What's the point of the CPC?

[floydthebarber]

Alright, since the last post got a little off topic, and people are saying there aren't any good CPC discussion topics, I'll pose this question to you all.

What is the point of the CPC?

I ask this because from what I've read from other promoters, it seems there is a divide between those who play and prefer GWF and those who play and prefer CPC. I've read numerous comments from people saying that the CPC is not and cannot be considered competition for the GWF due to the GWF's size and its status in the Galaxy. The CPC seems to be the ECW of the 22nd century. Which begs the question...what is the point? As we all know, ECW was exciting and offered an alternative to the WWF/WCW, but when it was all said and done, despite attempts to play with the big boys, ECW was never going to rival those two feds. Is the CPC in the same boat?

My feeling is that if the CPC is to offer me any long lasting interest, it has to at least be trying to compete with the GWF like it was during the GWF/CPC wars that set the whole thing off. I'm not far enough along to know what Colby's motivation was to form the CPC, but would he be happy with so many promoters, even the ones who prefer the CPC saying that its not a competition? That the CPC is a separate entity of itself, whos promoters are almost fanatical in their disdain for GWF wrestlers coming over to the CPC, and having home grown CPC talent go to the GWF?

If this is the case, its no wonder there is such a problem getting people to play both sets equally...and why the GWF faithful outnumber the CPC players…or am I wrong in I disagreeumption? Do most promoters who are far enough along play both sets with an equal passion? Or does it come down to GWF promoters not wanting to get into running another promotion? Do some people only play CPC and ignore the GWF?

I'm curious cause I think the idea that Mark is more of a storyline writer who focuses on managers and back room type stuff and Tom character/wrestler driven writer makes for interesting discussion. Like say, if you are a GWF only fan, and had the chance to run the CPC for a year, what would YOU do? Or if you are a CPC fan, are you so loyal to the CPC that you despise the idea of having CPC wrestlers trying to compete on a bigger stage? What would YOU change in the GWF? Is there even a need for the CPC to compete on a bigger stage? Is the cult like following the CPC enough to keep Colby, the CPC wrestlers and most importantly the promoters happy?

Bear in mind, these questions are coming from someone who's just about to start 2090...so many may see me as simply someone who just 'doesn't understand' the dynamics of this issue...but I'm curious, as I feel a major reason for me seeing the early years through is so that I can play the GWF/CPC years as it really seems to be a very volatile and exciting time in the history of COTG and I for one am looking forward to it should I make it that far without caving in and picking up 2119 and starting 'fresh'!

Discuss...

[Mr. Jimmyface]

It's a different flavor of wrestlers. That's all. It's the same deal with LOW. There are just three different federations of wrestling talent for you to chose from. W

While LOW is pretty self explanatory, the CPC is an offshoot of the GWF. In 2105, Magnus Colby took his Team CPC and actually made them into a legally recognised wrestling organization that was able to hold titles and cards. Basically, think of what would happen if the nWo wasn't just a group, but rather had their own titles and shows. From 2105 - 2108, they existed under the same roof until a court order forced the two groups apart.

In 2110, during the wrestling ban, the CPC was the only group running shows in Dimension K, while the GWF became the GWFC in Dimension Y. They have since earned a core audience of fans.

Again, it's all about a different flavor - no better, no worse. Just another option for you, the consumer

[Like Watching Paint Dry]

Good question Floyd. There was a time before I ever laid eyes on a CPC edition that I too was curious....and even now I often wonder what the real point of CPC actually is.

First the positives:

1. CPC gives established promoters, who have EVERY GWF set the ability to play out CPC storylines.

2. Mark Ashby has a distinct writing style that some may find appealing, and having options is a good thing.

Those are the two main positives as I see them.

Rather than launch into a barrage of negatives, I'll 'paint a picture' of how CPC started that will better inform my perspective.

You as a GWF player will meet a character in 2092 called Magnus Colby. He is not a wrestler, but a persona that will be relevant in Tom's storylines for many editions to come. I don't want to give you any spoilers that will detract from the fun Floyd, but needless to say, the C in CPC stands for Colby.

Once you hit the 2105 edition, Tom introduces the CPC as part of his storyline arc. Personally I found this era to be the best work Tom's ever done, surpassing everything both before, and since. Needless to say Floyd, it was the popularity of Tom's writing during this period that gave birth to the idea of creating a special set called CPC Classics 2109 written by Tom. He has done other Classics sets in the past, and did not disappoint.

Now here's where things get tricky. A year later, the CPC becomes a regular part of the COTG universe, written now by Mark Ashby. The CPC assumes the timeline of the current GWF, and even makes use of GWF characters from previous sets.

Now obviously no two writers are the same. As I see it, Ashby's style is focused on logical detail & episodic storylines over and above the development of complex characters that (which is Tom's forte'). As a reader, Ashby's writing doesn't appeal to me personally and have have discontinued buying the CPC product.

What are CPC's negatives:

1. Lack of history: when Tom reintroduced CPC as a Classics set, it was done in such a way where it had LOST many of the characters that made it popular during the 2105-8 years. So basically what made people like the storyline, was no longer a featured part of the new product.

The CPC sets also have a tendency to lose potential breakout original characters, as they eventually go to the GWF. Not to spoil things, but you'll see this once you buy the sets.

2. Illusive: As already mentioned, CPC was born as part of the GWF 2105-8 storyline. Until the day you reach this period (and in many cases GWF sets beyond) it is unaccessible to you. Were you to buy a package of CPC sets tomorrow, you'd be sad to discover that much of CPC's roster would not be available to you.

It would be like buying a puzzle with pieces missing. In order to make things fit together, you need a great deal of GWF sets.

3. A tendency toward one dimensional characters: This is probably the biggest reason why you'll hear complaints from other players. Tom has a gifted style of writing that has spoiled his loyal followers. Characters like Wolf, Star Warrior, Thantos, Omega, Chaos, and so many others are literally brought to life through his writing. This is not easy task and is quite an accomplishment.

Mark has yet to show the same ability, or even desire to put an emphasis on doing likewise. Maybe it's not fair to expect that of him...he has a right to different creative goals and perhaps it's not fair to judge him on standards he's not trying to achieve? The only problem I see arising is when certain fans pretend that the product is not impacted by these differences..because it most certainly is.

So in a nutshell Floyd, that's where CPC stands. If you check previous posts on this forum, you'll find examples of most of what I've covered such as people complaining about a lack of character development for Mensar & Puma. You'll also find a small but loyal band of long time players who enjoy Mark's writing.

That's CPC or ya!

[pravusdeus]

See the way I always thought was that the CPC was a spin off show of GWF, and you need both together to complete the storyline ... the only problem is Tom always shoots the CPC down, its almost like he seems to have the CPC to give fans more storyline for the characters they loved, but lets face it the CPC is a minor league in the grand scheme of things and GWF is too all mighty. Which I detest, storyline wise I like the CPC better, the GWF is too cocky and all that and I dont like the attitude that there all established and stuff.

I really wish the CPC was more of an equal than a minor fed. Sorry, Im ranting but thats the vibe I got and I would much rather see two equal competing feds than one that everyone says is just the greatest fed ever and nothing ever ever ever ever can topple it.

[Chris Ingersoll]

Another factor is that, with the exception of a few years, we've been along with the CPC for it's entire ride. Unlike the GWF, which we picked up in mid-stream (and come 2119 others may do so again), we've seen the CPC develop from over-ambitious GWF stable/faction to fully-fledged federation, along with all the growing pains involved therein. 2119 will be the CPC's 10th "anniversary" as an independent fed (why has no one mentioned this? Then again, no one mentioned the 40th anniversary of the GWF in 2114, so what the hey.); the federation is still very "young", especially for one still shrugging off its "GWF cast-off" roots (which the CPC is, and Mark would be among the first to admit this). That creates a lot of sentimental attachment for many people, myself included.

The "point" of the CPC when compared to the GWF is exactly the same as the "point" of NWA:TNA in relation to WWE: not competition, but variety. And, like the real-world "second-rate" feds, it's also a place where neglected talent can be given a place to shine. Of course, some people may see this is it just being a refuge for GWF cast-offs, but you can't please everybody.

[thefamoustommyz]

See, to me the CPC and GWF is like WCW and WWE...except instead of "wrestling" and "sports entertainment" it's "wrestling" and "borderline galactic warfare"...

Is the CPC #2? Yes. But sheer starpower and history is the only thing keeping the gap so wide.

After all, look at the stars at the top of each fed the last few years...who really thinks that Aegis, Murdok, Valour and Godsend (well, okay, maybe Godsend) are putting more butts in seats than Jack of Diamonds, Mensar, Raven and Puma?

The only CPC stars poached by the GWF so far has been Phantasy & The Troubleshooters...and most people figured at the time that it legitimized the CPC, not hurt it...it wasn't like the CPC picking up an aging GWF veteran, but the GWF actually saw the need to go after CPC talent.

Of course, "aging GWF veterans" Raven, Colossus and JoD have had some of the best performances of their career in the CPC...while Mike Fortune and Mensar still have big futures ahead of them, and the Penthouse Punks made people completely forget about the Upstart Punks.

I thought Mark did a fine job of restoring the focus to the ring during 2116-2117 when Colby & Ishida's boardroom battle was being fought under the minitournament rules.

Lim Dist NaFon was a plot device used to make Jack of Diamonds into the undeniable babyface hero of the CPC.

The other Group of Seven that have anything left to do with the CPC all have cards or are getting cards in the next set (Tiberius Prell). The main reason we never got a GROUP OF SEVEN "commissioner card" was because Mark just didn't have the room with the smaller set size.

Sure, some of the CPC guys have been left without personalities...but look at Paladin, Petarra, Tek...heck, Encubus, Bloodline & Mensar were all shuffled way behind Cordanus & Thantos during the Takeover years.

Shylock, Saboteur and especially Prince Zed have at least as much personality as Euritar.

Granted, Holy War are bland as toast...but then, they're supposed to be. What's Stars & Stripes' excuse? =P

On the flipside, I love Dante, Payback, Vin Strutter, Amazing Mann, Gunnar, Thayne, Darwin's Legacy and many more.

Frankly, no one at any era of the GWF or CPC touches the "Golden Years" and I DON'T mean the Classics years...I mean Star Warrior, Thantos, Wolf, Spike, Chaos, Matador, Alpha Force, Brute, Massacre...for my money, that may be the best era of wrestling ever, real or fantasy.

But I digress...the GWF and CPC are both fantastic today. I'm in 2116, and Jack of Diamonds & Gunnar have stunned everyone by becoming one of the top tag teams, Gunnar has the Lunar title and JoD has stormed his way through the ranks to win the CPC title. Over in the GWF, Amazing Mann is duplicating Godsend's rookie year by p!ssing off everyone and beating every babyface under the sun, but just falling shy of the Galaxian title.

Sometimes, both feds are just HOT for me, and sometimes I'm trudging through the CPC to get to the GWF...sometimes, it's the other way around.

Just my take.

[tystates]

I'll weigh in with my take on things. First, I don't play a CPC fed. Just don't have time. I would if I could.

I envision the GWF and CPC as in competition with each other and for me the CPC would be #2. But they are trying to compete in with the in-ring product. Even when there was the WWF and WCW, and going back even more the WWF, NWA and AWA, there was a clear #1, 2 and 3. The GWF is #1 -- longevity, star power, fan loyalty, the CPC is a close second in my view.

I don't see it as a cast off fed for old GWF stars, although it will be good when all the past GWF wrestlers are gone from the CPC but they serve a good purpose right now.

Occasionally I use a couple CPC wrestlers in the GWF and work a story around them. I like Puma and have had in the GWF, at least part-time, for a number of years. Right now I'm using Paragon, Holocaust & Colossus in the GWF because they went to the finals of the 32 team GWF Six-Man tag team title tournament. They have not won those belts yet, but Paragon has gotten a title shot at Thunder, but lost that one too. When I'm running big tournaments or something I will use the CPC cards before any bootleg ones I have.

I like the fanatical fans of this game but sometimes they just lose sight of everything. There is no reason to completely bash the CPC or the GWF and seem like your quoting scripture in saying it's second rate or second to known. Decide how you see the two groups in your game world and go with it.

[Jonathan]

Tommy I think you're unfavorably comparing the GWF's top stars of the past few years when you use Godsend, Murdok, Valour, and Aegis against Raven, Puma, Mensar, and Jack. The top stars of the GWF continue to be Mandrill, Thunder, Wolf until a year ago, and countless others like Bloodline and Euritar. I've said it before and I'll say it again, different strokes for different folks. Let's just (and this isn't directed at anyone in particular) not turn into a "my fed is better than your fed" mentality. They're both for us to enjoy. So let's enjoy them! Thanks Tom and Mark!

[Joe]

I agree that it is rather ridiculous to get into which federation is better than the other. The GWF is meant to be the top federation, period. If it wasn't, the CPC sets would have as many cards as the GWF and Tom would have taken over writing responsibilities for the CPC editions. This does not mean that the CPC does not offer the same level of quality as the GWF. All this shows is that the GWF is the flagship of Champions of the Galaxy.

I play both federations, and I get a great deal of enjoyment out of the CPC. I do not think that the CPC has as many top-flight superstars as the GWF, but I do think that Mark makes up for that by offering a very entertaining storyline every edition.

[GalactiKing]

I've always liked Mark's idea that CPC is more like ECW or SMW than WCW. It's great for an alternate fed.

[HeelofDiamonds]

Troy said:

I've always liked Mark's idea that CPC is more like ECW or SMW than WCW. It's great for an alternate fed.

Exactly. Mind you I'm only in year 2093 of GWF, but the CPC comparisons to ECW rather than WCW just sound so much more exciting to me. ECW never realistically competed with WWF/WWE in terms of which was the biggest promotion with the biggest stars. But IMHO, ECW definately did beat WCW and WWF one way... with the COOLNESS factor.

It's just something that's intangible. And who doesn't root for the underdog?

And biggest stars doesn't necessarily mean the best (or again, the coolest stars). ECW had RVD, Jerry Lynn, Sandman, New Jack, The Triple Threat, Taz, Public Enemy, Raven and the the list goes on. Did some of them leave for the bigger promotions? Sure. But some stayed until the very end... and we loved them for it. No one had a fan/promotion bond like the ECW had (I may be wrong as some as you true wrestling knowledgeble types might know, but you get my meaning). That bond made ECW better than anything else out there for me.

It sounds like CPC has that same bond with it's fans and promoters. That bond is why I'm impatiently itching to get to the start of the CPC v GWF storyline and beyond, so I can be a part of it.

[Interpromotion]

On a related subject, and I think someone may have brought up this point - if so, I apologize - since there seems to be a majority of people who feel that the CPC is not an equal to the GWF, but below it. (the distance of how far below is one that I'm sure could be debated for a long time) Maybe when there are tournaments at conventions albeit Galacticon or any of the cons that the COTG is involved in, maybe there should be a conversion when wrestling a GWF v. CPC guy. Like we have with men v. women. Maybe their power and finishers should decrease a little??

[Trent Lawless]

The said:

See, to me the CPC and GWF is like WCW and WWE...except instead of "wrestling" and "sports entertainment" it's "wrestling" and "borderline galactic warfare"...

That deserves a !

The said:

Lim Dist NaFon was a plot device used to make Jack of Diamonds into the undeniable babyface hero of the CPC.

Absolutely spot on. From the moment I conceived of that character, he was gonna die that way. It was just a matter of incidentals to get from Point A to Point B.

The said:

The main reason we never got a GROUP OF SEVEN "commissioner card" was because Mark just didn't have the room with the smaller set size.

I really wish I could've squeezed this in. I even had a prototype in mind whereby Weissmann and Swinden's votes on title shots and suspensions would be more likely to go with Ishida's and Prell's and Kallo's with Colby, while naFon was always unpredictable. Just one of those "coulda-beens" now.

The said:

Granted, Holy War are bland as toast...but then, they're supposed to be. What's Stars & Stripes' excuse? =P

I've seen the New Beginning handbook, and as long as Tom hasn't changed this part, I don't think I'm giving anything away when I say that American Guy adds something to his gimmick that I personally like a lot! And within a couple sets, you'll see more out of Holy War than their Lance Storm-like qualities, which are of course intentional. But other teams will be taking center stage before that.

To Interpromotion re: "handicapping" CPC cards...Tom always looks over the level of the cards and makes changes when he feels guys are competing at a level above the top GWF guys like Disaster and Bloodline. So they're theoretically sort of "pre-handicapped." He's made card stats longer than I have and I trust his judgment on it. But really any given match just comes down to rolls of the dice, and sometimes one side gets more sixes or snake-eyes than the other!

[Mr. Jimmyface]

I'm glad you brought up the stats on the cards, as I didn't really know how you two worked that out.

I think the cards are very well balanced. As most promoters know, stats are used in my fed to determine who can go for the Heavyweight Championship. In my GWF, there are currently 16 wrestlers, and in the CPC, there are 8. Given the sizes of the federations at present, the cards actually make sense in the scope of balancing the talent roster.

That said, Mark, could you drop us two hints about -

An incoming heavyweight championship contender?

Or...

Any new jobbers (Hey, someone has to love the Rousers and the J.J. Smooths!)

[thefamoustommyz]

Guest-Jonathan said:

Tommy I think you're unfavorably comparing the GWF's top stars of the past few years when you use Godsend, Murdok, Valour, and Aegis against Raven, Puma, Mensar, and Jack. The top stars of the GWF continue to be Mandrill, Thunder, Wolf until a year ago, and countless others like Bloodline and Euritar. I've said it before and I'll say it again, different strokes for different folks. Let's just (and this isn't directed at anyone in particular) not turn into a "my fed is better than your fed" mentality. They're both for us to enjoy. So let's enjoy them! Thanks Tom and Mark!

For what it's worth, I was trying to point out that both feds are great, but have their flaws.

And my logic of using them as the "top guys" was based on their position in the handbook. Atman, in 2117, was TECHNICALLY the top face in the GWF. I like Atman, really...but wow.

And statistically, well, Bloodline, Mandrill and even sometimes Thunder don't do any better for me than Godsend....=)

Again, definitely not bashing either side...just pointing out that both sets stumble and both sets fly.

Tommy

[j]

I read something kinda funny about a week ago. Vince McMahon and the WWE held a press conference about Summer Slam. During an interview someone asked Vince if he thought TNA was competition?

Now of course Vince said "No", but not because WWE is so much larger than TNA. Vince said "TNA is not competition because they are a wrestling company, and we (WWE) are a entertainment business."

Now I find this kinda funny because how would you think guys like Benoit and Angle feel about those comments?

But back on the subject, I see the GWF and CPC offering 2 totally different things. CPC revolves around Colby and the wrestlers. Where the GWF is basically a way of life. This is kinda like if George Bush challenged Osama Bin Ladin to a feud in the WWE. CPC guys have trained to be wrestlers, GWF has guys like the 2nd Realm, 4th Realm, Mandrill, Epoch, Max Shield, and so on. They are not wrestlers, they just guys taking personal problems to the wrestling ring.

[Trent Lawless]

Mr. said:

That said, Mark, could you drop us two hints about -

An incoming heavyweight championship contender?

Or...

Any new jobbers (Hey, someone has to love the Rousers and the J.J. Smooths!)

I'd say Rubicon and the Czar are your best bets for heavyweight contenders, but don't count out Cypher, or even Pendekar.

No real jobbers to speak of, although Grunge will be closest to that description!

[David Bazzy Basnett]

Personally to make wrestling great you need competiton . Look at WWF ? wasn't it better in the wars with WCW & ECW or even WWF v UWF or AWA . Now just one major federation with hardly any publicity on ROH \ NWA-TNA etc . Hasn't WWE gone stale and boring , not as good as it use to be ? .
CPC makes great alternative for the GWF . Personally I like CPC more than GWF (not that I hate the GWF) . Where would wrestlers like Raven / Mace \ Holocaust / Shylock / Brainstorm \ Paragon / etc have been without CPC . Where would the GWF be with Troubleshooters and Phantasy without the CPC ? That is where they started don't forget .

[Obvious]

I'm assuming that Muss, Bomb, and Phantasy would be in the GWF anyway with out the CPC because they were Tom's creation so he would've brought them into the GWF later (like he eventually did) instead of having them start out in the CPC.

[j]

Guest-Obvious said:

I'm assuming that Muss, Bomb, and Phantasy would be in the GWF anyway with out the CPC because they were Tom's creation so he would've brought them into the GWF later (like he eventually did) instead of having them start out in the CPC.

by having them as one of the CPC's top teams for a few years before entering the GWF gave the Troubleshooters some credibility upon entering the GWF. I think that's atleast part of the reason Terminus and Paragon were somewhat failures in the GWF, they were supposed to be huge stars coming in but since we could live their past, like we did the Troubleshooters, they were not received as well.