...yet how deep that appeal is will soon be put to the test with real numbers.
As for the US belt...I think it's a smart marketing move. A replica retails on Shopzone for just under $300. The 'spin' factor is sure to attract some new buyers who are used to the static plates. The 'spin' feature is simple yet unique and may even make for a lucrative collectors item down the road.
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Post by Joe on Dec 21, 2004 11:43:57 GMT -5
LWPD-
The more I have thought about SMACKDOWN and its television ratings, a couple of previously unmentioned factor ocurred to me. SD's ratings are largely dependent on its competition. There is a huge difference between earlier in the year and now with the ending of "Friends". Whether it would seem like a show such as that would affect SD's ratings or not, it was a mega-ratings getter. Other factors in determining SD's ratings could be UPN's lack of availability in some markets. It is also unavailable to Dish and DirecTV subscribers without an additional package add-on. It seems it would be very hard to determine Cena's individual bankability based on the factors I cited.
The fact that his DVD sold well is a definite sign of his popularity. The Flair and Benoit DVDs were heavy on wrestling and featured guys with extensive catalogs of top-notch matches. Brock Lesnar, although very young himself, had definitely had bigger matches to that point than Cena had, or has for that matter. I remember reading in a magazine that Shawn Michaels "From the Vault" was also a big seller. Apparenlty, wrestling DVDs heavy on quality matches are what sell the most, and Cena's DVD did not follow this trend. As a result, it should be noted that Cena' personality, charisma, and showmanship sold the product.
The house show reference is something that, while I realize it is one way wreslters get paid, is hard to lay at anyone's feet. Many people do not go to house shows because they feel the production will be inferior to what they see on TV. Like it or not, low house show attendance is part of the inevitable fallout from the state-of-the-art television productions that RAW and SMACKDOWN have become.
As for the line between being a clown and over theatrical. Cena is far from the clownish acts of the late 1980s WWF. Over theatrical? Maybe, but those are the ones people remember.
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Post by Swarm on Dec 21, 2004 12:33:50 GMT -5
Doink was a clown. Cena is great. I don't need every wrestler I like to be a Benoit, Eddie, RVD, or Jericho.
An example would be Paul London. Hate the guy. Could care less about him, his matches, or his move-set. He's BORING. I'll take Gene Snitsky over Paul London 7 days of the week.
For what Cena is (an amped-up version of himself) I find him very entertaining. His match with Jesus was top notch entertainment. WHY should he sell to that loser? Undertaker no selling 2 Eddie Frog splashes was much more offensive and deserved far more critisism.
Cena's finisher does suck the big one though. Probably the worst finisher on Smackdown. He needs a new finisher.
Oh, and the belt? Considering it's temporary, I think it's cool.
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Post by Chris Ingersoll on Dec 21, 2004 23:54:27 GMT -5
OK, and did you just LOVE the People's Elbow or the Worm? Cause those are just as bad.... No, I can't stand either of them. Any move that has such a rediculous set-up requiring that the opponent lie perfectly still (or otherwise be dazed) for longer than it would take to JUST PIN HIM ALREADY is just excessive and unecessary. |
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Like Watching Paint Dry
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Post by Like Watching Paint Dry on Dec 22, 2004 8:31:10 GMT -5
"The more I have thought about SMACKDOWN and its television ratings, a couple of previously unmentioned factor ocurred to me. SD's ratings are largely dependent on its competition. There is a huge difference between earlier in the year and now with the ending of "Friends". Whether it would seem like a show such as that would affect SD's ratings or not, it was a mega-ratings getter. Other factors in determining SD's ratings could be UPN's lack of availability in some markets. It is also unavailable to Dish and DirecTV subscribers without an additional package add-on. It seems it would be very hard to determine Cena's individual bankability based on the factors I cited." No doubt competition is a big factor. As is the drawing power of a shows lead in. I remember becoming hooked on Spike's 'The Joe Shmoe Show' simply due to it following Raw (which I always taped). The chances of me seeking out Joe Shmoe on my own were slim to none. I look for the same lead in effect in January when the UFC reality show gets pegged after Raw (which I hope will be good for MMA in general). There's always the danger that another show or activity 'steals' the audience. Trends actually show the wrestling demographic has been lost more to activities like the Internet and video games than to any particular television product. The fact that target viewers are pursuing other 'activities' as opposed to watching another channel is something that's really tough to combat. Changing the content may not be enough to attract the young people that drive the booms. No doubt as technology changes and entertainment choices expand, attracting an audience for something like pro wrestling because harder with each passing day. "The fact that his DVD sold well is a definite sign of his popularity. The Flair and Benoit DVDs were heavy on wrestling and featured guys with extensive catalogs of top-notch matches. Brock Lesnar, although very young himself, had definitely had bigger matches to that point than Cena had, or has for that matter. I remember reading in a magazine that Shawn Michaels "From the Vault" was also a big seller. Apparenlty, wrestling DVDs heavy on quality matches are what sell the most, and Cena's DVD did not follow this trend. As a result, it should be noted that Cena' personality, charisma, and showmanship sold the product." I know Michaels and Mysterio both sold well. The best sellers overall are typically the combined brand events (Wrestlemania, Survivor Series, etc.). The Cena DVD was pretty weak on content and it's a credit to him that it sold so well (it was in line with a heavily discounted Undertaker CHV re-release from 1995). The shocker for me was just how poorly Eddy's 'Stealing Life, Cheating Death' DVD did. The documentary was very well produced and the body of matches were strong. It was a real tough break that's not lost on future marketing considerations for him. "The house show reference is something that, while I realize it is one way wrestlers get paid, is hard to lay at anyone's feet. Many people do not go to house shows because they feel the production will be inferior to what they see on TV. Like it or not, low house show attendance is part of the inevitable fallout from the state-of-the-art television productions that RAW and SMACKDOWN have become." You make a good point. Yet when WWE was going through it's boom at the height they were running the two prime time television shows with monster ratings and still pulling massive gates at the houses, not to mention the PPV's. With time the availability of television didn't change, the appeal to the casual fan base did. Getting back the people who AREN'T hardcore fans but for a period of time thought it was cool and spent their money on the product and drove the boom is the key to filling the houses again. Inventing a format that is able to do that is far easier said than done. The problem for the wrestlers is that a large percentage of their income is derived from house show gates. While it's good for the fans that they have access to 'free' wrestling content, it has in effect made it less attractive to go to local house shows. The titles don't really change there, the angles that drive the content don't begin or end there and the content is really just an extension, not an end in itself. Years ago the big matches used to happen once a month for me at MSG, the Meadowlands and Nassau Coliseum. Today it's just an after thought that's lower on the pecking order than both the television and PPV shows. The incentive to go just isn't there except as a novelty, and today's 'novelty' fans have discovered other interests. This is why Vince can make money from the guaranteed ad revenue that for a contracted period of time is set in stone and wind up paying himself $20 million in dividends...while at the same time the wrestlers see their payoffs go down and their future downsides lowered. The changes in where the money primarily comes from has actually wound up hurting the wrestlers while creating more stability for WWE. The only place the houses still seem strong is overseas. I know they did monster business in Europe a few months ago (show for show it was better than even the boom period). More international tours will be good for the wrestlers and business as a whole. If you can't create domestically demand you have to follow it wherever it is. "As for the line between being a clown and over theatrical. Cena is far from the clownish acts of the late 1980s WWF. Over theatrical? Maybe, but those are the ones people remember." I like JC. Not just as a performer but as a person. He does a lot for charity and underprivileged kids that he really doesn't have to do other than out of kindness. He's a good guy with a bright future. I can take some aspects of his performance with a grain of salt...but if it works for him and makes him successful more power to him! |
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Post by Kreaton on Dec 22, 2004 9:30:55 GMT -5
Wow, I didn't mean to open up a can of worms here... I was just wondering what everyone thought of the belt.
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Post by Cena fan on Dec 23, 2004 15:19:38 GMT -5
Anybody know where I can see a picture online of this new belt? I've heard a lot about, but haven't been able to see it yet. Thanks!
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Post by TheOtherTravis on Dec 26, 2004 17:53:09 GMT -5
If you go to WWE.com, and go to the catalog, there is a picture of the John Cena pendant. From the picture of the replica belt that I saw, the center piece of the title belt is like the pendant. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
~Travis
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