Should Andre have the title at WM3?

[Nemecys]

I know history records Hogan as winning the match and defending his title, but do you agree? Or should we recognize Andre as being the real World Champion from Wrestlemania 3 until right before Wrestlemania 4 when he gave up the title, retiring it undefeated?

Your thoughts and views?

[Joe]

I'm confused at the question. Is it referring to the near-fall that took place shortly after the match started? If so, then no, Andre should not have been recognized as champion. The referee never raised his hand, therefore, Andre should not be recognized as champion.

[Nemecys]

No, I'm referring to the bearhug Andre had on Hogan around the halfway point of the match. The referee lifted Hogan's arm 3 times and it fell 3 times. The match should have ended it there. But instead, he raised it a 4th time. That's where I question the history of that match.

Watch it closely and see if you agree.

Jay

[David Bazzy Basnett]

I feel it depended on 1 question . Was wrestlemania 3 really about Hogan or Andre ? .
If Hogan then it was the right result (not forgeting the bodyslam he did on Andre) It really started Hulkamania and look for far that went .
If Andre been the baddest and biggest monster on the planet . Undestroyable and unstopable . If they wanted a monster heel then they had one . Only problem the defeat for Hogan would of damaged Hulkamania and made Hogan not immortal .
Personally I would of made Andre the Champ while he was not that bad (wrestling wise) .

[Nemecys]

I've always hated Hogan so I see it being about Andre. I agree and would have loved to see the match stopped in his favor after the bearhug. To this day, I recognize Andre as champ, not only because of the event, but because I hate Hogan (he's #2 on my most hated list).

Jay

[Chris Ingersoll]

Wow, where's the poll option for "geez, it was 17 years ago; let it go"?

[gamtime247]

Maybe Hennan should've thrown the red flag for the challenge.

[Joe]

Chris said:

Wow, where's the poll option for "geez, it was 17 years ago; let it go"?

That was the other thing that threw me off about the question. I never cared for Hogan either, but, damn, nearly two decades have passed and one of the participants is dead.

As for David's statement about the WM III match with Andre starting Hulkamania, that is as far off as a statement can be. Hogan had already been on the cover of Sports Illustrated by 1987. There were over 93,000 people in the Pontiac Silverdome, and that was because Hulkamania had already swept through the wrestling business.

[Like Watching Paint Dry]

Joe said:

"There were over 93,000 people in the Pontiac Silverdome, and that was because Hulkamania had already swept through the wrestling business."

It's good to see the power of kayfabe still lives on with regards to certain industry myths.

WWE itself admitted years ago that the 93k number for WM 3 was a work. It's not unusual for event promoters to work attendance numbers to give an illusion of grandeur (concerts & sports teams do it all the time) but it's funny how the 'new Indoor attendance record' from WM 3 myth still gets mentioned to this day.

Tax returns show Vince did 78k payed and papered quite a few. The official count was under 80k altogether...a great success but nowhere near the announced number. Truth be told it would be physically impossible to fit a crowd of that capacity under the scaling of the event as it was constructed that day.

I do give Vince major props however for doing the right thing from a business perspective. Working the number gave the event a mythological heir that lives on as an impressive 'fact' to many fans years after the event.

Now THAT'S the mark of an excellent promoter!

[Joe]

My apologies.

There were over 78,000 people in the Pontiac Silverdome, and that was because Hulkamania had swept through the wrestling business.

[JimSteel]

At Wrestlemania Andre did the right think and put Hogan over and passing the torch to Hogan

Andre would have made a great heel earlier in his career when he was healthy but by the time Wrestlemania 3 came around he could barely move

If Andre was younger and healthier I would have said Andre should have won but Andre was at the end of his career

TO Bad Hogan did want to put people over in his days in WCW because that killed the company

[Mike M]

I agree that Hogan was already a "name" and this event pushed him from elite to "legendary" status. 78k, 93k, or whatever the attendance was makes no difference.

As we often hear on wrestling telecasts, "the decision of the referee is final." Hogan's arm was raised in victory after the match, Andre's was not. That, I think, is the bottom line on who should be recognized as the winner of the match as well as the WWF(E) Champion.

[Big Bri]

Mike said:

"the decision of the referee is final." Hogan's arm was raised in victory after the match, Andre's was not. That, I think, is the bottom line on who should be recognized as the winner of the match as well as the WWF(E) Champion.

Aaah, spoken like a true Comissioner!, LOL

Hey Mike, I've haven't been able to play my Classics fed lately because of school, but we'll have to see what your character is up to pretty soon.

[Nemecys]

I'm wondering if anyone else actually saw the bearhug, arm fall (3 times). Well, if the decision is final, at least Andre pinned him a year later and retired as champ (giving up the belt to Debiase).

Jay

[Mike M]

Don't get me wrong. I was a huge Hogan mark at the time of the match (and still am to some degree). But I also was a huge Andre mark as well. I was glad that he was able to "redeem" himself by beating Hogan less than a year later.

Still, I don't know if "selling" the title to DiBiase and then having it stripped counts as retiring with the belt, especially since Andre went on to participate in the tournament to crown a new champion at WM IV.

[Mulkey Brother]

When Andre wrestled Hogan you were probably a mark for all your rubber WWF dolls too. But you didn't know you were a mark. You were just a kid who loved wrestling.

[Joe]

Guest-Mulkey said:

When Andre wrestled Hogan you were probably a mark for all your rubber WWF dolls too. But you didn't know you were a mark. You were just a kid who loved wrestling.

Thank you for putting that in perspective. The "mark" term has become ridiculously over used. When I hear people refer to being childhood "marks", it makes me wonder why I never hear women say things like, "When I was a little girl, I marked out for Barbie."

[Big Bri]

Where did the term "mark" originate anyway?

[Joe]

I know that many of the wrestling fans that have popularized the use of the word mark did not grow up in the same era/environment that I did, but back home when I was coming up, calling someone a mark was the same as calling him a punk. I don't know where the wrestling term originated from though.

[Like Watching Paint Dry]

The word 'mark' was a slang term that originates from the old carny days. It was used popularly as far back as the early 1900's as 'carney speak' for the people who would pay for various types of scams and spectacles at the carnival.

It was not used exclusively toward people who were spectators of 'worked' pro wrestling matches, but applied equally to targets of paying to watch the bearded lady or seeing the werewolf boy or magic tricks and victims of card game cons.

In essence a 'mark' is a person targeted to be easily taken advantage of for profit or personal gain. While this applies in the real world to many situations, it's commonly used by pro wrestling fans and those in the industry to refer to one another.

Ironically many of the true 'marks' following pro wrestling know it's just entertainment but still end up working themselves through entities like the Internet and 'backstage gossip' into spending money on false information. Even stranger, many of the biggest 'marks' are the wrestlers themselves...worked by unscrupulous promoters into performing for pennies on the dollar with no future payoff for the risks they are conned into taking.