My Ric Flair Rant

[Big Bri]

I think it all finally hit me a few days ago. I'm not sure exactly why, but it just did.

I have lost a lot of respect for Ric Flair over the past few months.

Flair was one of my favorites growing up, and is indeed one of the greatest competitors of all time. However, we all have commented on how Flair has turned into a joke. His little "stagger, wobble, & fall" bit was always part of his act, but the way he does it now is JUST for the cheap pop. Then there's the way he starts arguing with the referees, cussing up a storm, again, only to get a few laughs IMO.

I read a few posts on how these things were bothering some of us (fans), but I kinda shrugged it off. Hey, I do think the stuff is funny, and still like watching Flair, but it's just really sad to see a legend of his stature turn into a comedy showcase.

Then, I read the autobiography. After completeing it, I thought the title should have been...

"Da*n My Lips Are Chapped From Kissing Vince, Hunter, ans Shawn's A**es Ever Since WWE Was Nice Enough To Resurrect My Career."

I'd like to read it again, because I swear, at least every 5 pages he is kissing one of the aforementioned three's a**es. I'd really like to make an official count. I know, he's just "playing the game" as a lot of guys have to in the business, but da*n dude! You're friggin' RIC FLAIR! You shouldn't be kissing anyone's a**!

He claimed that he didn't want to cut that final promo on the last "Nitro" (A great promo indeed, and the only mention of WCW/NWA's great tradtion & history during that entire broadcast. It was the only form of closure us JCP fans had). My a** you didn't want to cut it!! You're just trying to kiss Vince's a** some more by appearing to hate WCW. Hey, I understand the company was completely shot to hell, but in the book Flair sounds like he looks back and contradicts everything he said in that promo (at least that's the impression I got from it.).

So, with the a** kissing and the comedy stuff, I just get depressed that "The Man" has allowed his legacy to shrivel to what we see today.

Sad...just really, really sad.

Thank You. I feel much better now.

[Joe]

I am still a Ric Flair fan. He is probably my all-time favorite wrestler, so perhaps that colors my judgment.

I don't view the things he says in the book as kissing anyone's ass. Shawn Michaels did revolutionize professional wrestling in North America from an athletic standpoint. Acknowledging that by declaring him to be a legend in the wrestling business is not kissing his ass, it is merely giving the man his proper due.

There was a period of about two years prior to Triple H's quad injury where he delivered an entertaining match every time he stepped in a wrestling ring. Even after his return from the injury, he still delivered the goods until he got stuck feuding with the likes of Scott Steiner and Bill Goldberg. Acknowledging his status as a top flight performer and one of the premiere wrestler of his generation is not kissing ass, it is simply stating a fact.

Blasting the hell out of a company that was barely a shell of the one he put on his shoulders and carried during the 1980s is not selling out. It is perfectly believable and understandable to see why Flair hated WCW wholeheartedly by the time the company went under. Everyone they had had in control for damn near a decade had done every thing in his power to make a fool of Flair and turn him into a disgrace. It seems that nothing makes Flair prouder than the knowledge that he is Ric Flair, and WCW tried to turn who he was into a washed up laughingstock.

His praise of Vince McMahon, while plentiful throughout his book, is probably sincere. He has always, that I can recall, spoke highly of McMahon, as do many people who work closely with him or know him intimately. In addition, if McMahon gave him a chance to redeem himself and rediscover the swagger and self-confidence that he had apparently lost during his final years, why wouldn't Flair sing his praises. It is human nature to like people, at least in some manner, that like you. Vince seems to be very fond of Flair, so why wouldn't Flair feel the same way. When Flair calls Vince a genius in the field of professional wrestling, he is not kissing ass. He is simply telling the truth.

[Swarm]

I agree w/ Joe. Ric Flair is the man.

[Nemecys]

I hated Flair in his prime, but I like him now since he's putting over the other wrestlers instead of himself. That's why I think he looks like a fool sometimes, to make his opponent look good. I haven't see his book so I can't commemt on that, only that I respect him now more than in his horsemen days.

Interesting tidbit...I made his bootleg card based on the way he wrestled now, and he won my main title and held it for 4 months! He even pinned Snuka and Brock! Eventually, it took Yokozuna in a cage to knock him down, so I'm impressed with that.

Jay

[Big Bri]

Hey Joe,

You made some really good points there.

I'm not sure if you noticed or not, but I tend to use a lot of sarcasm and humor in most of my posts, because I like to laugh and make other people laugh. You might have seen my post as something a little more of a serious tone. Then again, you are a big Flair fan, so I probably hit a nerve.

First, I completely agree with your comments on Michaels and Triple H. Heck, I think Triple H STILL puts on great matches, and whether he "hogs" the belt or not, Raw is a much more exciting program with him on it.

Did you happen to catch the promo Michaels did on RAW the week after Taboo Tuesday? That was the best promo I'd seen anyone do in a long time. If anybody deserves to be called "The Man" after Flair is done, Michaels is a perfect fit.

Your comments on the Vince/Flair relationship are correct as well.

However, your comments on the WCW/Flair situation got me thinking. Perhaps I could offer a little scenario that would help me get my point across better...

Let's say it's the year 2000. WCW is in the hole and Flair is no longer in the spotlight, although he's NOT angry about it, and has no ill will towards WCW (far fetched, I know, but hang with me for a second). He decides to write his autobiography THEN, and WCW gives him permission to write about whoever and whatever he wants.

With that scenario, I highly doubt Flair would've praised Michaels, Triple H, and Vince so much. You're probably thinking "Yeah, because he didn't know Michaels and Triple H like he does now", but I think it would've been because he wasn't in WWE at the time, and couldn't have gained much by doing so.

Basically, I'm thinking the reason he praised the three so much is to strengthen his position within the company, in order to "hold on" as long as he possibly can. That's what I meant by saying he was "playing the game" and that it was sad for "The Man" to do that.

As for the comedy stuff, I'm sure he's thinking "Well, I gave a quarter-century of myself to the business, so now I'm going to have a little fun," which is very entertaining, but the old-schooler in me thinks it's sad for such a legend to behave like that. Just my opinion though.

Like I said, I still love Flair myself but wish things were just a little different (as all wrestling fans do from time to time). If I had it my way, he'd call it a career at WMXXI, and then become Orton's manager. The longer he does the comedy routine, the less memory the fans will have of his legacy.

[Joe]

Bri-

I feel you about using sarcasm and humor. I do too, but I have realized that it comes off more humorous when I'm actually talking instead of typing. No, I'm not touchy about Flair so much as I had just completed three papers for various classes when I replied to your original post so it may have sounded a little more serious and argumentative than I meant for it to.

I do like the comedy stuff, but a part of me does cringe when I here him tell H that he is the greatest world champion ever.

I guess I just saw his final couple years in WCW being a far bigger disgrace than his comedy routines in WWE. It seems Flair places a high importance on entertaining fans, and as long as tens of thousands of people cheer the hell out of him when he's supposed to be the bad guy because they are so enteratined, I think he figures he he is not tarnishing his legacy.

-Joe

[Big Bri]

Joe-

That's funny. School has been a pain in my a** lately as well. I hate it because it takes me away from COTG. I haven't had the chance to play in over a month. Oh well, 2 days off for Turkey Day next week.

Yeah, I'm also very uncomfortable with Flair telling Triple H he's the greatest champ ever. I heard a rumor that the plan is for Triple H to break Flair's record of 16 World Title reigns. Although it remains to be seen, I for one hope that it doesn't happen.

Before I made my last post, I read through some of the WCW stuff in the book again, and you are right, the WCW crap was MUCH more of a disgrace then what we are seeing today. Remember when they sent him to the looney bin? Funny, yes, but an absolute disgrace to him and his legacy.

Thanks for the argument. That's the cool part about the board, in that it's always cool to bounce your opinions off other people and get different takes on things.

[Joe]

I have heard the rumor about Triple H passing the title around nine more times so he can surpass Flair. I am sure that is a rumor for one simple reason. If that is the plan, that is like a five or six year projection at the very least. Anyone that thinks Vince, regardless of what his personal relationship is with Triple H, would decide a gameplan that far in advance, especially concerning a guy who has had a pair of serious injuries over the past few years must think H put a spell on the family when he showed up. I find it funny that Rock is a seven-time champion and was at numbers five and six before Triple H, if memory serves me, yet no one ever made some huge deal of the idea that it was all set for him to hold the title a record-breaking 18 times.

[Big Bri]

Good point there Joe. I guess only time will tell.

[pikemojo]

i am gonna have to agree that flair is just kissing some butt in wwe
even though what he says is probably mostly true, he would never say most of it if he werent in wwe right now
before this current run in wwe he had only been there very briefly telling me that either he wasnt happy or vince wasnt happy with him
either way flair wouldnt leave that situation thinking highly of vince
i would think that he would write more highly of nwa/wcw since probably 90 percent of his career was there
somehow everything vince produces ends up bashing on wcw
he still cant get over it
i bought the new ecw dvd and he and heyman bash wcw quite a bit in it leaving bischoff to defend wcw and himself and it ends up making bischoff look like a bad guy
its time for vince to realize that he is no longer in competition with wcw
and back to flair he is still the man

[Joe]

pikemojo said:

i am gonna have to agree that flair is just kissing some butt in wwe
even though what he says is probably mostly true, he would never say most of it if he werent in wwe right now
before this current run in wwe he had only been there very briefly telling me that either he wasnt happy or vince wasnt happy with him
either way flair wouldnt leave that situation thinking highly of vince
i would think that he would write more highly of nwa/wcw since probably 90 percent of his career was there

Just because he spent so much time there doesn't mean he would speak highly of the organization. Ever talk to a guy who was married for 25 happy years then walks in on is best friend banging his wife. The cat may have spent 25 years with his wife, but don't expect him to speak to highly of her, either.

[Talison]

Here's my deal with Flair. I knew who Flair was when I was younger but only ever watched WWF. I started watching around Mania 2. I was a Hogan mark, but I was also big on Savage, Andre, Steamboat, Piper, and others. Even since back then I pride myself on liking different styles of guys. And even though he was toiling in a midcard tag team, I loved everything that Bret Hart did. He would eventually become my all time favorite.

So I first saw Flair when he showed up in WWF. He never really impressed me there. I can't even remember much about his time there other than the Royal Rumble which I did not see untill recently.

So around 95-96 I went to a horrible WWF House Show and stopped watching wrestling. My brother is a HUGE Hogan fan and he started getting WCW PPVs. I started watching them. When the nWo hit I was hooked on wrestling again. I started getting exposure to Flair, Sting, and others I hadn't seen much of before.

And with Flair I couldn't understand the hype. He never really impressed me. I started watching WWF again around Mania 13. I still prefered WCW at the time but I loved the heel turn Bret had made.

The thing is I liked Benoit a lot so I started paying more attention to the Horsemen. And a strange thing happened. Even though I didn't like Flair as a performer, I started slowly respecting him for all he had one in the buisness. This didn't kick in full force untill his speech on the last Nitro. And I marked for him when he showed up after Surviver Series and Invasion.

I should say that I tended to defend WCW during Invasion and even thier downturn. Managment was bad but I never thought the talent topped trying. I always feel they get a bum wrap and it's forgotten that they used to dominate the rateings when Triple H was having pig pen matches and and the 1-2-3 Kid was wearing diapers (and I don't mean in his childhood).

So Flair showing up to me was a beacon that said WCW/NWA.

Now I've come to accept Flair as one of the best. I enjoy finding old matches of his. I really appreciate that he is putting over young guys now. I appreciate what he has done an continues to do for the buisness. And when I see him in a match like his recent one with Lawler I remember why I loved wrestling for so long.

But I still have trouble figureing as to why people consider him THE best.

But that's just me....

And incidently, Rock got to 9 Titles before Hunter if you count his two WCW reigns during Invasion.