The Keltner List, GWF-style

[Pete]

Quick background: In his book, The Politics of Glory, baseball scribe Bill James writes about a letter he received from the Committee to Induct Ken Kelter into Baseball's Hall of Fame--Keltner being a pretty good but not otherworldly 3B for the Indians in the 1940's. It was a lobbying effort filled with cherry-picking of statistics and not-exactly-reliable anecdotes, and it prompted James to come up with a list of questions designed to organize thoughts and prompt discussion of what makes a Hall of Famer. The Keltner List.

The List is a fine tool to, as I said, collect thoughts, but it's not something that you "score": "He's a 'yes' to 11 questions, so he's in."

"What does this have to do with COTG?" Well, I think you can figure out where I'm going, but I think this will be a helpful process to focus discussion and get people thinking.

(And yes, there is a "Gordy List" for discussion of the Observer's Wrestling HOF. That was another inspiration for this, but as that list goes into things like drawing power, working ability, and other things that aren't nearly as relevant to what is ostensibly a "real" sport in COTG, this list is closer to James'.)

So presenting my attempt at the COTG Hall of Fame's...er, let me think...the Pulsar List.

1. Was he ever the best wrestler in the galaxy?
2. Was he the best wrestler in his federation?
3. Was he the top wrestler of the Hero or Villain team? Was he the top wrestler--the "ace"--of his stable/group?
4. Was he the top wrestler of his class/division? (i.e., Cruiserweight Title, Heavy Metal/Hardcore title, Women's title)
5. How many years did he have as a top wrestler?
6. Was he a good wrestler before his prime? Was he a good wrestler after his prime?
7. Was he involved in a number of memorable feuds, matches, or angles?
8. Was he effective in multiple roles and match types throughout his career? I.e., was he a versatile wrestler?
9. What titles, tournaments, battle royals, etc. did he win? What was the importance of his reigns?
10. Did he win many honors and awards in your fed?
11. Was he a top tag team wrestler?
12. Was he innovative?
13. Was he influential?
14. Did he uphold the standards of competition and sportsmanship that any real HOF will consider? In a kayfabe sense: Did he do what was best for his federation?
15. Is there any reason to believe that this wrestler is better or worse than he appears?
16. What is our lasting memory of this wrestler?

As I have time, I'll run through a GWFer through this to give you an idea of how this all works.

Keltner List: Dave Parker

Gordy List: Shawn Michaels

[Chewey]

Great list, Pete.

Now, just because I've been the one making the big stink about these guys, I request that you run both Lord Nexus and Animal Pack through this list.

[Pete]

aaron168 said:

Great list, Pete.

Now, just because I've been the one making the big stink about these guys, I request that you run both Lord Nexus and Animal Pack through this list.

You want me to run a tag team off the bat?? Aw, man, that fouls up everything...

Well, Nexus seems like a good enough place to start.

1. Was he ever the best wrestler in the galaxy?

I'd say not.

2. Was he the best wrestler in his federation?

He may have a case from 2084-2086: he was just entering his prime while Star Warrior and Thantos had not quite hit theirs. Still, he's dealing with competition from Commander Sam and later the debuting Wolf, not to mention Krakan. If he ever was, it didn't last long.

3. Was he the top wrestler of the Hero or Villain team? Was he the top wrestler--the "ace"--of his stable/group?

Never a Hero leader as a wrestler, what with Star Warrior and Alpha Force around, but unquestionably the ace of the Fighting Titans, even when in a full-time tag team. Until his semi-retirement in the late 2090's, he was the face of the group and very likely its best singles wrestler throughout its existence. And even with Trainer Jim around, Nexus always seemed to be the leader of the team.

As a manager, Nexus' triumph over Commando Sam's squad in the 2113 Sudden Death tournament--as well as the rise of Scion Nexus as a major star--pretty much established him as the leader of the top Hero team. He would remain as such until his departure from the GWF.

4. Was he the top wrestler of his class/division? (i.e., Cruiserweight Title, Heavy Metal/Hardcore title, Women's title)

This gets an "n/a" from me. Nexus was never a hardcore type, nor was he a cruiser.

5. How many years did he have as a top wrestler?

About twelve. I could give an exact number but my Early Classics booklet is MIA at the present moment (Mike M--help!). Regardless, he hit his peak in either 2086 or '87 and didn't reach a physical decline until 2099. Certainly his longevity as a top competitor is a plus.

6. Was he a good wrestler before his prime? Was he a good wrestler after his prime?

Yes and sort of. As a youngster he was part of an effective tag team with KO Keller and you could argue that he was "past his prime" from around 2095 on--even without an actual card update. By 2099 he was truly past it, but even then his fall wasn't quite as pathetic as that of Dreadnaught, Pegasus, or Omega.

7. Was he involved in a number of memorable feuds, matches, or angles?

He was part of the longest and for my mind the most heated rivalry in the history of the GWF. As Krakan so memorably put it in his 2097 press conference: "Our feud won't die until one of us does!" It didn't quite come to that, but it did rage on and off until Krakan was finally forced from the federation for good. And it only took thirty years.

Omega/Morpheus...Star Warrior/Thantos...Alpha Force/Chaos...Bloodline/Encubus...all top feuds in which the participants had a certain underlying respect and even honor for one another. And you'll notice that all four of those pairs of rivals would end up teaming after their feud commenced. Meanwhile, the Gladiators have made too many enemies to have one long, persistent nemesis, and Monolith hasn't been around long enough. For longevity of a feud combined with sheer visceral hatred, nothing will top Nexus/Krakan.

8. Was he effective in multiple roles and match types throughout his career? I.e., was he a versatile wrestler?

Yes. A fringe (or better, pre-TitanPower) contender for the Heavyweight title and part of a top tag team. Stylewise, he was equally adept technically, power moves (the Titan Drop) and high-flying. And you don't survive a feud with Krakan without knowing how to brawl, too.

9. What titles, tournaments, battle royals, etc. did he win? What was the importance of his reigns?

Nobody's answer for this is going to be the same, unless we want to use the Official Promoter Rankings. I call on Pete Beck if someone wants further details, but Nexus never held the Club Galactica/Promoter Heavyweight title. He did enjoy very brief reigns with the Interplanetary Title and the Galactic Tag Titles, early on in Club Galactica's history.

Nexus was a 2-time Heavyweight title holder for me, though neither reign was particularly notable. TitanPower were perennial Tag Title contenders throughout their existence, with 1 reign of moderate length and one of about 8 months (game-time, not real time). TitanPower was the #1 team in the federation until Brute and Massacre got their first Cleansing.

Nexus did not win any major tournaments or special events that I can recall.

10. Did he win many honors and awards in your fed?

I was never really big on keeping track of awards, but...

The Fighting Titans went a staggering 5-0 in Sudden Death feuds under Nexus' watch, a record that will not be threatened seriously (or even frivolously) in this lifetime.

TitanPower were elected to the original Promoter Hall of Fame in not-exactly-controversial fashion.

11. Was he a top tag team wrestler?

I think we've established that.

12. Was he innovative?

Calling him "The Jackie Robinson of the GWF" is probably pouring it on a bit thick (which I think Joe brought up in another thread)--I would hope that by the 2080's race relations would reach the point that we wouldn't need a "Jackie Robinson"of anything.

But...there is a kernel of it in there. Stepping out of storyline-land for a second, Nexus was originally conceived by Tom as another superhero-type a la Star Warrior. Chuck Carter had a different vision, and I think we can all be thankful that Carter's interpretation of the character won out.

13. Was he influential?

His adopted son was a major force in the GWF, the GWFC, *and* CPC. From my own experience, Scion had an even better career than his father's, at least in terms of in-ring accomplishments. So in that sense, yes.

14. Did he uphold the standards of competition and sportsmanship that any real HOF will consider? In a kayfabe sense: Did he do what was best for his federation?

Like this even needs to be debated. With the quasi-"fall from grace" of Star Warrior and the subsequent rub-off onto Omega, Nexus is easily the purest, most unwavering Hero that the GWF has ever seen.

15. Is there any reason to believe that this wrestler is better or worse than he appears?

I actually think he potentially could have been a major singles star, but was content to stick to tag wrestling after the arrival of Billy Jo Boxer.

16. What is our lasting memory of this wrestler?



"Mr. Simpson, I don't use the word 'Hero' very often...but you are the greatest hero in American history."
--Lionel Hutz, Esq.

See #14. I'm guessing if we took a poll for the Supreme Hero in COTG history--much less the GWF alone--Nexus would come out on top by a country mile. Nexus stood his ground as his contemporaries went through heel turns and personal scandals in the land of the GWF, and as the "real" world of wrestling was going through the Age of the Antihero. Nexus was resolute and unshakeable even as GWF Life and Real Life were not.

Questions? Answers? Objections?

[Chewey]

wow. that was amazing.

[Knapik]

Awesome stuff. As a big Nexus fan, I would agree with the statement that he's the greatest 'pure hero' in GWF history.

[theringmaster]

I also really enjoyed reading! You should do another!

[Aquinas]

Great read....thanks for the thread!

[Wildfire]

Great job here!

[Wildfire]

Great job here!

[Darth Turkish]

Wow. Doing this for each wrestler we disagree with will be exhausting, but at least this is a set of finite criteria that we can judge by.


Nice job, Pete

[GalactiKing]

That was great. Must reading in my opinion.

[LWPD]

pete said:

So presenting my attempt at the COTG Hall of Fame's...er, let me think...the Pulsar List.

1. Was he ever the best wrestler in the galaxy?
2. Was he the best wrestler in his federation?
3. Was he the top wrestler of the Hero or Villain team? Was he the top wrestler--the "ace"--of his stable/group?
4. Was he the top wrestler of his class/division? (i.e., Cruiserweight Title, Heavy Metal/Hardcore title, Women's title)
5. How many years did he have as a top wrestler?
6. Was he a good wrestler before his prime? Was he a good wrestler after his prime?
7. Was he involved in a number of memorable feuds, matches, or angles?
8. Was he effective in multiple roles and match types throughout his career? I.e., was he a versatile wrestler?
9. What titles, tournaments, battle royals, etc. did he win? What was the importance of his reigns?
10. Did he win many honors and awards in your fed?
11. Was he a top tag team wrestler?
12. Was he innovative?
13. Was he influential?
14. Did he uphold the standards of competition and sportsmanship that any real HOF will consider? In a kayfabe sense: Did he do what was best for his federation?
15. Is there any reason to believe that this wrestler is better or worse than he appears?
16. What is our lasting memory of this wrestler?

As I have time, I'll run through a GWFer through this to give you an idea of how this all works.

Keltner List: Dave Parker

Gordy List: Shawn Michaels

This is an excellent conversational tool...and the more of these that are developed...the higher the quality of the finished project. Since each promoter's game play experiences are unique...a great deal of value and insight can be gained even with 'multiple' Pulsar Lists on the same candidate. This format can make for a very comprehensive overview.

Great contribution Pete.

[Chewey]

Okay, so Pete is a little less biased than I am, so I want to see how Animal Pack runs through his test, but I've decided to give it a shot as well.

ANIMAL PACK

BIO:
Battering Ram and Incredible Badger entered the GWF in 2088. While they were not billed as a tag team when they first entered, this promoter (as well as many others) preferred to team the two together from the start (rather, forming an amorphous three-man tandem with Reptillo), in order to challenge the Gladiators of Aethra as the top tag team of the promotion. The two were not an exclusive tag team, as in 2089, Battering Ram directly challenged Spike in order to allow Wolf to concentrate on the then-newcomer Bounty Hunter.

Only upon the arrival of Iron Mane in 2090 were Battering Ram and Incredible Badger known as the Animal Pack. Animal Pack continued to feud with the Gladiators for the rest of the year until 2091, when the Gladiators moved on to join the Unholy Alliance with Thantos and Krakan, while the AniMen faced the growing team of the Gamehunters. It was at this time that Amazonia decided to pair Incredible Badger with Iron Mane as the Beasts of Burden, in order to allow Battering Ram to pursue singles action (presumably because of Iron Mane’s flop as a singles wrestler feuding with Spike).

After two years, Battering Ram and Incredible Badger returned as the Animal Pack in 2093, where they continued to team up through the first Sudden Death tournament, until Incredible Badger retired after 2097.

In 2094, W.A.R. made a huge impact on the GWF and quickly challenged the Gladiators. Animal Pack moved on to face the Galactic Rebels, primarily focusing on the Cosmic Forces for the next two years. After the AniMen of Andromeda crushed the Galactic Rebels in Sudden Death and restored Doomsday Creature to Reptillo, Battering Ram soon showed signs of being disgruntled with tag action, although Animal Pack remained together until Incredible Badger retired, taking on a midcard feud with the Pillars of Power.

Incredible Badger easily cemented his status as one of the top tag specialists in the early years of the GWF after the breaking of the Galaxian Code. Battering Ram’s career floundered after Animal Pack permanently disbanded, though his career would continue for many more years.

[Chewey]

1. Was he ever the best wrestler in the galaxy?
It’s hard to say that any team other than the Gladiators were the “best” team of the early years, as the Gladiators easily entrenched themselves as the team to beat since they arrived in the GWF in 2086 until they were sent back to Aethra after the Gladiator Civil War. However, they did make a name for themselves when they challenged the Gladiators head on in 2088, and continued to take on the team of Brute & Massacre until the W.A.R. team appeared in 2094.

2. Was he the best wrestler in his federation?
The GWF was the main promotion at this time, so see #1.

3. Was he the top wrestler of the Hero or Villain team? Was he the top wrestler--the "ace"--of his stable/group?
Battering Ram and Incredible Badger were the staple of the original AniMen of Andromeda, and it is no coincidence that the team disbanded after Incredible Badger’s retirement. However, they were primarily overshadowed by the unpredictable hero, Wolf. A case can be made that Battering Ram was the de facto ace of the stable in 2091 when Wolf moved on to the Champions of the Galaxy and Iron Man failed to live up to the hype of his arrival. Unfortunately, this “ace” status was soon forgotten the next year when Wolf returned in 2092.

4. Was he the top wrestler of his class/division? (i.e., Cruiserweight Title, Heavy Metal/Hardcore title, Women's title)
See #1. There wasn’t really a secondary division for tag teams.

5. How many years did he have as a top wrestler?
Animal Pack were arguably among the top two or three teams until 2090. They continued to be formidable contenders for the tag team belts until 2094, when teams such as the New Order and the Mercenaries entered the tag team scene. In later years, while their skills never really deteriorated, other teams such as the return of the GameMasters and Superiority Complex had eclipsed them in terms of both star power and title shots.

6. Was he a good wrestler before his prime? Was he a good wrestler after his prime?
Animal Pack entered the GWF in the prime of both men’s careers. After Incredible Badger retired, Battering Ram continued to wrestle as Ram, but was quickly lost in the shuffle of newer, fresher stars.

7. Was he involved in a number of memorable feuds, matches, or angles?
Animal Pack will perhaps be remembered as the first real threat to the Gladiators (with all respect to the Greek Gods). Their role in the AniMen feud with Bounty Hunter and Reynard B. Guile were little more than supporting characters in the feud between Wolf & Amazonia against Bounty Hunter & Guile. However, their most memorable angle might have been the re-conversion of Doomsday Creature to Reptillo, in which case Doomsday Creature/Reptillo was the true star of the story.

8. Was he effective in multiple roles and match types throughout his career? I.e., was he a versatile wrestler?

9. What titles, tournaments, battle royals, etc. did he win? What was the importance of his reigns?
They were an important tag team in the early years of Classic GWF, but never really jumped the hurdle of the Gladiators the way the New Order and W.A.R. did in 2095.

10. Did he win many honors and awards in your fed?
I was never really a huge awards person, and I didn’t subscribe to the contemporary fan newsletters of the day.

11. Was he a top tag team wrestler?
12. Was he innovative?
Incredible Badger was the first wrestler to wrestle exclusively as a tag wrestler, and was very successful at it. And while the tag team format of one offensive wrestler and one defensive wrestler didn’t really solidify until the introduction of the Cosmic Forces and the Gladiator Cleansing, the ANDROMEDA DROP will always be remembered as one of the most potent tag finishers.

13. Was he influential?
Every team patterned themselves after Animal Pack, including the Gladiators. However, the Pack was never asked to step up as top draws by Star Warrior or Omega, despite their admirable challenges against the Gladiators. In 2091, Omega preferred to put the new and inexperienced team of the GalactiCops against the Gladiators in the War Games rather than the Pack. Still, no team challenged the Gladiators as nobly as the Animal Pack for years, at least not until the arrival of the New Order.

14. Did he uphold the standards of competition and sportsmanship that any real HOF will consider? In a kayfabe sense: Did he do what was best for his federation?
Incredible Badger lingered on for two more years after his interest in wrestling started to wane. I believe that although his skills were not really deteriorating, he could see that the legacy of Animal Pack was quickly diminishing as newer teams like the New Order and the Mercenaries came to prominence.

15. Is there any reason to believe that this wrestler is better or worse than he appears?
The tag division was fairly weak when Battering Ram and Incredible Badger entered the GWF, when many of the tag wrestlers consistently wrestled in singles matches as well. While they helped build the Gladiator legacy by giving the Glads a challenger to overcome, they did not really overcome any challengers themselves, except for maybe the Cosmic Forces, who they admittedly handled pretty decisively. However, the strength of the division should not be overlooked, as we can all remember that the Smoking Gunns also once dominated the tag division of the mid-90s WWF. Still, it is not necessarily Animal Pack's fault that their challengers rarely stepped up against them, nor that everyone else in the galaxy wanted a crack at the Gladiators.

16. What is our lasting memory of this wrestler?
The AniMen of Andromeda continue to exist as a stable today. And with Wolf constantly playing his loner gig and treating the AniMen as the loyal wife that he could always go back to after having flings with other teams, Reptillo never accomplishing much as an AniMan, and Iron Mane flopping after his first year in the GWF, the AniMen legacy is easily Animal Pack’s legacy. They were the first team to give the Gladiators a run for their money, and perhaps this is the legacy that they will be remembered best for. In their ten years of on-and-off tag teaming, they were at the top end of the division their first five years, but fell more towards the middle of the pack in their second five years.

[mikefortune]

Hey Pete great list, I see the Air Force gives you plenty of time to wrok on you GWF .

It was good to include a question on feuds. If a wrestler or tag team gets mired down in a feud with a superior foe that can easily squash them. I had Star Warrior and Thantos feud for 8 years and Thantos won 6 lost 1 drew 1. Staw Warrior might have won more titles if he wasen't facing one of the greatest wrestlers of the era. Think how great he might have been if S.W. had to fight Krakan. I think the Animal Pack might have fit into this catagory.

On one hand a feud can show how dominate a wrestler/tag team is or how close a wrestler/tag team was to glory and HOF.

[Pete]

mikefortune said:

Hey Pete great list, I see the Air Force gives you plenty of time to wrok on you GWF .

That's the other Pete.

(This is Fusco, not Beck.)

[jefft]

Great job on the lists for both Pete and Chewey.

[MikeMcKinney]

That was a great read..

[mikefortune]

Sorry Pete. The list just sounded to Pete Beckish so I thought of him but I also remember Beck has his last name on his replies.

[Chad Olson]

mikefortune said:

Sorry Pete. The list just sounded to Pete Beckish so I thought of him but I also remember Beck has his last name on his replies.

Mike, you just made my day!