WTF?!

[Swarm]

Guest-Like said:

Circular illogic mixed with collectivizing...how quaint!



Thank you for taking the time to publicly announce that you don't read in full the posts you reply to. While not a good habit...it does explain a lot.



Successful promoters like Vince, Don Owens, Eddie Graham and George Scott must have forgotten about this little forbidden rule of yours while they were making money booking title switches with promotional debuts for years on end. I guess for example when The Rock n Roll Express won the NWA World Tag belts on their JCP television debut it is was a horrible idea that should NEVER have happened...with the fact that the team got over and drew money for the promotion for years on end being a regrettable consequence.

Or in countless times where with no television build up wrestlers from elsewhere during the territory days would 'debut' with shock house show title wins over local favorites, often reviving dead promotions in the process with new programs and headliners apart from the status quo. It's known as 'hot shotting' an area...but I guess this should have 'never' happened even though it's historical been beneficial to the business for years on end. After all, Swarm equipped with his infinite wisdom sans an extensive track record of real world success in the wrestling industry has chosen to forbid it!

Heaven forbid Carlito should have won a secondary title upon his debut on Smackdown after weeks of build up and television time, just as the reigning champ is off to shoot a movie and take a leave. Next thing you know the kid may actual draw money and become a productive member of the company just as countless others have done through this proven booking formula in times past. The immediate results have seen ratings up and Carlito's quarter hours scoring strong...but still it 'never' should have happened...as anyone who sees logic in a proven time tested formula is merely an 'idiot' or is 'retarded'.

Nice try kid...but you really need to work on your trolling!

Holy crap, look at all that you wrote. And no, I didn't read it, like many others. Am I supposed too???

You obviously like wrasslin' a lot more than me to even mention the rock n roll express when I'm talking about the last 3 weeks of Smackdown, 2-0-0-4.

wow.

[Like Watching Paint Dry]

Guest-Swarm said:

"Holy crap, look at all that you wrote."

If you think that's 'a lot' I pity your reading comprehension skills.

Guest-Swarm said:

"And no, I didn't read it, like many others. Am I supposed too"

Now, now...if you 'didn't read it' than how were you able to quote content below? There's no need to run...stand up and defend yourself son.

Guest-Swarm said:

"You obviously like wrasslin' a lot more than me"

Your confused again. 'Liking' a subject is not synonymous with being knowledgeable on it. In other words having an understanding of 'why' things are done as they are is not the same as 'liking' it in execution. It does however avoid making 'kooky' claims like you did in your initial troll post...a post you utterly failed to defend.

Now Swarm we both know that really wasn't much of a response. Posting with no follow through to even attempt to defend your arguments is kind of pathetic. I suspect that you can do better than that providing one is willing to carry you.

Instead of using the 'I troll posts then don't defend myself when my argument is squashed' spot...why don't you entertain the board.

I invite you to roll out the reasons 'why' you state that "It is NEVER acceptable to put a title on a new guy, in his first match, ever."

Don't be shy, explain yourself, educate the board with your wisdom and in the process enlighten and entertain. You may just learn something along the way.

I'll even make an effort to be gentle in response...


"The essence of evil, the one sin that makes all other forms of moral corruption possible, is evasion. The act of blanking out, the willful suspension of one’s consciousness, the refusal to think — not blindness, but the refusal to see; not ignorance, but the refusal to know.”

-Ayn Rand

[Swarm]

Guest-Like said:

If you think that's 'a lot' I pity your reading comprehension skills.



Now, now...if you 'didn't read it' than how were you able to quote content below? There's no need to run...stand up and defend yourself son.



Your confused again. 'Liking' a subject is not synonymous with being knowledgeable on it. In other words having an understanding of 'why' things are done as they are is not the same as 'liking' it in execution. It does however avoid making 'kooky' claims like you did in your initial troll post...a post you utterly failed to defend.

Now Swarm we both know that really wasn't much of a response. Posting with no follow through to even attempt to defend your arguments is kind of pathetic. I suspect that you can do better than that providing one is willing to carry you.

Instead of using the 'I troll posts then don't defend myself when my argument is squashed' spot...why don't you entertain the board.

I invite you to roll out the reasons 'why' you state that "It is NEVER acceptable to put a title on a new guy, in his first match, ever."

Don't be shy, explain yourself, educate the board with your wisdom and in the process enlighten and entertain. You may just learn something along the way.

I'll even make an effort to be gentle in response...


"The essence of evil, the one sin that makes all other forms of moral corruption possible, is evasion. The act of blanking out, the willful suspension of one’s consciousness, the refusal to think — not blindness, but the refusal to see; not ignorance, but the refusal to know.”

-Ayn Rand

wow. Can u believe this guy?

I'll give you ONE reason why...The No.1 contender spot. If it's his first match (or THIER first match if we are talking about 1906 and the rock n roll express) then what is the point of the no. 1 contender spot?

Swallow it, admit it, and shut-it. Just because you feel the need to disect and over-analyze ever freaking sentence someone might write about something you don't agree with doesn't make you any better than anyone else here.

YOU DON'T MAKE THE PLAY-OFFS without a few wins, WHY WOULD YOU WIN A BELT, in your first match?

No respone required.

[thefamoustommyz]

Because wrestling barely even PRETENDS to be a "sport".

Fact is, everything boils down to a business decision. Every last "rule" of wrestling is mutable when the guys in charge want them to be.

This ain't the NFL, MLB, NBA, NCAA or any other legit sporting event. You can't use wins or losses to dictate things in pro wrestling, because none of the matches are legitimate competitions, just acts in a play with a pretense of sports about them.

[wildman]

The said:

Because wrestling barely even PRETENDS to be a "sport".

Wait, wrestlings NOT real? Just kidding. I started this thread to vent my anger, not to have people attack each other. I REQUEST THAT THIS THREAD BE CLOSED!

[Like Watching Paint Dry]

Guest-Swarm said:

"I'll give you ONE reason why...The No.1 contender spot."

Posting with substance...a marked improvement. Slowly but surely I'm training you well!

Guest-Swarm said:

"If it's his first match (or THIER first match if we are talking about 1906 and the rock n roll express) then what is the point of the no. 1 contender spot?"

I feel I'm about to break news on the order of the myth of the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus to a child. Ah...here goes anyway! Sorry to break this to you kid but the 'point' of the number 1 contender spot, serves the same purpose as the 'point' of faces, heels, feuds, titles, screw jobs, ref bumps, high spots, transitions, angles and various other elements with-in pro wrestling. The 'point' is to tell a story that hopeful (when successful) draws money. That is the 'point'. There is no other reason behind the existence of a number 1 contender spot. In point of fact the very process of 'contenders' for 'titles' in pro wrestling is a WORKED process designed to tell a story, not some absolute with unbreakable logic in order of execution. So when we you said in your opening post below:

Swarm: "It is NEVER acceptable to put a title on a new guy, in his first match, ever. And if you don't know that, you are freaking stupid. Big surprise there."

With this comment you have entered the realm of Alice and Wonderland. In other words, you're force feeding a confused, misguided and half assed sense of 'logic' into an 'illogical' realm, when in reality the very formula you FORBID has ALWAYS been a staple of pro wrestling, and a technique that has been beneficial to business. In other words your's a very 'loopy' way of thinking.

I'd add the 'point' of the Rock n Roll Express example is to illustrate that promotional title changes with debuts have been a successful formula in the business for time immemorial. Ignoring this fact further makes your case that "It is NEVER acceptable to put a title on a new guy, in his first match, ever. And if you don't know that, you are freaking stupid. Big surprise there"...even more goofy.

Guest-Swarm said:

"Swallow it, admit it, and shut-it."

Highly unlikely!

Guest-Swarm said:

"Just because you feel the need to disect and over-analyze ever freaking sentence someone might write about something you don't agree with doesn't make you any better than anyone else here."

You're confused again. It's called discourse. By reacting to what people write as it was written, and then proceeding to respond in future exchanges in context leads to better content and better understanding. That is providing one means what they say and is making an intellectually honest attempt to communicate. It's my experience that only those who are unable to stand behind their words whine and complain like children about it. Especially trolls.

I'd add many of us enjoy these types of exchanges even if the 'mark' doesn't learn anything in the process. It's often informative and entertaining on different levels to different people.

Guest-Swarm said:

"YOU DON'T MAKE THE PLAY-OFFS without a few wins, WHY WOULD YOU WIN A BELT, in your first match?"

As explained above, your analogy is misguided because your comparing apples to oranges. Pro wrestling is not a sport. It is entertainment, not an objective athletic competition. In this day and age it does even pretend to be.

The 'point' of everything you see is to tell a story that makes money. Certain booking formulas (such as hot shot debut title wins) have proven successful at the box office on a consistent basis. That's really all there is to it. Or in your words..."Swallow it, admit it, and shut-it."

Guest-Swarm said:

"No respone required."

I suspect you meant 'response'...and with myself one was forthcoming by choice...no 'permission' from you required!



"Trolls are most entertaining when they are publicly exposed for their incompetence."

-Peter McWilliams

[Chris Ingersoll]

wildman said:

Wait, wrestlings NOT real? Just kidding. I started this thread to vent my anger, not to have people attack each other. I REQUEST THAT THIS THREAD BE CLOSED!

Tempting, but no. There's almost a rational argument breaking out here. Anyone not interested in the topic can move along, but I'll leave this active for now.

[thefamoustommyz]

Chris said:

Tempting, but no. There's almost a rational argument breaking out here. Anyone not interested in the topic can move along, but I'll leave this active for now.

Oh, my apologies, boss...I'll move right to the name-calling and get it over with...=)

[Joe]

Why would anyone want to lock up a thread just because people are aguing? After all, that is what human beings do when they have differing opinions about a topic they are passionate about.

Now, I will weigh in on the idea of newcomers receiving title shots in their first appearance. Not only does it happen in wrestling, but it also happens in boxing. Well, sort of. Many a fighter who is moving up in weight has challenged for a World title in his first fight in his new weight class. This is due to fights at lower classes. It is no guarantee that the fighter will be near as good as at the previous weight, but that is a risk that the fight promoter takes. Wrestling, since it is technically not a 'sport', does not have to obey any rules pertaining to contender status, but I did find it necessary to offer up another example of number one contenders being leapfrogged by an outsider.

[Swarm]

LWPD, ya know what? I don't even know what "trolling" means.

You obviously live on the internet, and in on-line role-playing games for sure where you can be all you want to be.

If you are teaching me something, it is that thank God my parents put me in sports as a child as to keep me from becoming a computer-driven ego-maniacal wrestling junkie hell bent on driving his point home with big words and psycho-babble.

I'm too busy enjoying taking my daughter to the park, my dogs on walks, the football season, the baseball play-offs, working on the yard, training at the gym, and running a few miles OUTSIDE a few times a week to EVER sit my butt in front of a computer screen and amuse myself with long-drawn-out retorte, high-lighted by stupid little smiley faces, and all the while, think I'm getting one over someone else.

If you think putting that belt on him was a good idea. FIne. I think that makes you wrong beyond wrong and everything that is wrong with wrestling fans today. I'm allowed to think that without having a debate as to why. or at least, in the real world I am.

WRESTLING SUCKS. And has sucked for a long time lately. And as long as there are people out there like you, who say BRAVO! to putting a belt on a guy in his first match wrestling will continue to SUCK.

In closing, if the No. 1 contender spot means NOTHING, as according to you. Then matches to determine the No.1 contender, including the royal rumble, apparently mean nothing as well. And if those matches mean NOTHING, then WHY would you be a wrestling fan?

The No. 1 spot ALWAYS DID mean something until people like you accepted that it didn't. It's fans like you that keep wrestling down. I bet you ordered TTuesday also? And every other peice of crap PPV the WWE puts out furthering thier belief that ANY CRAP they put out there will be swallowed up by sheep like you, who like wrasslin' cause it's wrasslin'.

[Like Watching Paint Dry]

Guest-Swarm said:

"LWPD, ya know what? I don't even know what "trolling" means."

I suspect there are many words to which you don't know the meaning. For your edification, I present to you the Field Guide to Trolls:

www.themartialist.com/pecom/fieldguidetotrolls.htm

Guest-Swarm said:

"You obviously live on the internet, and in on-line role-playing games for sure where you can be all you want to be."

Although posting is a hobby of mine, that statement...much like most of what you have written in this thread, would be false. Although I do 'enjoy' the Internet...and interacting with someone like yourself always puts a smile on my face!

That said...let us proceed with the horsewhipping!

Guest-Swarm said:

"If you are teaching me something, it is that thank God my parents put me in sports as a child as to keep me from becoming a computer-driven ego-maniacal wrestling junkie hell bent on driving his point home with big words and psycho-babble."

Actually 'educating' you was never the primary goal as I suspected one with such a closed limited mind is beyond teaching...your primary purpose is that of entertainment! And if the words I write are too 'big' for you...that's rather sad.

Guest-Swarm said:

"I'm too busy enjoying taking my daughter to the park, my dogs on walks, the football season, the baseball play-offs, working on the yard, training at the gym blah,blah. blah"

LMAO! I'm truly at a loss here! I'll just state the obvious that this isn't the Oprah show and I'm really not sure what you are trying to convince yourself of here. Not being a trained therapists I'll leave this area well enough alone. There are professionals for this type of thing and don't be afraid to reach out for help.

Guest-Swarm said:

"If you think puttingthat belt on him was a good idea. FIne. I think that makes you wrong beyond wrong and everything that is wrong with wrestling fans today."

First problem...there is no such entity as 'wrestling fans today' with an abject unified ideology. Each fan exists individually, with individual biases and preferences. Lumping people together into some mass that you can attack is the act of a child, akin to racism, sexism, xenophobia and many other goofy stereotypical sentiments.

Second problem...your taking an element in pro wrestling that has existed since days of Farmer Burns and traveling carnivals in the 19th Century where 'ringers' in the audience would defeat Champions in debut challenge matches...and masking it as something that is exclusively 'wrong with wrestling fans today.' If you have a problem with the concept, at least have the integrity to label it properly...as a long established element that has existed since the beginning of the business. If accepting debut title wins is wrong...than pro wrestling itself has been 'wrong beyond wrong' since it's inception...and you should really reconsider just what it is you think your watching.

Guest-Swarm said:

"I'm allowed to think that without having a debate as to why. or at least, in the real world I am."

Nobody ever said you didn't have a right to draw your own conclusions...as limited as they may be. Yet when one makes statements in the context of entering a thread on an Internet DISCUSSION BOARD...you should expect for your opinions and statements to be...wonder of all wonders.... DISCUSSED! If not, there is no purpose to posting on a DISCUSSION BOARD. If this is too big a problem for you I suggest substituting a wall as your medium of interaction.

Guest-Swarm said:

"WRESTLING SUCKS. And has sucked for a long time lately. And as long as there are people out there like you, who say BRAVO! to putting a belt on a guy in his first match wrestling will continue to SUCK."

That's a circular statement kid. Show me more steak and less sizzle. In others back up 'why' you make this claim, you've shown marked improvement from your first post...don't quit on me now!

Guest-Swarm said:

"In closing, if the No. 1 contender spot means NOTHING, as according to you."

Well in your 'closing statement' your lack of reading comprehension skills come to the forefront. Not surprisingly you need to read more carefully. This is why it's best to quote people verbatim...eliminates the misinterpretations (unless one is being intentionally misrepresentative!)

I never said the 'number one contender' element meant nothing. Nowhere will you find that in anything I wrote. I said it is merely one element and formula among many in the storytelling process. It has the same 'point' and purpose as a myriad of other alternative elements. Most importantly it's use does not negate the use of any of the other elements...ESPECIALLY booking formulas that have proven successful time and time again in pro wrestling history.

Guest-Swarm said:

"Then matches to determine the No.1 contender, including the royal rumble, apparently mean nothing as well."

LOL. Your presentation reminds me of a stack of dominoes. One part of your argument trips over another until it all crumbles in a massive heap. One mistake leads to a series of others.

Something like the Royal Rumble is a event designed to...tell a story. The establishment of a 'number one contender' by way of a winner is...another element in the story. That's all it is, an element in the midst of alternative elements. Nothing more and nothing less. No better and no worse. Got it yet?

Guest-Swarm said:

"And if those matches mean NOTHING, then WHY would you be a wrestling fan?"

Again...look where your error in thinking has lead you...to another erroneous goofy conclusion. Go back and check your premise. People are wrestling fans for a myriad of reasons. In the end, they buy products and remain 'fans' of pro wrestling because they are somehow 'entertained' by it. So long as that is happening, the goal of 'why' the elements in pro wrestling are executed is being achieved. That all there is to it.

Guest-Swarm said:

"The No. 1 spot ALWAYS DID mean something until people like you accepted that it didn't."

More of your Alice and Wonderland logic with the Peter Pan like belief in a Never Never Land where things worked the way you 'wish' they should. Yet from the start of pro wrestling, there were debut title wins taking place...fans who reacted favorably to it, wrestlers who made paydays off it and promoters who cashed in on the formula.

Even if Dorothy clicked the heels of her red shoes together and chanted 'there's no place like home'..searching for that mythical place in time 'Somewhere Over the Rainbow' where promotional debut wins were NEVER accepted and the 'number 1 contender' formula reigned without question...it would all be for naught. Why...because such a time and place in pro wrestling never existed. BTW...is the dog you walk named Totto?

Guest-Swarm said:

"It's fans like you that keep wrestling down."

Knowledgeable fans who understand how the business works keeps it down?

Guest-Swarm said:

"I bet you ordered TTuesday also?"

Another strike out. You're batting zero for infinity on this thread!

Guest-Swarm said:

"And every other peice of crap PPV the WWE puts out furthering thier belief that ANY CRAP they put out there will be swallowed up by sheep like you, who like wrasslin' cause it's wrasslin'."

Like I said at the outset, although you do entertain me for the laugh factor...you really need to work on your trolling! A course in Critical Thinking also wouldn't hurt. Nowhere to go but up...

Care to roll out more reasons why...

Swarm: "It is NEVER acceptable to put a title on a new guy, in his first match, ever. And if you don't know that, you are freaking stupid. Big surprise there."

I'd love to see more!

[Chris Ingersoll]

Joe said:

Why would anyone want to lock up a thread just because people are aguing? After all, that is what human beings do when they have differing opinions about a topic they are passionate about.

They wouldn't.

They would, however, lock up a thread that has been so consumed by flaming and name-calling that the original spirit of the thread has been completely lost. This thread is heading that way soon, since Swarm seems to have StoneEared himself and LWPD is just repeating the same thing over and over.

One more loop without progress and this thread is done.

[thefamoustommyz]

WELL.

I sure did like that whole Booker T angle at the end of Smackdown.

Made me mark out for the first time since...jeez...Palumbo/O'Haire squashed Luger/Bagwell, I think.

The point of my post?

To show that I really don't think everything they're doing on Smackdown is poo...=)

[Swarm]

Chris,

Lock it up if you want. I'm cool with that. This isn't an english class, or a freaking psych class.

This old man does nothing to bruise me. Putting the US Title on CCC in his first match was wrong. Period.

I've been informed through e-mail as to who LWPD is, and I'm not surprised. I actually suspected it. Thanks TT. You made me look good.

[Like Watching Paint Dry]

Chris said:

"LWPD is just repeating the same thing over and over."

Eh...there's only so many ways to dress up one plus one equals two. But your right, ideally...

"One must separate from anything that forces one to repeat. No again and again"

- Friedrich Nietzsche

I'd add had 'Swarm' simply posted something like: "I prefer pro wrestling storylines that have titles revolving around contenders...that's my preference"...I'd have had no problem with that. For the most part...I'd even agree.

Yet that's a bit different from saying:

Swarm: "It is NEVER acceptable to put a title on a new guy, in his first match, ever. And if you don't know that, you are freaking stupid. Big surprise there."

It's akin to saying:

Random Imbecile: "It is NEVER acceptable for a Movie Theater to sell pop corn and soda. And if you don't know that, you are freaking stupid. Big surprise there."

or

Random Goofball: "It is NEVER acceptable for a Grocery store to sell milk and eggs. And if you don't know that, you are freaking stupid. Big surprise there."

When someone drops context on that level, invoking 'rules' that negate the very purpose of why something exists in the first place, my funny bone is tickled.

Heck for entertainment value alone...I couldn't resist. : ;D