New Smackdown GM

[Joe]

I am the exception to Smoke Father's supposed rule. I have been a wrestling fan for over two decades. During the mid-1980s, I preferred watching Bill Watts' UWF or Mid-South promotion to anything on WWF television. I regularly watch NWA-TNA. I think I qualify as a true wrestling fan. That said, I am a huge fan of Triple H. When I say fan, that doesn't mean that I sit in front of the TV with my "Time to play the Game" shirt on blowing water. What I mean is that I always pay attention to his matches and promos because he can evoke emotion, and that is a talent that far too few current pro wrestlers possess.

I have one question about Triple H's status. If he is not in the position of top heel, who takes his place? Its easy to have complaints, but how many have answers. Let's look at RAW's current bad guys:

1) Christian- Excellent performer, but really can anyone see him in a Triple H-esque role? His heel status leans more in the direction of X-Pac: Disliking him because he seems like a piece of shit in real life, not just while in character. All that did for X-Pac was put him on the unemployment line.

2) Kane- He's a monster, yes, but the top heel has to have certain charisma. Kane doesn't have that. He also does not have the ability to perform with anyone the way people such as H, Kurt Angle, etc. have.

3) Edge- When he comes back, if healthy, Edge could be a legitimate number one bad guy. If he's healthy, and that appeared to be a big "if" on his last comeback. He was very entertaining as a heel in the past, so this is possibly a reasonable suggestion.

4) Bautista- He's a monster as well, but if anyone thinks he deserves this role over the Game they are out on a pass.

5) Randy Orton- I know he is currently a good guy, but he has shown he can play a hell of an antagonist. However, as much as people complain about Lesnar getting too much, too soon, I can't see why they would want Orton permanently elevated to top guy just yet.

[Like Watching Paint Dry]

Talison said:

Now that is the proof I was looking for. I can admit when I'm wrong.

Also I find it interesting that so many complain Hunter was Handed the World Belt.

Buddy Rogers was handed the WWWF World Belt
Pat Patterson was handed the IC Belt
Ted DiBiase was handed the shortlived WWF North American Belt
Mick Foley was handed the Hardcore Title
Verne Gagne essesntially was handed the AWA World Title.
Thesz won his first NWA World title when Orville Brown could not appear do to injury. Brown had been recognized as Champion by the board when the NWA formed.

Handing Champions titles isall to common. Not that that makes it right.

In all of those cases, you're dealing with either:

i. The creation of a new title for a new promotion (with Brown/Thesz transitional)

ii. The creation of a secondary title

In the case of the World (Raw) belt, you have the automatic establishment of a primary Champion with the automatic downgrading of an existing Champion (just by creation of a new 'equal' title for the Raw brand)

While I can understand the creative necessity in times of Kayfabe of making up tournaments in Brazil to give a title legitimacy, or Verne starting his own company and naming himself Champion, or the NWA trying to get the feds off their back with the anti-trust suit with a unified Champ...there is no legit creative reason for Hunter to be made Champion by fiat.

The Raw television show could have been used as the basis to have a tournament or some other format to entertain fans, generate revenue and crown a new brand Champion. Instead we get 'Hunter is the star of the show' routine and the handing of the new belt to him in an ego-f&ck

It's poor booking and accomplishes nothing in terms of creating new storylines or elevating new talent. In the course of that particular reign Hunter 'vetoed' title runs for RVD and Booker T (who was supposed to win at WM) as we instead got more of the Hunter is Raw show as he worked extended programs with his friends (Michaels & Nash)

The decline that followed in all measurable categories of business speaks for itself...

[Like Watching Paint Dry]

Joe said:

I am the exception to Smoke Father's supposed rule. I have been a wrestling fan for over two decades. During the mid-1980s, I preferred watching Bill Watts' UWF or Mid-South promotion to anything on WWF television. I regularly watch NWA-TNA. I think I qualify as a true wrestling fan. That said, I am a huge fan of Triple H. When I say fan, that doesn't mean that I sit in front of the TV with my "Time to play the Game" shirt on blowing water. What I mean is that I always pay attention to his matches and promos because he can evoke emotion, and that is a talent that far too few current pro wrestlers possess.

I have one question about Triple H's status. If he is not in the position of top heel, who takes his place? Its easy to have complaints, but how many have answers. Let's look at RAW's current bad guys:

1) Christian- Excellent performer, but really can anyone see him in a Triple H-esque role? His heel status leans more in the direction of X-Pac: Disliking him because he seems like a piece of shoot in real life, not just while in character. All that did for X-Pac was put him on the unemployment line.

2) Kane- He's a monster, yes, but the top heel has to have certain charisma. Kane doesn't have that. He also does not have the ability to perform with anyone the way people such as H, Kurt Angle, etc. have.

3) Edge- When he comes back, if healthy, Edge could be a legitimate number one bad guy. If he's healthy, and that appeared to be a big "if" on his last comeback. He was very entertaining as a heel in the past, so this is possibly a reasonable suggestion.

4) Bautista- He's a monster as well, but if anyone thinks he deserves this role over the Game they are out on a pass.

5) Randy Orton- I know he is currently a good guy, but he has shown he can play a hell of an antagonist. However, as much as people complain about Lesnar getting too much, too soon, I can't see why they would want Orton permanently elevated to top guy just yet.

Joe brings up a good point. The talent pool from with-in it's shakey...but even worse the talent base from without is more dismal than ever before. It times past, Vince could raid a territory or WCW and have competent fresh blood to work with. Just from Watts alone Vince got Hacksaw Duggan, the Million Dollar Man, One Man Gang, Kamala, Terry Taylor and so many others.

Today we have few options for breeding grounds. The indy's work a reckless style with the vast majority being physically too small for what Vince looks for. We're basically limited to OVW turnouts. Vince has plans to fund more OVW style camps around the country, which will help down the road big time. But what about right now?

Once in a blue moon we'll get a Brock Lesnar or Kurt Angle who are ready right from the get go, yet the reality is the standard turn out will need extensive gradual promotion (Randy Orton, John Cena) or just be very difficult to use effectively (Tomko, Heidenreich, Kenzo). Times are tough and there are few easy solutions.

In 1996 from a creative standpoint WWE was on it's ass. Vince was raided, ratings were declining and there was no slush fund as they hadn't gone public yet. He needed to create new stars to survive and took some risks. Vince threw Rockabilly and Road Dog together and out of nowhere the New ge Outlaws got over. Vince took a guy with great athleticism but never renowned for his look or promo skills, lifted the censors, gave him bear and threw heavy television time around him. Stone Cold Steve Austin became the top draw in the history of the business. Vince pulled mid card Hunter out of hog pen matches and repackaged blue chipper Rocky Maivia through extended pushes and they became major draws. Vince took an out of shape mid card bump taker with underrated charisma and had him beat the Undertaker, culminating with him falling from the top of the Hell in the Cell. He became a legend and best selling author. Vince changed creative direction, made Russo head writer and brought about the Attitude era. The format caught on and worked. The company became worth a billion dollars at it's peak.

Would any of this have happened had Vince stood with the status quo? Would it have worked had Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels retained their top spots unchallenged in late 1997/early 1998? Having your back to the wall and being in a position where you need to create room at the top to survive tends to create opportunities for the talent that doesn't necessarily exist otherwise.

With over $250 million in cash reserves and still being strongly profitable each quarter depite all sectors of business declining, the mentality that 'WWE must improve to survive' just isn't there. Neither does the likelihood of Vince taking risks to revamp the product creatively.

I'm not a fantasy booker. Who knows what any of the heels you listed can achieve in the future if Vince lets loose and takes chances on them? The same is true for the faces. Ideally I'd love to see a breaking of the glass ceiling that sees Vince take some chances in promoting and elevating the talent in new matches and stories. Give others the ball and lets see who can get over and lead the company.

Or we can have more of the same, which is the path I think we're going on long term into the future.

[Big Bri]

Do I "believe" that Triple H books himself in the spotlight. Yes, but I must admit, for the summer of 2004, RAW was as exciting as it was during the Attitude era (although the fighting champion Benoit had to do with most of that). Heck, my girlfriend even started watching it again (even when I couldn't be at home with her!).

Triple H is the best heel in the business, bar none, and when he's not in the title picture, things get boring. I think part of his ego-booking is just to make RAW a better show. After 9 title wins, I think he's served his ego enough and just wants RAW to be successful as it possibly can be, even if that means putting the belt on himself.

[Like Watching Paint Dry]

BigBri said:

Do I "believe" that Triple H books himself in the spotlight. Yes, but I must admit, for the summer of 2004, RAW was as exciting as it was during the Attitude era (although the fighting champion Benoit had to do with most of that). Heck, my girlfriend even started watching it again (even when I couldn't be at home with her!).

Triple H is the best heel in the business, bar none, and when he's not in the title picture, things get boring. I think part of his ego-booking is just to make RAW a better show. After 9 title wins, I think he's served his ego enough and just wants RAW to be successful as it possibly can be, even if that means putting the belt on himself.

I agree that he Triple H is the best 'heel' in the business, but for very different reasons. Moral judgments aside he is no doubt the 'smartest' person in the business I've ever seen. He has through his actions and chosen relationships gained control of a promotion at a level no other wrestler without direction ownership ever has. It's simply amazing.

Her'e a snip from this weeks Wrestling Observer newsletter. Dave Meltzer is close friends with Ric Flair, who reads every issue as does Hunter. These comments are addressed directly to Paul Levesque the person, and are things nobody who values there job in WWE will say directly to his face:

"RAW contained the single most selfish performance I can recall. I used to think the single most selfish high profile performance was a WCW Souled Out 2000 PPV match on January 16, 2000, when Kevin Nash destroyed Terry Funk, sold nothing for him, put him through a table, and beat him when they had that match for the commissioner’s job in WCW (an angle designed to bury Ric Flair again, except Flair refused to come back for it). The HHH vs. Jeff Hardy feud was one people have talked about for the past few years, but neither came close to the HHH vs. Eugene cage match. Not only did Eugene get treated as a total joke the week before when they did the fake job ("What do you mean I never lose, why I put over Rey Mysterio" says Nash), including not even giving him the easy comeback off the sleeper, but this week was even worse.

Granted, it was HHH's match to win. He's in the main event on the PPV six days later. Also, if they want to do an injury angle, that's fine. But in those circumstances, a heel should make the babyface before destroying him. Fans had already given up on Eugene as a top guy from HHH outsmarting him and beating him at SummerSlam, but he was buried underground on this one. Not only did he no longer have his Danny Hodge grip strength, but he no longer had his savant like wrestling skill.

In this case, Eugene went into the cage scared to death, and the only babyface in history who got over as being a chicken was Mikey Whipwreck, and that was a unique short-term deal. HHH destroyed him, made him juice, on several situations had him beat but instead of showing Eugene had guts for holding on when it would be smart for him to quit (same result of HHH being a bully, but giving Eugene something), HHH had to show he had the match won, that Eugene wasn't even in his league, and he could beat him at will. Usually when you do that story, it's to set up the slipping on a banana peel finish where the heel's cockiness cost him (which is an old main-eventer trick where the main-eventer says, "What do you mean I never lose" and then the next week when the face is over less after winning, can point out, "I put him over, but the people just won't get with him.").

Instead, the heel once again becomes the face. He gets things done. The face is impotent, and who in 2004 wants to root for an uncompetitive loser? There was a time when this should have been a major issue, like when Jeff Hardy's so-called elevation ended up destroying his credibility and heat (and I guess you can argue, in the long run, Hardy was on a course of self- destruction if HHH hadn’t have gotten the job done first). Now the company has already taught its fan base not to get behind any new characters because the game isn't to watch guys start at the bottom and work their way up, but the game is, see how few weeks before their push is bungled or dropped.

I just think it's funny that 14 years ago, Kevin Sullivan and Ric Flair argued over a TV match where Flair wrestled Brian Pillman the week before a Flair/Lex Luger PPV match. Flair wanted to make Pillman and lose via DQ on TV. Sullivan insisted, and got his way, saying Flair had to win because he's in the main event on the PPV. But even in the situation where he had to win and it was his time to be selfish, Flair sold like crazy for Pillman, had a **** TV match with him, making Pillman by beating him, and Flair still went over in the end.

Then 14 years later, the guy who aspires to be Flair does everything Flair would never do. If Flair was put in the position where he was to injure a mid-level face, he's giving that face most of the match and tons of near falls and the injury’s due to the veteran's desperation and fear of losing. In fact, I'd bet money the face injures himself or gets hurt by interference before Flair is in the position to humiliate and injure him seriously. Anyway, I do think if you combine the good qualities of Flair and HHH, you've got almost the ultimate performer. You take Flair's night-after-night workrate. You take Flair's natural charisma. You take Flair's promo ability. You take Flair's ability to make people. You take Flair's ability to have a good match every night. You take Flair's drive to always have the best match on the show. And you take HHH's, ummm, height, and you'll have one hell of a career."

[Joe]

To say that Triple H halted the run of an up-and-coming supertar by kicking the s**t out of Eugene in a cage is asenine. First of all, anyone who thinks that Eugene is guy on the verge of longterm mega-stardom is on crack. Plain and simple. Take away the clapping and smiling and waving and wanting to be everybody's friend and you have Nick Dinsmore. A pretty decent wrestler who had so much going for him that he was unable to get out of the Louisville wrestling scene until he did a rework of Cameron Diaz's brother in There's Something About Mary.

Granted, the match could have been a little more back and forth, but the snuffing out of a major run? Honestly, how long of a shelf-life did the character of Eugene really have?

Another comment in the article is strange as well. The author sounds as if he is blaming, at least in part, H for ruining Jeff Hardy's career. Other sources I have heard say Hardy is just like a lot of other athletes who have a tremendous gift but have very little appreciation for it. I have read numerous reports that Hardy's major loves were music and art. There is the implication that the skill he possesses in the wrestling ring is somewhat of an afterthought to him. I do not know if this is true or not. It would not, however, be the first time somewhat looks at their chosen profession with a bit of scorn while longing to do what someone else does, perhaps someone who would trade spots with them in a second. Marlon Brando is a perfect example of this. He is the greatest perfomer in the history of American cinema, but was embarassed by the fact that he was a screen actor rather than a theatrical one.

It seems that this is an example of a guy being a target and people throwing whatever they want to at him. The criticisms and allegations leveled in Meltzer's article are very much a stretch.

[Like Watching Paint Dry]

The crux of Meltzer's article is the drawing of comparisons between two very different ways of working as a heel. In broad dimensions there is the heel formula of Ric Flair. Ric worked hard to augment his opponents strengths at every turn. He cut interviews that made his opponent look like legit threats and played up their abilities. He showed ass in his matches, having to resort to cheating to win. Even in losing his opponents like Sting, Luger, Dusty Rhodes, Magnum TA, Nikita, El Gigante, Pillman etc. always came out looking stronger...having been robbed by the dirtiest player in the game. In other words they remain viable characters after their programs with Flair are finished They still are able to effectively garner fan interest and enjoy marketability for future runs. There is life after the Flair programs.

Compare this with the Triple H formula. In a series of matches Hunter defeats Eugene on PPV, dominated a Raw match, and then destroyed him with virtually no offense in a cage match blow off. He did this straight uplike he was nothing, busting him open, dominating the match and then putting him out of action and on the shelf. In contrast to Flair's opponents, the Eugene character ends the program a pathetic joke with all his heat sucked out of him. Hunter wins again, just like he did with Kane, RVD, Steiner, Booker T and Goldberg. The cycle never ends. Then people wonder why nobody takes these buried characters seriously anymore.

The Jeff Hardy remark is in regards to the infamous IC Title switch done between Jeff and Trips on Raw April 16, 2001. On Smackdown four days earlier Jeff scored the upset and defeated HHH for the IC belt. The rematch was infamous because it was a completely unprofessional jobber squash. Instead of putting the kid over and making him look strong, Jeff was given virtually ZERO offense, pedigreed and pinned cleanly. When the match was over he was then beaten down and even whipped. Instead of looking out for Jeff and putting the interests of the company's need to build new stars first, Hunter made it look like his loss was a fluke and Hardy (like Eugene and everyone else) was not in his league. This is not the way to build new stars, it's a formula for burying them. Yet the reality is this is the status quo of how he operates.

Below is a link to a match description of the infamous match between the two. It's a text book on how to make someone look like a fluke Champion, complete with an in ring whipping in the blow off match (unbelievable). Remember when reading this, this is the BLOW OFF...NO ADDITIONAL MATCHES BETWEEN THE TWO, THE HUNTER/HARDY PROGRAM ENDS WITH THIS!!!!

Courtesy of slashwrestling.com/raw/010416.html

WWF INTERCONTINENTAL CHAMPIONSHIP: THE NEW MAN (with Stephanie Can't Act & Castrol presents Backlash & "WWF: The Music [Volume 5]" CD cover) v. JEFF HARDY (with Lita) - instant prediction: Hardy by DQ after Triple H disembowls him. Matt Hardy watches on the monitor; WE watch Matt Hardy. HERE WE GO: Gutshot and HUGE right by Triple H to start. Hardy rolls to the corner. Right, stomp, stomp, stomp, stomp, stomp, stomp, stomp, stomp, stomp, stomp, stomp, sotmp, stomp, stomp, stomp - shoving away "Back from Vacation" Earl Hebner. Up by the hair, right hand puts Hardy down. Head to the buckle. Shoulder in the abdomen - and again. One more shoulder - make it two - no, wait, make it six (I'm too lazy to type "shoulder," six times) - Hebner pulls him off. After letting Hardy writhe a bit, H picks him up - into the opposite corner - boots up by Hardy, but H ducks the clothesline - pressing him up and letting him drop. Bigtime hairpull - right to the forehead, right, right, right, truth Double Feature of the press'n'drop. H with a British Bulldog half hour suplex. Out of the corner with a running kneedrop. 1, 2, Hardy kicks out. I think H is happy he didn't stay down for three, though. Right, right, right. Going for another half hour suplex...but Hardy returns to his feet! Hardy with a right, right, right, right, off the ropes...but into a powerslam. H tosses him through the ropes and goes out after him. Hebner follows so he doesn't have to start counting to ten. H drops Hardy facefirst on the STEEL steps. Lita cowers as H looks her way. H rolls in, Hebner back in, H rolls back out. Classic. H puts Hardy back in and now we're all back in. Hardy takes a swing - another - right lands, right, off the ropes but H takes his head off with a lariat. 1, 2, NO! H hooks the leg again - 1, 2, no! H puts him in the ropes - and applies the abdominal stretch - and now *grabbing the ropes for leverage*. I love that. Triple H *is* the freakin' MAN, yo. H now using his right hand to pound on the exposed ribs - and his left hand to tug on the hair. H laying in the badmouth as well. Hardy trying to find the strength to break the hold...but again, H goes to the top rope. Hebner sees it this time, though, and kicks it away - into a Hardy hiptoss! But H is right back on him with a knee in the gut to stop his run. Picking up Hardy...but Hardy hits a sitout jawbreaker! (H tries to sell it early, and ends up having to sell it twice - heh) Right by Hardy, right, into the roeps, head down, H hits the facebuster. 1, 2, Lita pulls H off of him! Stephanie over - Lita blocks the slap! The chase is on...until H rolls out between them, stopping Lita in her tracks. She quickly backs off - H back in the ring. And now Stephanie is up on the apron to chat with Hebner. H tosses Hardy out. Hardy has the belt - right by H - Hardy *clocks* him over the commentary table and into the laps of Heyman and Ross! Matt digs it. When H finally frees himself of commentator entanglements, Hardy posts him - then rams his head into the steps...twice! Into the commentary table! And finally rolls him back in. Hardy going up top...MISSILE DROPKICK! Cover - 1, 2, H kicks out. First near fall for Hardy but H has too much left. into the corner nu J, Hardy up and over, dropkicking the back, schoolboy - another 2 for Hardy! Hardy off the ropes, gutshot by H, trying a Pedigree Hardy counters into a backslide - 1, 2, NO!! Off the ropes, Hardy ducks the clothesline and hits a flying headscissors! Hardy up top again - corkscrew moonsault...is easily stepped aside by Triple H. H goes to the corner - second rope - Hardy dropkicks him, sitting him on the top turnbuckle. Hardy going up top - Frankensteiner! Hardy going up top to try the swantonbomb...H JUST rolls out of the way of that. We look backstage at Matt again - but this time, Austin is back...and up from behind with a STEEL chair! A few shots and a few stomps - and an oilcan in the back for good measure. Austin leaves Matt laying...we look back to Lita, who has seen this on the EntertainmentTron and now doesn't know whether to stay with Jeff or go check on Matt - finally, she decides to head up the ramp...only to find STONE COLD STEVE AUSTIN emerge from backstage at the top of the ramp with a sinister look. Lita backs off as Austin slowly stalks... Oops, Triple H just got a pin somehow. Ladies and gentlemen, we have a new, four-time intercontinental champion. (11:28) Thankfully, we quickly get a truth Double Feature which shows Triple H hitting the Pedigree and hooking the leg. Austin is in and his belt is off. Knee in the groin by H and Austin is WHIPPING him, WHIPPING him like a government mule. MATT HARDY is out but H is ready with the chair - WHACK! Austin starts whipping *him* as well. Another chairshot for Jeff as Austin chokes him with his belt. Now they're trading off - Matt gest the chair while Austin tugs on the belt around Jeff's neck. Suddenly, their eyes turn to Lita, who is crying on the outside. They DARE her to get in the ring one more time - and then the decision is made for her as Stephanie rolls her into the ring. Just before they get a chance to repeat last Monday once again, the lights go out! "Rollin'" hits...

[chrismystery]

Talison said:

You make an interesting point, Smoke. I would somewhat agree with you. But I think it depends on who you talk to.

My older brother hates Triple H and he continues to watch because he loves wrestling. He's always loved wrestling. He's not going to stop watching for one man.

I myself like Triple H, I think he's a good performer. I do think we get to much of him. But I watch because I also love wrestling. Hunter isn't at the top of my list. And WWE has given me a lot to like this year with my two current favorite wrestlers, Eddie & Benoit, both holding World Titles. And being of Mexican decent I was very happy to see Eddie become the first Mexican World Champion.

Still, what I like about wrestling can usually be seen in th undercard. And it seems it's ben that way long before Hunter even started calling himself Triple H. Definately before he became a major player.

I was also happy to see both of them win. But, I thought Eddie was from Texas.

[Talison]

He is from Texas. I'm from Indiana. We're both of Mexican decent, and proud of it.

[chrismystery]

Talison said:

He is from Texas. I'm from Indiana. We're both of Mexican decent, and proud of it.

Very cool. My wife is from Mexico City so my future kids will be too.

[Talison]

To me it means a lot. I'm not sure if Italians felt the same way when Bruno won the title or Arabs felt the same when Iron Sheik won, or any other ethnicity at any given time "one of thier own" became champion. But speaking for myself there have been a lot of great World Champions, but none that look like me and my family. We had Pedro Morales, the first Latin Champion. But he was Puerto Rican. And we were proud of him. But my brothers and I just felt that much better when the guy from El Paso, who's parents came here from Mexico (like ours) and who had worked so hard to get where he is was elevated to the posistion of Champion.

To me it's one of the things that makes being a wrestling fan special, despite where your from. We can complain about creative, politics, whatever. But nothing beats seeing a guy you respect and identify with go out there, work hard, and be acknowledged for it.

[Big Bri]

Yeah, like Chris Benoit. I didn't think they's let him have the belt for too long, but the image of him & Eddie at WMXX will live in my mind for a LONG time! Those guys deserved it!

[Joe]

Guest-Like said:

The Jeff Hardy remark is in regards to the infamous IC Title switch done between Jeff and Trips on Raw April 16, 2001. On Smackdown four days earlier Jeff scored the upset and defeated HHH for the IC belt. The rematch was infamous because it was a completely unprofessional jobber squash. Instead of putting the kid over and making him look strong, Jeff was given virtually ZERO offense, pedigreed and pinned cleanly. When the match was over he was then beaten down and even whipped. Instead of looking out for Jeff and putting the interests of the company's need to build new stars first, Hunter made it look like his loss was a fluke and Hardy (like Eugene and everyone else) was not in his league. This is not the way to build new stars, it's a formula for burying them. Yet the reality is this is the status quo of how he operates.

I remember Hardy's win and Triple H's rematch very vividly. I agree. H smashed him. It was domination. It did make Jeff Hardy look like a fluke champion.

I was a huge fan of the Hardy Boyz as a tag team, and for period of time, Jeff Hardy stole every show he was on.

Now, with that out of the way, would Jeff Hardy ever be percieved as anything other than a fluke champion? That is just the nature of the business. For all of his daredevil antics, there was a big gap in public perception of the two, be it because of stature, appearance, ability, whatever. This is a fact. Some situations, regardless of how hard a company tries to sell them, just will not go over. A perfect example of this is when Vince Russo (I think the New Blood/Millionaire's Club was his idea, although I may be wrong) decideed to put Billy Kidman over by having him feud with Hulk Hogan. This was a disaster. THe main reason was because, no matter how great a perfomer Kidman was and still is, the American public weren't buying him as a serious threat to Hogan, especially with the real-life, Terry Bollea crap they threw into things.

[Like Watching Paint Dry]

Believe me Joe, I'm no fan of Jeff Hardy nor am I a believer in him as a viable headliner. He's clearly done more harm to himself through poor choices and personal demons than anyone with-in the business could ever do.

My beef is with the fact that its purely incompetent booking to bury people like that. There's just no logical reason to purposely book a popular young star in a way that has him come off as a fluke Champion.

Personally I think what was done to Jericho was even worse because he was 'blatantly' over, yet Hunter went out and cleanly defeated him on back to back to back PPV's during his initial face run. What's the logic in doing things like this to the talent? It tells people not to take guys like Jericho (and Hardy and RVD and Booker, etc.) seriously because they are not on the same level. Then when main eventers like Hunter are injured and you 'need' fans to care about semi-main event guys, the audience is indifferent and doesn't buy them as top stars. It's very short sighted and not geared with the future in mind.

Agreed on your Kidman example. Putting someone over isn't the same thing as having the fans accept it. In the case with Hogan, nobody bought Kidman as a star on his level, and Hogan doing the job made fans just apathetic to the entire program and made them wish it never happened. There was no 'elevation' in the minds of the audience because for whatever reason they didn't buy Kidman as a top guy.

For the record neither did I.

[Joe]

I definitely agree with you about Chris Jericho. This is one of those cases where a smallish wrestler is looked at on the same level as much bigger performers. With the way fans view Jericho and the overall package he brigs to table, there is no way Jericho should get mauled by anyone.

I also understand your point about Hardy, Paint. It just seemed like Hardy could never cross the line from being a guy who would throw himself off a balcony to being a guy who could go out and be a legitimate, big-time wrestler. Even when he had the angle with the Undertaker, he couldn't really advance as a singles star. He darn near beat him in a ladder match, which I believe to be one of the greatest TV matches in history, and he couldn't cross the line I spoke of. The only reason I can think for this is that his character, image, or persona has never changed. Even now, he still comes off like, "Jeff Hardy, one-half of the Hardy Boyz". Matt moved on because he changed, Jeff never has.

[purplesteve6]

Mark my words: Matt Hardy WILL be WWE champion someday.

[Chris Ingersoll]

purplesteve6 said:

Mark my words: Matt Hardy WILL be WWE champion someday.

Agreed.

For about a week. Maybe two. He'll have a longer reign than Kane's, at any rate (unless Kane gets another run before then).

[Big Bri]

I sure hope not. Matt Hardy looks like a spoiled 12-year-old. I wish him a LONG recovery from knee surgery, as RAW without him is a lot better.