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Post by soug on Nov 4, 2004 4:52:12 GMT -5
is the wwe doing the right thing with the angle i think they are about to use?? and is this wrestler "nuts" for doing it??
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Post by wildman on Nov 4, 2004 9:42:07 GMT -5
this is just another case of the WWE "pushing the envelope". They are using a real life situation in an attempt to boost ratings and hopefully build a superstar. Is he nuts? maybe, but this may be his only chance at "the big time" The WWE is known for holding down(or sometimes letting go) of talent that are vocal about not liking the gimmick they are given   |
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Post by gamtime247 on Nov 4, 2004 9:47:12 GMT -5
I've heard a lot of people already complain about this angle, and i'm not extremely cool with it as I see it as a lack to get a new guy over so they give him something like this. In the past though these gimmicks are nothing new you had guys like the Koloffs during the Cold War, Iron Sheik praising Iran, and Baron Von Raschke walking like he was in the third reich, even guys like Slaughter saluting Saddam so its nothing really new. These angles were done pretty well so I think we will all have to see where this one goes, hopefully it doesn't get too over the top, then again I hope people don't get too offended by it as when you look at it, its nothing that different then stuff people my age grew up with.
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Post by PureHatred on Nov 4, 2004 16:29:09 GMT -5
This is just a re-packaging of the "evil foreigner" character that's always been an integral part of wrestling. At least they are doing it in a clever way and not just having the kid march around in some sort of over-the-top Muslom costume like Tiger Ali Singh.
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Post by Werner Mueck on Nov 4, 2004 16:36:04 GMT -5
The difference is 911 though. Arabs and Muslims are looked at differently by a lot of people now, they're looked at with contempt by people who didn't feel that way before 911. I was uneasy when the vignette came on and I felt infinately worse when the fans booed when Mohammad mentioned Allah. Bring the guy in, let him wrestle. Seems to be in great shape. Decent on the mic. Looks like they're going to bring him in nuetral and let the fans decide what he becomes knowing that the fans will boo him out of the building because he's Muslim. Here's an even better idea, bring in a Muslim character, don't focus on his religion, let him wrestle, and push him as a good guy.
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Post by thefamoustommyz on Nov 4, 2004 17:01:23 GMT -5
My first impression from the promo? I like it. If they keep his character like that, and don't have him go super smarmy anti-American, I'll be rooting for him.
Everyone else will hate him, sure...but I'll root for him.
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Post by wildman on Nov 4, 2004 23:39:39 GMT -5
i think it is a dam shame that American wrestling fans boo someone just because he/she is foreign. I mean american fans cheer for american heels, why not cheer for a foreign heel? Bret Hart was booed in the US but cheered for in the rest of the world. If this guy is a solid worker and good on the mic, I will cheer him on. I wish him good luck
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Post by The Artist on Nov 5, 2004 18:13:06 GMT -5
I personally have nothing wrong with it. Its jsut a gimmick of an arabian. Hes not a terrorist. Hes like Kenzo or La Resistance. I dont like how the fans just atoumatically boo him. I know hes suppose to be heel but hes a grerat athlete and cant wait to see him debut
On the other hand i dont like Simon Deans gimmick...making fun of larger people isnt funny, and the two people he picked out on raw wasnt cool either. Theyre just watching the show.....but the plant guy who came into the ring was funny and i dont have a problem about him cuz hes a wrestler and thats cool...but not the other two fans
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David Bazzy Basnett
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Post by David Bazzy Basnett on Nov 6, 2004 3:22:37 GMT -5
I think many people have been amazed this type of wrestler / s has not appeared earlier (remember Sgt Slaughter and the heat he create). I feel the Iraq conflict news wise is not as high , as at the start of the USA\UK invasion . Maybe now you can get away with it .
Is the guy nuts ? Maybe but what wrestler would not do anything for a shot at the big time . If you do not do it , Vince will only find someone who will (just like in any job not just wrestling) . So why not you . What is the guy suppose to do stay in indie .
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Post by The Artist on Nov 6, 2004 13:58:30 GMT -5
I agree David...couldnt have said it better myself
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Post by PureHatred on Nov 6, 2004 18:08:00 GMT -5
So let me get this straight: The WWE, the same fed who for the last 60 years has used gimmicks like the mexican guy dressed as a matador, the asian guy who only speaks in poorly dubbed english, the Indian chief, and the black athlete who is almost always a thug, a pimp, a criminal, or occassionally a zulu warrior.....this fed suddenly surprises you because they\re not sensitive to the plight of Muslim Americans.
The WWE....the fed that had Sgt Slaughter dressed as an Iraqi general during the Gulf War, that once used necrophilia in an angle, that has a mentally handicapped wrestler, and is now running an angle where Kane raped Lita, forced her to marry him, than accidentally caused her to abort the unborn fetus.....this is the company you're looking to for openminded reason?
Whatever. The WWE, since the Attitude era, always has and always will be based at least somewhat around steretypical characters and sophomoric humor. And T & A. It's the easiest thing to sell to its target audience: young males.
PS Fat jokes are comedy gold. Old School? South Park? SNL? You can't turn on the TV w/o seeing some fat jokes. Get over it.
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Post by Werner Mueck on Nov 6, 2004 18:40:09 GMT -5
I'm not suprised at all, I should be suprised that it took them this long. The fact is we're allies with Japan, we're not at war with France, and a doubt a mexican will be flying a jumbo jet into any of our famous buildings anytime soon. This gimmick isn't quite the same as the ones you've mentioned. Anyway, the fans didn't boo him because he's an arab, they didn't boo him because his manager spoke differently, they booed when he mentioned his religion.
And who said I cared for what WWF did w/ Tito Santana, Tony Atlas, and alot of the other racial and ethnic steriotypes. I felt uneasy when JBL went out on his border patrol party. I feel uneasy whenever a Canadian is played up to be the bad guy because he's canadian. Slaughter going Iraqi was more comedy then anything. That stuff I can live with. Playing with a volitile religon to get heat for a wrestler on TV doesn't really seem worth it. That's with all the other non-religion, non-racial, non-ethnic envelope pushing gimmicks you mentioned set aside. A lot of the gimmicks are so out there they're funny. This one isn't. I won't be suprised when Mohammad Hussan starts threatening jihad on the fans for booing him (I know he's American but this is WWE television, right).
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Post by Joe on Nov 6, 2004 19:58:55 GMT -5
So let me get this straight: The WWE, the same fed who for the last 60 years has used gimmicks like the mexican guy dressed as a matador, the asian guy who only speaks in poorly dubbed english, the Indian chief, and the black athlete who is almost always a thug, a pimp, a criminal, or occassionally a zulu warrior.....this fed suddenly surprises you because they\re not sensitive to the plight of Muslim Americans. The WWE....the fed that had Sgt Slaughter dressed as an Iraqi general during the Gulf War, that once used necrophilia in an angle, that has a mentally handicapped wrestler, and is now running an angle where Kane raped Lita, forced her to marry him, than accidentally caused her to abort the unborn fetus.....this is the company you're looking to for openminded reason? Whatever. The WWE, since the Attitude era, always has and always will be based at least somewhat around steretypical characters and sophomoric humor. And T & A. It's the easiest thing to sell to its target audience: young males. PS Fat jokes are comedy gold. Old School? South Park? SNL? You can't turn on the TV w/o seeing some fat jokes. Get over it. Why do you sound so damned angry? Some of the things you said are correct while others are slightly off base. The most confusing part of your tirade is the portion dealing with Black wrestlers. While I agree that Blacks, as well as other minorities, are often overlooked and portrayed poorly by the WWE (check my comments in threads dealing with released wrestlers and the Diva Search), who are the Blacks to which you are referring? The Godfather is obviously one (the pimp), but the others are escaping me. You mention the portrayal of the mentally challenged wrestler in you rant about closed-minded reason. Many could argue that Eugene's portrayal of a handicapped person is a positive one. He shows that just because a person is "mentally challenged" does not mean he cannot have aspirations and accomplish goals. Your references to Kane and Lita are also off base. I do not recall anyone saying Kane "raped" Lita. He may have coerced her into having relations with him, but "rape" is not what I have heard it called. "Accidentally caused her to abort the unborn fetus" is not what this scenario is usually called. It's called a miscarriage. This has nothing to do with being openminded. This a storyline, plain and simple. Things like this go on all the time in movies and on TV. I don't really like the idea of playing on a religious or ethnic background in order to create a bad guy. I understand that this is how professional wrestling has always been, but I do think that since 9/11, the nation is different. During the height of his Iraqi run, Sgt. Slaughter had to walk around in a bullet-proof vest. One can only imagine what hardships Mohammad Hussan may have to endure. |
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Post by pikemojo on Nov 7, 2004 5:56:00 GMT -5
vince mcmahon has always loved pushing peoples buttons and obviously he is doing it again based on this topic of conversation
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Post by PureHatred on Nov 7, 2004 12:16:05 GMT -5
Why do you sound so darned angry? Some of the things you said are correct while others are slightly off base. The most confusing part of your tirade is the portion dealing with Black wrestlers. While I agree that Blacks, as well as other minorities, are often overlooked and portrayed poorly by the WWE (check my comments in threads dealing with released wrestlers and the Diva Search), who are the Blacks to which you are referring? The Godfather is obviously one (the pimp), but the others are escaping me. You mention the portrayal of the mentally challenged wrestler in you rant about closed-minded reason. Many could argue that Eugene's portrayal of a handicapped person is a positive one. He shows that just because a person is "mentally challenged" does not mean he cannot have aspirations and accomplish goals. Your references to Kane and Lita are also off base. I do not recall anyone saying Kane "raped" Lita. He may have coerced her into having relations with him, but "rape" is not what I have heard it called. "Accidentally caused her to abort the unborn fetus" is not what this scenario is usually called. It's called a miscarriage. This has nothing to do with being openminded. This a storyline, plain and simple. Things like this go on all the time in movies and on TV. I don't really like the idea of playing on a religious or ethnic background in order to create a bad guy. I understand that this is how professional wrestling has always been, but I do think that since 9/11, the nation is different. During the height of his Iraqi run, Sgt. Slaughter had to walk around in a bullet-proof vest. One can only imagine what hardships Mohammad Hussan may have to endure. Bad News Brown and Slick were both examples of playing off negative black stereotypes. Jesus, in one of Slick's promo videos he's even seen eating a bucket of fried chicken and a slab of watermelon. And the WWE had Tony Atlas run around ina loin cloth with a spear and call himself Saba Simba during one of his stints. Eugene as a postitive is questionable, as I recall just as many negative posts by the IWC during his debut. There a re still many fans who find Eugene offensive. And the Kane/Lita thing is semantics. legally speaking, blackmailing someone into having sex with you is still sexual assault. The announcers may not refer to it as rape, but during all those vignettes when Lita was screaming her head off at the mere sight of Kane, the references to her being afraid of Kane forcing se on her was pretty obvious. The resulting pregnancy, wedding, and then miscarriage all plays out like a bad Lifetime movie. Basically, pikemojo said it best: the WWE pushes buttons; it tries to walk the fine line between entertaining and disgusting. If you're gong to watch the programming when it works, don't get all offended when it doesn't. |
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Post by Joe on Nov 7, 2004 14:09:57 GMT -5
I don't remember Slick with the chicken and watermellon, but I can certianly believe it. I do remember Tony Atlas with the spear, but Monty Brown is walking around in tiger print trunks in TNA right now "pouncing on people". Pistol Pez Whatley became "Shaska" in the NWA, as well. This is not necessarily an indictment of Vince McMahon as it is something that white promoters have always done.
The mentioning of Bad News Brown is a good one to discuss. Was he portrayed as a "thug" by Vince and his writers or is a Black man who is capable and willing to kick someone's ass automatically viewed as a thug by white America? I find it interesting that in the sports world, only Black athletes are ever referred to as thugs. Roger Clemens took a broken piece of a ball bat and chucked it Mike Piazza, but the word "thug" was never used to describe him. I may be wrong, but I think John Cena is the first white guy to have been referred to as a thug by a broadcaster, and that was only after he started calling himself the Dr. of Thuganomics.
For the record, I am not offended by WWE's programming, nor have I ever really been. I thought the Katie Vick storyline was about the closest to being disgusting a storyline has ever been. Hell, even that was funny in parts.
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Post by wildman on Nov 7, 2004 14:24:50 GMT -5
For the record Taz has been called a thug and he is not black, he is actually italian ;D
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Post by Joe on Nov 7, 2004 17:14:54 GMT -5
Thank you. I stand corrected. However, I stand by the statement that I have never heard of a white athlete, not even Jason Williams of the Memphis Grizzlies, being referred to as a thug.
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Post by ringsyde on Nov 7, 2004 21:49:50 GMT -5
Black athletes in wrestling are generally treated much like black musicians were in the budding days of rock and roll. These guys inspired some of the greatest stars in the business to be icons (Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan and Dusty Rhodes have all identified their gimmicks as borrowing heavily from Black dialect, attitude and slang, just as Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis and the Big Bopper did during their hey days), but the black wrestlers are often cast as head-butting mandingo's with nothing but raw power and street cred to compare with the "other" wrestlers. While the sheer talent and skill of Dory Dixon, Luther Lindsay and Jim Mitchell rivaled anyone in wrestling, fans remeber the ghetto brash of JYD and Big Cat Ernie Ladd and the jungle savagery of Kamala and Abdullah because the gimmicks fell in line with some wrong notion about the race that made the white legends who beat them even more credible and cool.
After watching years of wrestling, only recently can I - a Black man - say with any confidence that I feel the culture is better represented. The Rock, Shelton Benjamin and Booker T. have done a lot to eradicate the old "jive talking black person from the hood" mental that went on for years (Booker is pretty close from time to time, but it's not consistent) by combining technical wrestling (sans the head butt or butt bump), mike skills and non-phrenologically based physiques to make themselves look like true competitors instead of stereotyped gimmicks.
I think several of you got it right when you opined that this is wrestling, and issues of race and ethnicity work far differently in this world. Do you suppose a young, black sports entertainer whose only chance at Monday night lights is to strut out to the ring, either rhyming or sharing his street credentials between headbutts and dance steps, is going to say no to this? Not in this business. Neither is an islamic, an Asian or anyone else who's serious about success in sports entertainment, and who happens to fit into an exploitable stereotype.
Looks like Vince got it right with the men so that he could purify the women's division.
Until people stop thinking all blacks have big lips . . .
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Post by Swarm on Nov 7, 2004 22:31:23 GMT -5
I guess you forgot about Ron Simmons.
He won the WCW World heavyweight Title from a big white monster (who also lived in the WHITE castle of Fear) named Vader.
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